The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

It is not just the 18 year olds who have essentially lost years of prime life throughout the lockdowns, it is a couple of entire generations. I think the effects for many will flow on for years to come.

I believe we have paid and will continue paying an exceptionally high price per life year possibly saved.
An unprecedented amount.

SWL

You are absolutely right about that, every word you say is true. No such words were heard though when measure upon measure was introduced, with the main justification being to not overwhelm health care (well they could have thought about that over the last decade or so when the same leadership was busy dismantling said health care system).

Anyway, I focused on the 18 year olds because that is where my kids are at present so that is where I am personally most raw. But also because hearing stories from that age group, often told in a cheerful manner (they have youth on their side after all) of abandoned post school plans, shattered dreams, etc, while sitting behind their lap tops trying to listen to some teacher/prof delivering a lecture hour after hour and I can report back: this is absolutely sickening leaving me with zero respect for anyone even close to managing this absolute cluster f**k.

But back on the topic of Australia, I suppose Morrison is absolutely delighted that no-one is pointing out his climate mismanagement escapades, tucked up nicely in bed with BHP Billiton et al ('keep 'm living in fear') and, following his trip to the US to seal the new AUKUS stitch up, he prefers not to travel to Glasgow for the COP get together sighting covid restrictions. You can't make this up. So, zero respect it is.

(Edit: Actually I correct myself, I am not sure if he travelled to the US for AUKUS, so pinch of salt there, but he sure doesn't want to go to Glasgow due to covid. Yeah right. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-58703128)

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

You are absolutely right about that, every word you say is true. No such words were heard though when measure upon measure was introduced, with the main justification being to not overwhelm health care (well they could have thought about that over the last decade or so when the same leadership was busy dismantling said health care system).

Anyway, I focused on the 18 year olds because that is where my kids are at present so that is where I am personally most raw. But also because hearing stories from that age group, often told in a cheerful manner (they have youth on their side after all) of abandoned post school plans, shattered dreams, etc, while sitting behind their lap tops trying to listen to some teacher/prof delivering a lecture hour after hour and I can report back: this is absolutely sickening leaving me with zero respect for anyone even close to managing this absolute cluster f**k…..

I have been against lockdowns from the very start of the pandemic.

Subsequently my own experience has been observing the effects on my six year old god-daughter in Melbourne, an only child. A chunk of preschool and first grade has been lost. She has had no personal contact with friends or extended family for 8 months at a crucial time when interactions with others and social skills are developing. No touching, no hugs, she has been taught to avoid people at all cost. Anyone she has seen when out exercising with mum or at the supermarket are masked and distance is maintained. She has been confined to her house with only an hour’s daily reprieve while her mother is trying to work full time from home. She has retreated to bed and buried her face under a pillow each time it has been announced that lockdowns are extended.

I think the long term psychological effects of this are not to be underestimated.

SWL

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I have been against lockdowns from the very start of the pandemic.

Subsequently my own experience has been observing the effects on my six year old god-daughter in Melbourne, an only child. A chunk of preschool and first grade has been lost. She has had no personal contact with friends or extended family for 8 months at a crucial time when interactions with others and social skills are developing. No touching, no hugs, she has been taught to avoid people at all cost. Anyone she has seen when out exercising with mum or at the supermarket are masked and distance is maintained. She has been confined to her house with only an hour’s daily reprieve while her mother is trying to work full time from home. She has retreated to bed and buried her face under a pillow each time it has been announced that lockdowns are extended.

I think the long term psychological effects of this are not to be underestimated.

SWL

Heart breaking. I feel so sorry for all those kids.

My take on this has been from the start, coming from The Netherlands, how so is it OK to hand over EUR 4b (to be sure, that is 4,000 million euros) to KLM* to keep management in a job and share holders (oops those include the Dutch state) happy while those same thousands of millions of euros would have gone a very long way in properly staffing & equipping the health care system (another couple of thousand ICUs, why not) at least for the duration of this crisis. Instead the number of ICUs have actually declined the last 18 months.

*Netherlands registered Booking.com, famous/notorious for their monthly nights out in Amsterdam, renting out whole canal fronts for exclusive use of the bars located there also successfully put their snout in the euro feeding trough made available by the Dutch state. Poor them, going under due to covid, having previously paid billions to share holders through dividends and share buy backs.

At least in the UK they clapped and gave the nurses a 1% pay rise. (sarcasm alert)

And the kids continue to suffer.

Sub-zero respect for the 'ruling' class.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead;3491521[COLOR="Red"

]So you're arguing that the restrictions in Oz are not stricter than in Nordic countries?[/COLOR]


Attachment 246049


This is not reflected in the Stringency Index, which for Australia is among the highest in the world, if not THE strictest in the world, compare to Nordic countries among the lowest, and has been during much of this year.

No I did not say that at all. I just grow weary of people who have never been here, and especially haven't been here in the last 2 years, pontificating and using emotive words such as 'lockdown'. They use it all the time in the media here as well - its no wonder that some ( I don't know any ) small children are traumatised by it all , especially if their parents keep feeding the bogey man.
There are some restrictions on movement - anyone in rural Victoria can go wherever they like - in Melbourne its now 15 kilometres. Lots of exemptions for traveling for work etc. There are also restrictions on gatherings as these have been found to be superspreaders.

All these restrictions are being eased on an almost daily basis.
We have over 90% of all the over 65's vaccinated and of the general population 52% are fully vaccinated, 72% one shot. R is below 1 in NSW.

We have managed to avoid having our ICUs overloaded - we would rather we didn't have corpses piled high in hallways - although a close run thing with much elective surgery cancelled in NSW.

I would worry more about WA who are going the full hermit and Qland. In Qland the premier reckons the borders wont be opening until *every* child is vaccinated.

[SV DINGO]

I think this will be my last post to this thread as i really feel it is fruitless to argue with some of you guys.

When you compare a current situation to an event in the past you dont have to compare every part of it in every detail.

Nazi Germany was very much like Victoria is currently , one or two here can see that the constant Propaganda that is used on citizens is very similar , scaring people with the coming death and forcing them to do things that they normally would not do and eventually have the Stockholm syndrome out into them.

Yes history does repeat , sometimes in slightly different ways but it does.

Killing people can be done in numerous ways , a bullet is sometimes a humane way of doing that.

Firstly i think we had the first suicide by a man who was in hotel quarantine yesterday.

Far more important and a couple of you have understood that , we have and are still killing people , just slowly. The young people are dying a slow death at the moment. The unproportional uptake on vaccine in the very young group is not so strange , it is their fear of dying/living.

You are taking hope and the drive to live from people , look at them. They are scared they might not see tomorrow.

Dont just look at you old folks , we have seen things before but cast your mind back to when you were a child. The horizon of a child is very different to yours now.

In years to come i believe a lot of people will be very critical of what has happened in the name of saving some lifes and we will hear more and more horror stories unfolding. This is by far over trust me.

1 life saved if so today , how many life's will it cost us in the future?

Mental health? The wellbeing of a human , whats that worth???

I have no children so i can only say to some of you , watch your childen in the next year or two , this type of damage is done to the mind and the mind takes time to react to it.
God help us when we see what these Governments have done in the name of saving life's.

Thanks to all of you , was an interesting time to interact with some of you but now is time to move on from this thread.

Wish you all the best.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

...
Anyway, I focused on the 18 year olds because that is where my kids are at present so that is where I am personally most raw....

The younger people, certainly those under 30, and one could even argue under 40, if they were single, have suffered through the lock downs. And they are lock downs when one cannot:

• go to bars.
• go to dances.
• go to night clubs.
• participate in sports.
• attend school sporting events.
• travel.
• go to movies.
• go to charity events.
• attend concerts.
• DATE.
• go to weddings.
• visit friends.
• have a graduation.
• attend family members graduation.
• have a funeral.
• go to school.

The people I know who have suffered mentally because of the lock down are in their 20's. Their social life just ended and they have lost those years. Being locked up, alone in many cases, in their apartments, with no contact with people, was damaging to many. We don't yet know the full impact of this isolation on people.

But older people have lost time as well. In some ways, being older is worse because they have less time left to live, but at least they did not loose their formative school years as have so many. Having said that, grandparents have lost time with their grand kids and vice versa. This was really a big loss when the grand kids where under the age of 10 or so. How does one quantify that loss?

I really feel sorry for kids who were in their last couple of years in high school. The traditional growing up milestones were lost to them. People tried to make it up to them in some ways but it could not make up for what they lost. There is simply no way to recover those years and events.

The lock down has prevented us from looking at boat yards and boats. This has cost us at least two years off our plans. I think we can make up that lost time but time is ticking. It could have been worse in many ways. For instance, if the pandemic had happened NOW, or in a year or so, there is a good chance our plans would have been sunk. Pun intended. Our plans still might be sunk but time will tell.

The cost of the lock downs will not be known for years after this has ended and it is not just measured in the number of dead. One thing for sure is that whatever the cost, and however it is measured, the "number" will not capture the reality of what has been lost.

Later,
Dan

[Lepke]

Covid could get worse, we're only up to delta. Who knows what the CCP has next on their agenda. The lockdowns, wherever they occurred had some effect. My parents lived thru the 1918 flu. I was told every train stations (common transportation back then) there were stacks of caskets, people being shipped home. We aren't there yet.
Seems like China should pay the bill.

[Apollo19.5]

I can only give a perspective from living now in Queensland. As a general rule, we are living the same life we lived before covid 19 was heard of. We rarely have any lockdown (we are just outside the SEQ area) and occasionally have minor restrictions put in place (eg wear a mask or check in to venues), but they are not an issue. Our kids play sports, go to school, hang with friends, go shopping, etc, etc. We work, socialise, fish, camp, travel on family holidays (within the state), sail and go out for entertainment. Some businesses have faced decreased turnover whilst others have boomed (mine is flat out for last 18mths). I see how a lot of business are travelling and most I see are the same or better than pre virus. Even though it is a common theme to hate politicians, the boarder closures here are generally very well supported as it has pretty much kept the virus out of Queensland until vac rates are up, etc and this has allowed us to live normally (pretty much). My friends in WA think the same. I live in a reasonable size regional town and there has never been a case of covid here, but I think that one day there might as others travel through.


The downside of this is my folks and siblings are in NSW and so I cant visit them. This is tough at times, but we usually only travel down there once a year.

[Simi 60]

To put Australians "suffering" and "mental health" issues into perspective I found this interesting.

Yes, I realise it's a piss take site but it is pretty much right from what I am seeing and hearing

https://www.legianstreetjournal.com/...-to-open-again

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Apollo19.5

I can only give a perspective from living now in Queensland. As a general rule, we are living the same life we lived before covid 19 was heard of. We rarely have any lockdown (we are just outside the SEQ area) and occasionally have minor restrictions put in place (eg wear a mask or check in to venues), but they are not an issue. Our kids play sports, go to school, hang with friends, go shopping, etc, etc. We work, socialise, fish, camp, travel on family holidays (within the state), sail and go out for entertainment. Some businesses have faced decreased turnover whilst others have boomed (mine is flat out for last 18mths). I see how a lot of business are travelling and most I see are the same or better than pre virus. Even though it is a common theme to hate politicians, the boarder closures here are generally very well supported as it has pretty much kept the virus out of Queensland until vac rates are up, etc and this has allowed us to live normally (pretty much). My friends in WA think the same. I live in a reasonable size regional town and there has never been a case of covid here, but I think that one day there might as others travel through.


The downside of this is my folks and siblings are in NSW and so I cant visit them. This is tough at times, but we usually only travel down there once a year.

^^ This is the lived experienced of more than half of Australian population since Covid.

And yes, the experience of Melbourne has been tough (very tough I'm sure) but to compare it to a concentration camp is ridiculous (and shameful). I speak with the experience of having a parent who escaped that regime...

Musing aloud - there are a lot of African and middle eastern immigrants living in both Melbourne and Sydney who have lived many years in refugee camps or worse. While most are probably not members of CF, I would like to know their thoughts about their current covid experiences.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Wotname

...

Musing aloud - there are a lot of African and middle eastern immigrants living in both Melbourne and Sydney who have lived many years in refugee camps or worse. While most are probably not members of CF, I would like to know their thoughts about their current covid experiences.

I reckon they be grateful to be living the dream in the lucky country

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Which ones in Sydney?



.......

SWL

Pretty much all of it - there is a reason it was called a 'mockdown' . All the shops stayed open , people were going to malls for a day out , and surely you saw the images of Bondi. People still travelled out into Western NSW - the people of Wilcannia say thank you for that.
It was enforced in a few LGAs in SW Sydney, the rest not so much.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I reckon they be grateful to be living the dream in the lucky country

I think you are correct, I hope you are.

[El Pinguino]

As Apollo19.5 said above a very large part of Australia has been almost untouched by this pandemic.
Only two major cities have had restrictions of any real consequence and I'm sure the rest of Australia would not have had it any other way.

[Wotname]

Partially off topic but perhaps relevant to some - I came across this article about the reliability of Covid data from various places and Benford’s law. It seems like some of the data from the UK, Scandinavia, Canada and much of Europe isn't that great, perhaps others more educated than myself could comment.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...68504211021232