The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi Ping
No one is literally being held down and forced to get vaccinated, but for many workers it is the only option if they want to keep their jobs.

Did you see the list of authorised providers and workers that this covers in Victoria? It goes on for miles and miles and miles (OK, I admit that is a teeny tiny exaggeration, but the list does feel like it goes on for miles).

This is from the Vic government website:


———————

I note “journalist and media services” are included. I wonder how they will react. I can’t find the link for vaccination % by profession, but recently media workers were way down the list.


SWL

Yes I had seen that. I'm easy with it.

Fun day here - went to town - usual Friday run - pulled up opposite the free standing circa 1860 post office. Suddenly a voice from above - I thought for a moment it was Scomo on his way down from the mountain.
Nope, the Postmaster at an upstairs window 'We are in quarantine - I'll let them down stairs know you are here'
Downstairs - chaos - scratch crew running the shop.

Poor bugger was in a tier one in the next town last week - Auspost parcel delivery - family in quarantine for a fortnight.

Meanwhile back down on the farm - no unvaxxed contracters or carriers coming through my gate- my gate my rules.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

... and if 90% are vaccinated and 90% of hospital admissions are vaccinated, then the efficacy of the vaccines is 0%…..

Just about any statistics can be manipulated .

The flaw in your logic is that the risk of hospitalisation is not the same for all age groups, nor is the vaccination rate equal across these groups.

The elderly generally have the highest % vaccinated, but if infected they are still at higher risk of hospitalisation than someone young and healthy who is unvaccinated.

If accurate case numbers are available (or at least testing rates and criteria are steady) a better statistic to look at would be deaths per cases vs the % of vulnerable vaccinated.

The data is faulty, but the best estimate in the UK is that vaccination of the vulnerable has dropped deaths dramatically.

SWL

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

But question, why the German?

Should you have free time on your hands, enough to peruse Australian newspapers from the 19th century, you'll find certain newspapers (such as in Toowoomba, QLD) carried whole pages and classified advertisements in German.

Much of that history was disguised and forgotten after the 1914-18 war.

One of my grandfathers lived in Kaiser Street, Toowoomba, later renamed 'Belgium Street'. The neighbouring residential development was named after Bismarck. In Townsville, QLD, you'll find a suburb called 'Belgian Gardens'. No prizes for guessing what it was called before 1914. Much more of that, should you care to look.

You surely don't think all Aussies come from pasty Englanders, do you? For sure, the social-power elite in Sydney started with the English officer class. And, yes, elements of that still survive. The goose masquerading as the current prime minister of Australia does trace his ancestry to Englander petty thieves, but that's typical for that class of political Dreck from Sydney. The two prime ministers before him likewise.

One story from the nineteenth century was that the Englander officer class was lazy. Their English and Irish convict slaves were similarly lazy and refused to be motivated. In the mid-19th century, impoverished Germans (impoverished by the depredations of N Bonaparte before them) were popular immigrants because they were disciplined, hard-working, and saw opportunities when Englanders were only interested in idling away their time, happy to depend on hand-outs from Mother England (every time the colonies ran out of tucker, England would send supplies including from the British colonies in India. Why bother ploughing a field? Why not ignore the versions of agriculture and fishing practised by the indigenes? Why not ignore the native food plants? [you do know that Aus is a centre of bio-diversity, no? But that only one food plant species is known outside Aus? Wonder why, do you?] Why use intellectual power to resolve the problem that European agricultural practices failed on most Australian soils? why not just pen another plea for help from London? why not commit genocide of the indigenes, so you can ignore the low fat high protein food value of kangaroo and put English sheep and cattle on what used to be carefully tended good kangaroo pasture?).

Even a clown such as me, able to pass for white on a cloudy day, has more German ancestors than you could poke a stick at on a sunny day (I know their names and vitals back 10 generations, thanks to good churchbooks; some of them come from just over the Rhein from you). My spouse has a Swiss German grandfather. No need to go on, right?

Besides, trying to terminate a rhetorical question in English is difficult, isn't it?

https://www.migrationtranslators.com...n-its-culture/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...t_in_Australia
https://www.migrationheritage.nsw.go...ity/index.html

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Just about any statistics can be manipulated ...

A recent finding by statisticians shows that the average human has one breast, and one testicle.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Should you have free time on your hands, enough to peruse Australian newspapers from the 19th century, you'll find certain newspapers (such as in Toowoomba, QLD) carried whole pages and classified advertisements in German.

Much of that history was disguised and forgotten after the 1914-18 war.

One of my grandfathers lived in Kaiser Street, Toowoomba, later renamed 'Belgium Street'. The neighbouring residential development was named after Bismarck. In Townsville, QLD, you'll find a suburb called 'Belgian Gardens'. No prizes for guessing what it was called before 1914. Much more of that, should you care to look.

You surely don't think all Aussies come from pasty Englanders, do you? For sure, the social-power elite in Sydney started with the English officer class. And, yes, elements of that still survive. The goose masquerading as the current prime minister of Australia does trace his ancestry to Englander petty thieves, but that's typical for that class of political Dreck from Sydney. The two prime ministers before him likewise.

One story from the nineteenth century was that the Englander officer class was lazy. Their English and Irish convict slaves were similarly lazy and refused to be motivated. In the mid-19th century, impoverished Germans (impoverished by the depredations of N Bonaparte before them) were popular immigrants because they were disciplined, hard-working, and saw opportunities when Englanders were only interested in idling away their time, happy to depend on hand-outs from Mother England (every time the colonies ran out of tucker, England would send supplies including from the British colonies in India. Why bother ploughing a field? Why not ignore the versions of agriculture and fishing practised by the indigenes? Why not ignore the native food plants? [you do know that Aus is a centre of bio-diversity, no? But that only one food plant species is known outside Aus? Wonder why, do you?] Why use intellectual power to resolve the problem that European agricultural practices failed on most Australian soils? why not just pen another plea for help from London? why not commit genocide of the indigenes, so you can ignore the low fat high protein food value of kangaroo and put English sheep and cattle on what used to be carefully tended good kangaroo pasture?).

Even a clown such as me, able to pass for white on a cloudy day, has more German ancestors than you could poke a stick at on a sunny day (I know their names and vitals back 10 generations, thanks to good churchbooks; some of them come from just over the Rhein from you). My spouse has a Swiss German grandfather. No need to go on, right?

Besides, trying to terminate a rhetorical question in English is difficult, isn't it?

https://www.migrationtranslators.com...n-its-culture/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...t_in_Australia
https://www.migrationheritage.nsw.go...ity/index.html

Interesting - not one mention of the Scottish who made much of the world - including Australia - what it is today.
The germans may have provided the brawn - the scottish provided the brains - the english ? Phhhht..

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Should you have free time on your hands, enough to peruse Australian newspapers from the 19th century, you'll find certain newspapers (such as in Toowoomba, QLD) carried whole pages and classified advertisements in German.

Much of that history was disguised and forgotten after the 1914-18 war.

One of my grandfathers lived in Kaiser Street, Toowoomba, later renamed 'Belgium Street'. The neighbouring residential development was named after Bismarck. In Townsville, QLD, you'll find a suburb called 'Belgian Gardens'. No prizes for guessing what it was called before 1914. Much more of that, should you care to look.

.......

At least off the range, Marburg and Minden kept their names although Minden was renamed to Frenchton for awhile during WWI and Marburg became Townsend briefly. Unfortunately just down the road, Kircheim didn't fair so well when it was renamed to Haigslea in 1916.

https://queenslandplaces.com.au/minden
https://queenslandplaces.com.au/marb...ea%2C-ironbark

Schulte’s Meat Tavern in this area has a good German following and an interesting German history.

https://schultes.com.au/history/

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Wotname

At least off the range, Marburg and Minden kept their names although Minden was renamed to Frenchton for awhile during WWI and Marburg became Townsend briefly. Unfortunately just down the road, Kircheim didn't fair so well when it was renamed to Haigslea in 1916.

https://queenslandplaces.com.au/minden
https://queenslandplaces.com.au/marb...ea%2C-ironbark

Schulte’s Meat Tavern in this area has a good German following and an interesting German history.

https://schultes.com.au/history/

Well there I go, some interesting factoids to keep me going this Friday afternoon in German speaking Switzerland, appreciate it!

[GordMay]

After 18 months of some of the world's most severe border restrictions, Australia is set to ease its Covid-19 travel ban.
Australia will allow some international travel starting next month, Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced Friday, as it moves away from the strict “zero-Covid” strategy.

Next steps to reopen to the world
➥ https://www.pm.gov.au/media/next-steps-reopen-world

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Wotname

At least off the range, Marburg and Minden kept their names although Minden was renamed to Frenchton for awhile during WWI and Marburg became Townsend briefly. Unfortunately just down the road, Kircheim didn't fair so well when it was renamed to Haigslea in 1916.

https://queenslandplaces.com.au/minden
https://queenslandplaces.com.au/marb...ea%2C-ironbark

Schulte’s Meat Tavern in this area has a good German following and an interesting German history.

https://schultes.com.au/history/

Naturally.

About 70 of the people transported on the so-called First Fleet that ended up in Port Jackson/Sydney in 1788 were German.

After the genocide of the indigenes and until the 20th century, Germans were the biggest non-English speaking group in Australia.

Look at the western bank of southern Moreton Bay, around Cabbage Tree Point:

Cecil Zipf Park, the suburb of Steiglitz, etc - European settlement in that area was dominated from the start by Germans. Street names record some of the families.

Then northern Moreton Bay. The first settlement, outside the convict "Moreton Bay" settlement that became Brisbane, was a Christian mission to the indigenes wholly run by Germans. That's in 1838.

The area was called 'German mission' by the Englanders running the small convict settlement on the banks of the river Johnny Oxley named after the governor of the colony of New South Wales in his usual lickspittle way. The German missionaries called it Nundah, which was a lucky coincidence in two languages: in Yagera or Yuggara (which the Germans of course wrote down as Jagera, confusing Englander linguists for centuries) nunda meant 'chain of waterholes at which you can find black ducks' (Anas superciliosa). To the Germans, it meant 'now, here we are'.

Read the Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nundah,_Queensland

And I've failed to note the history stories that all white pfellas learn at school, including the role of Ludwig Leichhardt!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Leichhardt

And the German botanists who did superb collecting and describing of plant biodiversity in Aus, including Ludwig Diels, Johann Preiss, und many more:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...in-wa/12761494
https://menafn.com/1100537729/Friday...ants-to-Europe

In contemporary Aus, just under 4% of Australians identify as German.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Australians

Should I mention the role of Germany colonising eastern New Guinea aka German New Guinea, on which the Englanders in Australia cast their greedy eyes as soon as the 1914-1918 war started?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_New_Guinea

Or the German colony of Nauru, which again the greedy Englanders im Australie grabbed as soon as they could after the 1914-18 war, and then raped it of its phosphate rock? Leaving the indigenes in Nauru with a barren moonscape?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Naturally.
About 70 of the people transported on the so-called First Fleet that ended up in Port Jackson/Sydney in 1788 were German...
...And I've failed to note the history stories that all white pfellas learn at school, including the role of Ludwig Leichhardt!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Leichhardt ...

FWIW:
On this day, in 1844, German explorer Ludwig Leichhardt departed Jimbour, the farthest outpost of settlement on the Queensland Darling Downs, to begin his exploration of Australia's Northern Territory, from Moreton Bay to Port Essington.
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3493519

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by GordMay

NO, I DON'T AGREE!
That seems, to me, to be a rather psychopathic perversion of utilitarian philosophy.

Tuskegee airmen comes to mind

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Tuskegee airmen comes to mind

I believe that you are thinking of the 'Tuskegee Syphilis Study', but good case in point.
➥ https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm
➥https://www.jstor.org/stable/3561468...o_tab_contents

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Alan Mighty

Naturally.

About 70 of the people transported on the so-called First Fleet that ended up in Port Jackson/Sydney in 1788 were German.

After the genocide of the indigenes and until the 20th century, Germans were the biggest non-English speaking group in Australia.

Look at the western bank of southern Moreton Bay, around Cabbage Tree Point:

Cecil Zipf Park, the suburb of Steiglitz, etc - European settlement in that area was dominated from the start by Germans. Street names record some of the families.
....

You would enjoy the Los Lagos and Los Rios regions of Chile.
The first european settlers in Puerto Montt came directly from what is now germany ( mainly saxony I think)
Still german language newspapers, plenty german beer, food, architecture.
Quite a different vibe to Baraloche on the other side of the hills - which saw german settlement much later by - how you say- 'a different type'..
This sculpture on the costanera is a bit revisionist.
In the original painting upon which it is based the Mapuche gentleman is pointing back out to sea, not inland, and what he was saying was not 'feel free to help yourself to all my stuff ' but 'Take your fat ugly frau and your snotty nosed rug rat and bugger off back whence you came before I set me dog on you'.
They took no notice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Chileans

[AKA-None]

So thought experiment
Get vaccinated by a certain date or if you come to the er for COVID there is no room?
Harsh yes
Personal responsibility yes

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

So thought experiment
Get vaccinated by a certain date or if you come to the er for COVID there is no room?
Harsh yes
Personal responsibility yes

Thought experiment:

Is is okay to deny humanitarian care when you have the facilities to offer it? I rather doubt it. I think it would be morally distasteful, like leave you hating yourself. So my opinion is that we need to do all we can for them, as they lie sick and dying.

In a way, it is like the other guy's rights stop short of my nose, and mine, of his. So many of us feel threatened because we feel one of "them" --as if they were all the same-- threatens us with exposure post vaccine delivery to ourselves. This just may be human nature in action. But denying succor when you have the capability to reduce suffering, is just wrong, a wrong thing that we can choose to speak out against.

We with the pro vaccination stance HAVE taken a risk, we made the risk vs. possible benefit analysis, and it came up pro. For those others, for whatever reason, it came up con. I would think no doctor would go for it, except if it were a totally equal situation between two patient's needs, and then might choose to save the vaccinated one, and triage the other out, when there were only facilities for one. But said doc would probably try and find another hospital space for the patient. Remember, "first, do no harm." Health care workers have a duty of care. Only in extreme conditions will they have to get into triage.

In Canada, when that happened a couple of weeks ago now, their Province of Alberta tried to share out patients to adjacent Provinces in order to avoid the kind of triage situation AKA-None is asking us to consider. It is a large Province, and their declared state of emergency has given their gov't the right to re-locate ICU nurses from where they were to Calgary, with winter coming on, and still in a state of exponential case load growth. (I have no link for this, it was a personal communication from a doc who's ICU nurse wife is there now.)

Whereas Australians may be a little more rough and ready than Canadians, I cannot believe your medical personnel would come to difference with the Canadian way of handling it, when it got down to the nitty gritty of the situation. It would be they who would have the most emotional resistance to the idea of letting people die, just because they made what others believe is a bad decision. Also, remember not all the medical folks think the same way, either!

We're just humans, we couldn't agree on perfection, let alone accomplish it! Maybe we could agree to share a beer with a pal, though.

Ann