The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[Lucky Luke 1]

Originally Posted by ChrisJHC

EQ = emotional intelligence

Id never heard of that before.

"Emotional intelligence (otherwise known as emotional quotient or EQ) is the ability to understand, use, and manage your own emotions in positive ways to relieve stress, communicate effectively, empathize with others, overcome challenges and defuse conflict"

Id say mine is healthy.

[UFO]

A good friend of mine who has recently had both jabs was rushed to an ICU 2 weeks after the 2nd jab with a swollen heart, she is now stable, but not in a very good long term position


Although the % may be small, not everyone escapes the Vax unharmed and yes people are also dying.


I am still waiting to hear a really good argument from anyone as to why FIT and HEALTHY children and Young Adults who have a greater short term risk (God knows what the long term risks are, but heart conditions look like one of them) should be forced into taking the vaccine.


Have a quick look at this abstract:


https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1....suppl_1.10712

[RaymondR]

And one of the lessons from WW2 was that involuntary medical treatments of any sort should be abhorred by civilized people.

Don't J walk in Victoria, DD wants your kidneys(just kidding)

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

And one of the lessons from WW2 was that involuntary medical treatments of any sort should be abhorred by civilized people.

Don't J walk in Victoria, DD wants your kidneys(just kidding)

Getting close to Godwin there Raymondo.

Meanwhile back in Melbourne it seems the leading lights amongst the anti-vaxxers are getting bitten on the bum for their trouble.
Looks like the dropkicks , dills, dipsticks , and drongos are starting to feel unwell poor darlings

https://www.crikey.com.au/2021/12/01...-getting-sick/

But wait, its not covid - its something in them contrails!!!

'Another prominent member of anti-vaccine and conspiracy circles, Matt Lawson, also complained on a livestream of feeling sick after attending the rallies. But it’s not COVID, he claims, but instead “the stuff they are spraying in the sky above Parliament”. '

Also covered in The Age and it seems numbers are up to about 30.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v....html#comments

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by UFO

A good friend of mine who has recently had both jabs was rushed to an ICU 2 weeks after the 2nd jab with a swollen heart, she is now stable, but not in a very good long term position


Although the % may be small, not everyone escapes the Vax unharmed and yes people are also dying.


I am still waiting to hear a really good argument from anyone as to why FIT and HEALTHY children and Young Adults who have a greater short term risk (God knows what the long term risks are, but heart conditions look like one of them)should be forced into taking the vaccine.


Have a quick look at this abstract:


https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1....suppl_1.10712

Why don't you stick to searching for UFOs, rather that wasting everyone's time with psuedo-scientific quackery.

Steven Gundry (the author of the 'abstract' for the 'study' to which you linked) is not a source of valid information; he has apparently become a snake oil salesman, though he appears to have been a real doctor for the first 20 years of his career.

Now he's fallen to this level;

"Some people have proposed "lectin-free" diets, mostly based on the writing of Steven Gundry. A typical lectin-free diet excludes a range of foods, including most grains, pulses, and legumes, as well as eggs, seafood, and many staple fruits and vegetables. However, Gundry's claims are considered pseudoscience, and his book "cites" studies that either have nothing to do with lectins or even show that avoiding wheat, barley, and rye lead to less beneficial bacteria and more harmful bacteria, contrary to his recommendations.

More seriously, Gundry has a conflict of interest, because he sells supplements that purportedly protect against effects of lectins. In one infomercial that lasted almost an hour, he pronounced that supplies are running low, and told viewers to act immediately and order as much as they could store. The necessity of supplements is similarly the crucial argument of his book, in which he writes "Getting all of the nutrients you need simply cannot be done without supplements".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectin


As for the BS claim of "...heart conditions look like one of them..."; not due to any indications supplied by Gundry, as even a layman can discern by reading the 'abstract'.


But we'll let real scientists who've analyzed the 'experiment' have a say.


"...the experiment as written is designed extremely poorly. ...Vaccines are designed to create an immune response. The PULS test essentially measures inflammation. One of the chief features of an immune response is inflammation. It is therefore completely unsurprising that the PULS tests showed that the patients had inflammation. This is an indication that the vaccines are working as designed.

This is not an indication, however, that vaccine-induced inflammation is dangerous. PULS tests are not widely used by cardiologists. Although the makers of the PULS test claim that it can predict who might get heart disease, there is little evidence this is true. As the experiment lacks control groups, it is not clear whether all vaccines -- mRNA or not -- produce inflammation measurable on a PULS test, nor is it clear that the vaccines caused the inflammation in these cases, as there was no control group who didn’t receive the vaccine but did receive a PULS test. There is no control group for people who didn’t get vaccinated but have recovered from a COVID-19 infection, which would measure whether such inflammation happens only in people after getting vaccinated, or whether it also happens in people who have been infected.

The sample size of 566 people is extremely small. Gundry appears not to have performed any statistical analysis, and therefore there is no indication that his results are statistically significant. For comparison, the Pfizer vaccine went through multiple rounds of safety trials, the largest of which included 46,331 individuals. These people were randomly sorted into test groups and control groups, and the administration of the vaccines and placebos was double-blinded; that is, neither the scientists nor the patients knew whether they were getting a vaccine or saline solution. Randomization, control groups, and double-blinding help eliminate conscious biases, and when experiment design lacks these things, the data cannot be used.

This is not the first time Gundry has used abstracts published as posters for an online conference to bolster his pseudoscientific claims, nor is it even the first time he’s used the PULS test to make claims about the dangers of inflammation. In an abstract from July 2019, he claimed that the diet promoted in his book The Plant Paradox, which he cites in his abstract by name, would reduce the inflammation measurable by the PULS test."

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/8667a706


"The American Heart Association published an “expression of concern” in its journal on Nov. 24 to warn that the passage may not be reliable and that a “suitable correction” was needed.

It added: “Specifically, there are several typographical errors, there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used."

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2SH1HN


And, for a preview of the horror-story you, and others like you, are promoting, let's have a look at history;

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.3001068

"The United States witnessed an unprecedented politicization of biomedical science starting in 2015 that has exploded into a complex, multimodal anti-science empire operating through mass media, political elections, legislation, and even health systems. Anti-science activities now pervade the daily lives of many Americans, and threaten to infect other parts of the world. We can attribute the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans from COVID-19, measles, and other vaccine-preventable diseases to anti-science. The acceleration of anti-science activities demands not only new responses and approaches but also international coordination. Vaccines and other biomedical advances will not be sufficient to halt COVID-19 or future potentially catastrophic illnesses, unless we simultaneously counter anti-science aggression."



Regarding a "really good argument" though, as you're proved repeatedly, you'll likely either not understand it, or will come up with some spurious 'objection', here's one, for those that retain the ability to differentiate between fact and fiction.


https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...-against-covid

[UFO]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Why don't you stick to searching for UFOs, rather that wasting everyone's time with psuedo-scientific quackery.

Steven Gundry (the author of the 'abstract' for the 'study' to which you linked) is not a source of valid information; he has apparently become a snake oil salesman, though he appears to have been a real doctor for the first 20 years of his career.

Now he's fallen to this level;

"Some people have proposed "lectin-free" diets, mostly based on the writing of Steven Gundry. A typical lectin-free diet excludes a range of foods, including most grains, pulses, and legumes, as well as eggs, seafood, and many staple fruits and vegetables. However, Gundry's claims are considered pseudoscience, and his book "cites" studies that either have nothing to do with lectins or even show that avoiding wheat, barley, and rye lead to less beneficial bacteria and more harmful bacteria, contrary to his recommendations.

More seriously, Gundry has a conflict of interest, because he sells supplements that purportedly protect against effects of lectins. In one infomercial that lasted almost an hour, he pronounced that supplies are running low, and told viewers to act immediately and order as much as they could store. The necessity of supplements is similarly the crucial argument of his book, in which he writes "Getting all of the nutrients you need simply cannot be done without supplements".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectin


As for the BS claim of "...heart conditions look like one of them..."; not due to any indications supplied by Gundry, as even a layman can discern by reading the 'abstract'.


But we'll let real scientists who've analyzed the 'experiment' have a say.


"...the experiment as written is designed extremely poorly. ...Vaccines are designed to create an immune response. The PULS test essentially measures inflammation. One of the chief features of an immune response is inflammation. It is therefore completely unsurprising that the PULS tests showed that the patients had inflammation. This is an indication that the vaccines are working as designed.

This is not an indication, however, that vaccine-induced inflammation is dangerous. PULS tests are not widely used by cardiologists. Although the makers of the PULS test claim that it can predict who might get heart disease, there is little evidence this is true. As the experiment lacks control groups, it is not clear whether all vaccines -- mRNA or not -- produce inflammation measurable on a PULS test, nor is it clear that the vaccines caused the inflammation in these cases, as there was no control group who didn’t receive the vaccine but did receive a PULS test. There is no control group for people who didn’t get vaccinated but have recovered from a COVID-19 infection, which would measure whether such inflammation happens only in people after getting vaccinated, or whether it also happens in people who have been infected.

The sample size of 566 people is extremely small. Gundry appears not to have performed any statistical analysis, and therefore there is no indication that his results are statistically significant. For comparison, the Pfizer vaccine went through multiple rounds of safety trials, the largest of which included 46,331 individuals. These people were randomly sorted into test groups and control groups, and the administration of the vaccines and placebos was double-blinded; that is, neither the scientists nor the patients knew whether they were getting a vaccine or saline solution. Randomization, control groups, and double-blinding help eliminate conscious biases, and when experiment design lacks these things, the data cannot be used.

This is not the first time Gundry has used abstracts published as posters for an online conference to bolster his pseudoscientific claims, nor is it even the first time he’s used the PULS test to make claims about the dangers of inflammation. In an abstract from July 2019, he claimed that the diet promoted in his book The Plant Paradox, which he cites in his abstract by name, would reduce the inflammation measurable by the PULS test."

https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/8667a706


"The American Heart Association published an “expression of concern” in its journal on Nov. 24 to warn that the passage may not be reliable and that a “suitable correction” was needed.

It added: “Specifically, there are several typographical errors, there is no data in the abstract regarding myocardial T-cell infiltration, there are no statistical analyses for significance provided, and the author is not clear that only anecdotal data was used."

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2SH1HN


And, for a preview of the horror-story you, and others like you, are promoting, let's have a look at history;

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.3001068

"The United States witnessed an unprecedented politicization of biomedical science starting in 2015 that has exploded into a complex, multimodal anti-science empire operating through mass media, political elections, legislation, and even health systems. Anti-science activities now pervade the daily lives of many Americans, and threaten to infect other parts of the world. We can attribute the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans from COVID-19, measles, and other vaccine-preventable diseases to anti-science. The acceleration of anti-science activities demands not only new responses and approaches but also international coordination. Vaccines and other biomedical advances will not be sufficient to halt COVID-19 or future potentially catastrophic illnesses, unless we simultaneously counter anti-science aggression."



Regarding a "really good argument" though, as you're proved repeatedly, you'll likely either not understand it, or will come up with some spurious 'objection', here's one, for those that retain the ability to differentiate between fact and fiction.


https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/co...-against-covid

Perhaps you should do some proper research (which is not handled by the MSM or organistions which have a vested interest) on the vaccine and related heart conditions - It is happening to real people - Like my friend, or I suppose you think I just made that up?



When you something more than links to propaganda let me know

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by UFO

Perhaps you should do some proper research (which is not handled by the MSM or organistions which have a vested interest) on the vaccine and related heart conditions - It is happening to real people - Like my friend, or I suppose you think I just made that up?



When you something more than links to propaganda let me know

Perhaps anything with which you don't agree you deem to be propaganda?

[JPA Cate]

Guys, got my mod hat on: we need to keep this discussion somehow related to sailing, cruising, or boats. If we don't, it is likely to be closed.

Ann

[Lucky Luke 1]

Silver Fern has been going to and from NZ.
https://www.facebook.com/oceansailingexpeditionsAU

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Guys, got my mod hat on: we need to keep this discussion somehow related to sailing, cruising, or boats. If we don't, it is likely to be closed.

Ann

Please close it anyway Ann, I'm sure that pretty well all of us are sick of the covid stuff by now.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by UFO

Perhaps you should do some proper research (which is not handled by the MSM or organistions which have a vested interest) on the vaccine and related heart conditions - It is happening to real people - Like my friend, or I suppose you think I just made that up?



When you something more than links to propaganda let me know

That you have to use co-opted buzz-words like 'proper-research', 'vested-interests', 'MSM' and 'propaganda' in a failed attempt to defend an indefensible position only reveals how far you've been taken in by charlatans like Gundry.

Combined with the apparent lack of understanding of basic scientific precepts like 'correlation isn't causation', the use of personal anecdotal evidence in an attempt to --- what exactly is it you're trying to do? --- isn't providing misleading, untruthful informatino against the rules here?

Oh and let's not forget the clueless arrogance displayed by those that seem to think that their 'intelligence' and 'perceptiveness' so far exceeds that of everyone else (that is, unless they agree with them).

Here's a clue. Some mainstream media sources oftentimes have good, easily verifiable information. Some individuals have spent their entire lives learning to differentiate between BS and reality.

I suggest you attempt to model your behavior around those individuals, and leave the snake oil salesman to ply their 'trade' on their own.

It is interesting that you fail to address any of the valid points originally expressed, and instead choose to ignore them completely by dubbing them 'propaganda'. Now what could be the reason for that?

Combined with that failure, and the posting of a dubious link easily verifiable as psuedoscience, and not understanding that correlation does not equal causation, I see no reason at all to believe that your 'friend' has vaccine-caused heart problems.

Though that's not to say that it's out of the question, since in the cursory msm search I did previously the available information indicates that there may be a link between mRNA vaccines and myocarditis/pericarditis, as it is rare but not unknown in other vaccines. For the mRNA vaccines, the incidence seems to be about 25 per million, and the condition seems amenable to standard treatment.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2781600

So a prudent person should recognize that, given the relative risks involved, it makes much more sense to get vaccinated than to not.

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Guys, got my mod hat on: we need to keep this discussion somehow related to sailing, cruising, or boats. If we don't, it is likely to be closed.

Ann

Well if that's what it takes to stop this incessant deluge of misinformation...

[El Pinguino]

I had hoped to go sailing in Western Australia in the New Year, - OK 'chartering' - but I think that plan has just flown out the window. Not even GiLow can dream such sailing dreams in South Australia.
'Western Australia will close its border with South Australia on Friday after the state recorded 18 new cases of COVID-19 in the community.

South Australia reopened its domestic borders to fully vaccinated travellers on November 23 and has recorded 29 local COVID-19 cases since as it adjusts to a new post-COVID zero life with high vaccination rates.'

https://www.theage.com.au/national/w....html#comments

And I think there is zero chance of anyone getting the neccesary permits to go sailing in the Kimberley any time soon. At least until vaccination rates are a whole lot higher.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/cov...C543JRM5V6MKU/

[Lucky Luke 1]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I had hoped to go sailing in Western Australia in the New Year, - OK 'chartering' - but I think that plan has just flown out the window. Not even GiLow can dream such sailing dreams in South Australia.
'Western Australia will close its border with South Australia on Friday after the state recorded 18 new cases of COVID-19 in the community.

South Australia reopened its domestic borders to fully vaccinated travellers on November 23 and has recorded 29 local COVID-19 cases since as it adjusts to a new post-COVID zero life with high vaccination rates.'

https://www.theage.com.au/national/w....html#comments

And I think there is zero chance of anyone getting the neccesary permits to go sailing in the Kimberley any time soon. At least until vaccination rates are a whole lot higher.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/cov...C543JRM5V6MKU/

WA would be much like Tassie. I lived in Derby for a little while and not much of the outside world had much of an effect on life.

Jim and Ann can. Be a good time to sail the Kimberly with less boats about. "Free travel into WA without any quarantining is only currently possible from Queensland and Tasmania."

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by UFO

How many people do you actually know that have suffocated of Covid or I should say within 28 days of a positive test for covid?


I have a large family and friends network in the UK and the USA and even on the friend of friend who knows about someone I know one person. I do know with the same scenario probably hundreds of people that have had it and are fine.


On the other side I personally know because of the lockdowns of 5 business that have gone under, with one owner committing suicide and another dying of an accidental drugs overdose when they got into drugs after losing their job. In this time frame I also know of 3 people that have died of other natural causes. So the term on-masse does not gel with me and in relation to the normal annual death rate its a drop in the ocean - That's not saying anything but my personal experience of the pandemic.


So you are asking for your freedoms to be curtailed??? Not a good idea in my personal opinion - Freedoms taken are rarely given back.



Actually people are basically being forced into taking the jab - How many, especially young people can afford to lose their jobs? I know of quite a few people who did not want the vax, but had/will have it as they could not pay their rent or buy food if they did/do not - If that is not Forcing (pinning down) then maybe you need to re-define your idea of the word in the context of what is happening.


I keep getting told by people that have had the jab and the media, that it works and that you are basically saved from hospitilisation and death, so what is the real reason for wanting and FORCING those who do not want to have it to take it - Especially those who are at infinitesimal risk from it.


Lets hope you are correct about the self healing of authoritarian governments, but by the sounds of it WA is too far gone from what I am hearing and QLD are trying, but there is resistance - The rest of Aus is on the downward spiral as well - Only time will tell.

Overloading the prevailing health care options are an on going battle.
People that don't want to or cannot Vax, end up in ICUs for weeks to a month or even till their dead.

Causing many to go without care for other conditions while the services for Covid spill out of control.

Authoritarian Governing Bodies are not immune to change although.

It just takes a lot longer and doesn't serve its population well, just factions of it.

Now this disease is gonna do what it wants, so they Have to consider change.
This is the biggest problem for Authoritative Governments...Change!
Boatyarddog

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Lucky Luke 1

WA would be much like Tassie. I lived in Derby for a little while and not much of the outside world had much of an effect on life.

Jim and Ann can. Be a good time to sail the Kimberly with less boats about. "Free travel into WA without any quarantining is only currently possible from Queensland and Tasmania."

Many areas in the NW of WA -ie the Kimberley region - are closed even to people from other WA regions. So sailing there would be problematic.

https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/d...unities-travel

January/February is normally a good time to make the crossing across the head of the Bight from Tas to WA but I'm not sure how that is affected by La Niña.

More info here but no mention of the effect on sailing in the south -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-...mmer/100644804