The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sorry about the social unrest.

What unrest would that be? The couple of hundred that turned up at 1300 today on St Kilda Beach and went home at 1400?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...25-p58up5.html

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

Dont be upset with El Ping , i had a few exchanges with him and even that he does come accross as an over 60th hater i think he is just a bit upset that he is now stuck in OZ instead of being on his boat.

Dingers, I've told you before , I am not agin the over 60's, I'm agin the under 70's.

My boat? I am resigned to my current situation but live in hope. Off to NSW on Monday cos I can.

[SV DINGO]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Dingers, I've told you before , I am not agin the over 60's, I'm agin the under 70's.

My boat? I am resigned to my current situation but live in hope. Off to NSW on Monday cos I can.

So you are just a grumpy old man.

How can you travel to NSW? Straight into the sharks mouth?

Why dont you come up to Townsville , do a bit of sailing with me here. Not your normal playground but still pretty good.

[SV DINGO]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sorry about the social unrest.

But your vax program is going extremely well:


Attachment 245908


Attachment 245909


Whilst daily new case and death rates remain moderate:


Attachment 245910


Attachment 245911


This is all just as I predicted a few weeks ago.


Hang on, guys!

Well you are a fair way away but yes the civil unrest obviously has made your news too. Here the communist leadership in Victoria is trying to ban the media but thanks to mobile phone cameras the truth does come to light. Yes it surely looks a bit like Hong Kong but thats because Beijing is the adviser to Victoria.

So you predicted the vax roll out , well it is a disaster.

The over 60th get forced to take a potentially deadly AZ vaccine , Even with a bit of moderna now available in Victoria the communist leader denies it to over 60th. Look back at some news about a year ago , OZ accused China of having developed this virus to kill off non productive people. Victoria is now doing that too. Double standards.

Hope you have seen all that in your crystal ball.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

What unrest would that be? The couple of hundred that turned up at 1300 today on St Kilda Beach and went home at 1400?

The BBC and other news outlets are reporting "continuing violent protests" in multiple articles, and are showing clips of brutal police actions. Oz on the front pages in Europe for the first time since the fires. Sure looks like social unrest to me, but if that's an exaggeration, I'm happy for you. Wouldn't be the first time the press gets something wrong.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

So you are just a grumpy old man.

How can you travel to NSW? Straight into the sharks mouth?

Why dont you come up to Townsville , do a bit of sailing with me here. Not your normal playground but still pretty good.

No I'm not grumpy- I just get out of bed, have a bit of a scratch and then decide how I am going to keep myself amused for the day.

Travel to NSW? Get in me car and drive there- me glasses need fixing so I'm off to Albury.

Do a bit of sailing with you? Sounds good , I assume Missus Ping and the kids are included in the invite? Bonzer! Can we bring the dogs?
( Seriously many thanks - it has been noted- maybe down the track)
Side note - I've had two inet chums from another board come sailing with me in Chile - one died in Austria last year from Covid.

[SV DINGO]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

No I'm not grumpy- I just get out of bed, have a bit of a scratch and then decide how I am going to keep myself amused for the day.

Travel to NSW? Get in me car and drive there- me glasses need fixing so I'm off to Albury.

Do a bit of sailing with you? Sounds good , I assume Missus Ping and the kids are included in the invite? Bonzer! Can we bring the dogs?
( Seriously many thanks - it has been noted- maybe down the track)
Side note - I've had two inet chums from another board come sailing with me in Chile - one died in Austria last year from Covid.

I am very sorry to hear about the guy in Austria. The whole virus saga gets a bit close to you when you really know effected people. I admit i have spoken to many but so far i have not met or heard from any of my friends that someone really had it , that might explain some of my comments as all this is really for me just happening on TV, I excaped Vic , lived in Tassie , experienced 5 days lockdown in Vic and then i escaped from state to state. Here in townsville i can tell you i could not find a single table in a cafe this morning , packed to the rafters.

Missus Ping and the kids and the dogs , yes may be next year , planning on upgrading to 65 foot.

Hope you follow the footy , go the demons.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

. . .

So you predicted the vax roll out , well it is a disaster.

The over 60th get forced to take a potentially deadly AZ vaccine , Even with a bit of moderna now available in Victoria the communist leader denies it to over 60th. Look back at some news about a year ago , OZ accused China of having developed this virus to kill off non productive people. Victoria is now doing that too. Double standards.

Hope you have seen all that in your crystal ball.

My crystal ball gave me only modest, short-term predictions.

Your vax program got off to a terrible start but it's going great guns now. You've gone from 69 doses per 100 to 101 doses per 100 in the last 30 days -- a whole month with an average over 1 per 100 per day -- that's spectacular. At that rate, you will catch the U.S. in another couple of weeks.

WHICH vaccine to take is most definitely a first-world problem. AZ is not "potentially deadly" any more than crossing the street this morning is "potentially deadly", especially not for over 60's.

Ironically there is even a benefit from the fumbling start of the vax program -- the population has virtually no natural immunity but immunity from vaccination is fresh and strong.

My crystal ball tells me you will have a fair amount more infection and some death but at this rate of vaccination there won't be time for it to get really bad (PROVIDED, however, you don't have a large number of vaccine-hesitant like what is biting the U.S. right now). All in all I think it's a great result.

Like everywhere, the details could have been handled better, but hey.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The BBC and other news outlets are reporting "continuing violent protests" in multiple articles, and are showing clips of brutal police actions. Oz on the front pages in Europe for the first time since the fires. Sure looks like social unrest to me, but if that's an exaggeration, I'm happy for you. Wouldn't be the first time the press gets something wrong.

Melbourne is a green and leafy city - where elderly ladies take tea on their front lawns or possibly in the teashop in the Block Arcade on the corner of Elizabeth and Bourke.
If one of them is the BBC correspondent I am sure they view all this as "continuing violent protests".

Those of us with a bit more 'out and about' would be more inclined to think of the Chile situation as "continuing violent protests".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euohsehNoT0

This was day and night for months- still ongoing but don't think it makes the news anymore.
When we arrived from La Serena late one night in November- we eventually got a hire car across town by a circuitous route - driver said ' tourist trade is dead - nada ---( Pause ) but I did pick up two crazy gringos tonight '
Arrive at the Hilton Double Tree in Vitacura on the safe side of town - staff hadn't been home for days - all living on site because of the riots.

That is "continuing violent protests" not the namby pamby non sense in Melbourne

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

I am very sorry to hear about the guy in Austria. The whole virus saga gets a bit close to you when you really know effected people. I admit i have spoken to many but so far i have not met or heard from any of my friends that someone really had it , that might explain some of my comments as all this is really for me just happening on TV, I excaped Vic , lived in Tassie , experienced 5 days lockdown in Vic and then i escaped from state to state. Here in townsville i can tell you i could not find a single table in a cafe this morning , packed to the rafters.

Missus Ping and the kids and the dogs , yes may be next year , planning on upgrading to 65 foot.

Hope you follow the footy , go the demons.

Yup, I'd be a dead man if I thought otherwise.

[SV DINGO]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My crystal ball gave me only modest, short-term predictions.

Your vax program got off to a terrible start but it's going great guns now. You've gone from 69 doses per 100 to 101 doses per 100 in the last 30 days -- a whole month with an average over 1 per 100 per day -- that's spectacular. At that rate, you will catch the U.S. in another couple of weeks.

WHICH vaccine to take is most definitely a first-world problem. AZ is not "potentially deadly" any more than crossing the street this morning is "potentially deadly", especially not for over 60's.

Ironically there is even a benefit from the fumbling start of the vax program -- the population has virtually no natural immunity but immunity from vaccination is fresh and strong.

My crystal ball tells me you will have a fair amount more infection and some death but at this rate of vaccination there won't be time for it to get really bad (PROVIDED, however, you don't have a large number of vaccine-hesitant like what is biting the U.S. right now). All in all I think it's a great result.

Like everywhere, the details could have been handled better, but hey.

What is your facination with Australia?

Crossing the road i believe is much more dangerous than AZ BUT did your Government force your over 60th to take it?

Pls. excuse my ignorance but Denmark is really not in the news here so i dont know.

The Vax rate is up yes. If you see the news here where the State Governments tell you that Delta will kill you 100% , yes people do get scared. Did the danish government tell you that if you dont take it you will die 100%?

Scaring people is very effective but is it right to do so?

Do me a favour and compare the Road death figures plus death from family violence , alcohol related death and throw in a couple of plane crashes if applicable and i would say that on a risk scale life in general is much more dangerous than covid.

Now back to the Footy grand Final much more important.

[El Pinguino]

How come we can get live feed of pond dwellers in Melbourne but we can't get live Grand Final unless we slip Murdoch a few bob?

https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/live-sc...nals/113770401

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Melbourne is a green and leafy city - where elderly ladies take tea on their front lawns or possibly in the teashop in the Block Arcade on the corner of Elizabeth and Bourke.
If one of them is the BBC correspondent I am sure they view all this as "continuing violent protests".

Those of us with a bit more 'out and about' would be more inclined to think of the Chile situation as "continuing violent protests".
This was day and night for months- still ongoing but don't think it makes the news anymore.
When we arrived from La Serena late one night in November- we eventually got a hire car across town by a circuitous route - driver said ' tourist trade is dead - nada ---( Pause ) but I did pick up two crazy gringos tonight '
Arrive at the Hilton Double Tree in Vitacura on the safe side of town - staff hadn't been home for days - all living on site because of the riots.

That is "continuing violent protests" not the namby pamby non sense in Melbourne

I'll take your word for it!


There have been protests almost everywhere. Even Sweden, a country not inclined to such things, has had some pretty angry protests over the pandemic measures.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

What is your facination with Australia?

Not any special fascination, and never been there, but I have a few friends in Oz and so pay some attention to antipodean news.

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

Crossing the road i believe is much more dangerous than AZ BUT did your Government force your over 60th to take it?

In my own humble opinion it was stupid to force people to take one vax over another. This will increase vaccine hesitancy significantly, and harm the vax program, without doing anyone any good, as AZ is very safe for all age groups.



However, Oz doesn't have a monopoly on fumbles around the AZ vaccine. In several European countries, including Denmark, there was a gross overreaction to tiny number of side effects from AZ which slowed down the vaccination programs, killing a probably measurable number of people from COVID, who would otherwise have been saved had they gotten the AZ vax earlier, and saving probably not one, or at most one or two.


I guess there will be studies on this and I hope there will be a solid condemnation of this brainless and inappropriate application of the Precautionary Principle. I hope it's one thing we will learn from this pandemic.

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

The Vax rate is up yes. If you see the news here where the State Governments tell you that Delta will kill you 100% , yes people do get scared. Did the danish government tell you that if you dont take it you will die 100%?

Scaring people is very effective but is it right to do so?

Probably not right to do it that way.



I am not a native of the Nordic region (I was born a Yank), so the Nordic culture is still a bit exotic for me, but they don't do anything here with fear, and I like that.


The approach to the pandemic was completely different in style from other places. People were treated as adults capable of making most decisions themselves. Most of the measures were recommendations. People had calm discussions about what to do with a minimum of politics. It was understood that some people would die and that it's essential to strike a balance and not overreact. The interests of children, young people, and poor people were never forgotten in designing the measures. Fear destroys rational dialogue and wise decision-making; the authorities were always reassuring people, not frightening them.


So yes, I agree with you about fear in general, although I only have your word about how it was done in Australia; I don't have any knowledge myself.

Originally Posted by SV DINGO

. . . Do me a favour and compare the Road death figures plus death from family violence , alcohol related death and throw in a couple of plane crashes if applicable and i would say that on a risk scale life in general is much more dangerous than covid.. . .

I agree with you that this kind of perspective is valuable.



Like Ping, I've had a couple friends who've died from COVID, one of whom wasn't that old, and I was sick with it myself, and it was horrible. I would never minimize the pandemic -- it's a really serious thing which certainly demanded serious measures. But it's also wrong to regard it as some kind of apocalypse which is beyond compare with any other human problem and which requires taking every conceivable measure, no matter how costly, without ever considering whether it might not be doing more harm than good.

[SV DINGO]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Not any special fascination, and never been there, but I have a few friends in Oz and so pay some attention to antipodean news.





In my own humble opinion it was stupid to force people to take one vax over another. This will increase vaccine hesitancy significantly, and harm the vax program, without doing anyone any good, as AZ is very safe for all age groups.



However, Oz doesn't have a monopoly on fumbles around the AZ vaccine. In several European countries, including Denmark, there was a gross overreaction to tiny number of side effects from AZ which slowed down the vaccination programs, killing a probably measurable number of people from COVID, who would otherwise have been saved had they gotten the AZ vax earlier, and saving probably not one, or at most one or two.


I guess there will be studies on this and I hope there will be a solid condemnation of this brainless and inappropriate application of the Precautionary Principle. I hope it's one thing we will learn from this pandemic.





Probably not right to do it that way.



I am not a native of the Nordic region (I was born a Yank), so the Nordic culture is still a bit exotic for me, but they don't do anything here with fear, and I like that.


The approach to the pandemic was completely different in style from other places. People were treated as adults capable of making most decisions themselves. Most of the measures were recommendations. People had calm discussions about what to do with a minimum of politics. It was understood that some people would die and that it's essential to strike a balance and not overreact. The interests of children, young people, and poor people were never forgotten in designing the measures. Fear destroys rational dialogue and wise decision-making; the authorities were always reassuring people, not frightening them.


So yes, I agree with you about fear in general, although I only have your word about how it was done in Australia; I don't have any knowledge myself.





I agree with you that this kind of perspective is valuable.



Like Ping, I've had a couple friends who've died from COVID, one of whom wasn't that old, and I was sick with it myself, and it was horrible. I would never minimize the pandemic -- it's a really serious thing which certainly demanded serious measures. But it's also wrong to regard it as some kind of apocalypse which is beyond compare with any other human problem and which requires taking every conceivable measure, no matter how costly, without ever considering whether it might not be doing more harm than good.

Very good response , thank you.

The most important thing tonight is that the Melbourne demons won the AFL Grand Final after no flag for 57 years. Far more important than Covid.

I wish i would in a way live in Denmark , sounds a far more mature approch. Here it is scare compaign and death guarantee every day around 11 am on national TV. You can get sick of hearing it , every day 7 days a week. Death is coming. I am a free man because i now sail in Queensland but the QLD Premier just simply closed the State boarder to everyone , just closed. People in QLD are extreamly happy with that but Australia is no longer one country. In WA and QLD life is totally normal with no restrictions or very minimal while people in Victoria are prisoners. I know El Ping says Melbourne is a nice place with old Lady's drinking tea in the front yard but i think he hasnt been there for a while. That old lady will be robbed , bashed even before she dies of covid. Times have changed a bit in Melbourne. Just so we are clear on this , i still have property in Melbourne and lived there since 1989 so i think i have seen some changes for sure. Denmark might be the place to be but the temperature in winter is not my cup of tea.