U.S. to close..

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Was he really given a chance to be a "really good president"?

His candidacy, nomination, election received the most aggressive and negative press that I have ever witnessed!

Starting with ridicule/personal attacks/ deep state meddling and a boycott of his inauguration where impeachment attacks had already begun.... No wonder he was defensive and aggressive to all who criticised his ideas

If Obama had received the same treatment, cries of racism would have rung loudly from every corner of the world...

Given the mantle of being a divisive President, you have to wonder what could have been achieved if they had been able to work together

If you were a citizen of NYC, Philly, Atlantic City or anywhere in the tri-state area growing up/living in the 70s-2000s then you'd know Trump's history. He wasn't given the benefit of doubt because his history did not demand it. His history was just as destructive and narcissistic as it is now, but unfortunately not nationally known. Some thought that once the gravity of his responsibilities struck him he'd somehow morph into a leader. We (those in this area) knew he'd continue his destructive behavior. You might be a US citizen but I believe you have chosen to be a expat living in a different country. And that is fine. But if you knew him locally before he was elected you might have had your own doubts.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

If you were a citizen of NYC, Philly, Atlantic City or anywhere in the tri-state area growing up/living in the 70s-2000s then you'd know Trump's history.

[emoji106] (Lived/worked in NYC 1986-1996)

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That virus has a mind of its own, and may whack mercilessly when we least expect it. It is FAR too early for ANYONE to be patting himself on the back.


Look at Czechia, Lithuania, or, for God's sake, France -- with arguably the best public health system in the world -- and say -- "There but for the grace of God go I".

This is a good time to say that while our business has managed to remain open and covid free an element of luck was involved.

We could have easily, through chance, gotten the virus.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

If you were a citizen of NYC, Philly, Atlantic City or anywhere in the tri-state area growing up/living in the 70s-2000s then you'd know Trump's history. He wasn't given the benefit of doubt because his history did not demand it. His history was just as destructive and narcissistic as it is now, but unfortunately not nationally known. Some thought that once the gravity of his responsibilities struck him he'd somehow morph into a leader. We (those in this area) knew he'd continue his destructive behavior. You might be a US citizen but I believe you have chosen to be a expat living in a different country. And that is fine. But if you knew him locally before he was elected you might have had your own doubts.

After 4 years as president, Trump achieved a greater share of votes in NYC.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...-1552534?amp=1

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

After 4 years as president, Trump achieved a greater share of votes in NYC.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...-1552534?amp=1

Nevertheless, Biden received 75.7% of NYC votes... (2.3 million versus 690,000)

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Nevertheless, Biden received 75.7% of NYC votes... (2.3 million versus 690,000)

And Trump gained in constituencies I find important to the fabric.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I would submit -- sign of a mature society.

In fact if anything, social pressure was far more effective at stopping the idiots then any enforcement

In the US the picture that is painted ( by some) is of an over bearing government clamping down on its citizenry.

But here , the biggest compliant was that the Gov wasn’t acting fast enough and harshly enough !!! ( lots of clamour to close the airports which is constitutionally problematic here ) the public mood at times was for way stricter measures then was often implemented

Also the public were merciless in enacting punishment to any high profile members of society that transgressed , we lost our EU trade commissioners position because he attended a golf diner and a Supreme Court judge is currently under massive public pressure to resign

The opinion polls have consistently over 70% approval for the various measures.

Hardly the sign of an overzealous or over bearing government I suggest

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

If you were a citizen of NYC, Philly, Atlantic City or anywhere in the tri-state area growing up/living in the 70s-2000s then you'd know Trump's history. He wasn't given the benefit of doubt because his history did not demand it. His history was just as destructive and narcissistic as it is now, but unfortunately not nationally known. Some thought that once the gravity of his responsibilities struck him he'd somehow morph into a leader. We (those in this area) knew he'd continue his destructive behavior. You might be a US citizen but I believe you have chosen to be a expat living in a different country. And that is fine. But if you knew him locally before he was elected you might have had your own doubts.

Hi Gadagirl, totally agree with your summation.

You just have to read his books like "the art of the deal" to understand he is a shameless promoter.

I have in fact had two meetings with Trump at the Ft.Lauderdale boat shows, when he was converting Superyacht Nabilia into Trump Princess and our new FEADSHIP project was receiving all the accolades and awards of the best Superyacht in 93.
Mostly because the Client invested heavily on R&D before going to contract and gave me a winning hand.

Trump was pumping me for as much free info as he could get, while trying to head hunt.
Even though I knew I could never work for a guy like that, I had to admire his effectiveness at getting things moving in a self advantaged way.

Trump is a "Personality", that does not sit comfortably on the pedestal, Americans like to place their Presidents upon.

BTW/ I am Scottish/Canadian but without any national allegiances.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That virus has a mind of its own, and may whack mercilessly when we least expect it. It is FAR too early for ANYONE to be patting himself on the back.


Look at Czechia, Lithuania, or, for God's sake, France -- with arguably the best public health system in the world -- and say -- "There but for the grace of God go I".

Yes, understanding how to control the virus is like trying to grab hold of a spinnig gyrocompass.

Problem is that this Spin in the US has precessed politically rather than with unity

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Yeah, I saw a list of the 25 or 100 great things he's done. Most of it either copies of the item before it or lies. Care to share what he's done besides ripping kids away from their parents and caging them? Oh, wait? Tax cuts for the rich. Which took away a whole LOT og deductions for, you know, blue state citizens. Sheez.


And, this topic: Covid. How'd he do on THAT?

"ripping kids away from their parents and caging them? "

Obama started that....

[Capt. Lace]

Time to sail away

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It seems paradoxical to us North Americans, but individual freedom and acting collectively and taking care of each other, are not necessarily a contradiction. The Nordic way is to be extremely careful with individual rights -- remember that in at least two Nordic countries lockdown by decree is not even possible constitutionally. And freedom of movement has been preserved very broadly -- girlfriends and boyfriends for example allowed to cross closed borders to see their sweethearts without any documentary proof of a relationship. Quarantine everywhere voluntary. None of the measures enforced with the force of criminal law.

And yet people obey the voluntary quarantines to a higher degree than those in other countries who fear punishment; recommendations about working from home and avoiding unnecessary contact an internal travel results in changes of behavior similar to those in countries which had lockdown.

So why indeed do we have to infringe individual rights, in order to achieve collective goals? Well, we don't. The difference is culture. And trust. People CHOOSE to do this and that, to protect each other. They don't need to be forced or punished. Maybe forcing and punishing is not the right way to go about achieving these goals? Maybe that is what drives the wedge between the collective and the individual?

Hear! Hear!
Generally speaking I can make better decisions for myself and my family than any governor or mayor or public health official. They have problems with compliance because they issue poorly thought out rules like you can go into store A and buy this but not that and you can't go into store B and buy anything.

[Capn Jimbo]

With all due respect one of the side effects of isolation - especially of sailors - is that the same small crew takes over selected Covid threads drowning the readers with their long winded, repetitive, often political blather. The reality vs politics show goes on, no one convinces anyone, the temperature rises and...

The thread is closed by the overwhelmed moderators.

As a retired advanced practice nurse, public health, I've attempted to bring a bit of selective reality but to little avail. To be fair there a goodly number of thoughtful posters who "get" it and I applaud their refusal to allow the usual suspects to bulldose them with their trolling spew.

The sad consequence is that the lack of unity only insures the explosive growth of Covid. The next 3 to 4 months will shut them up, but the cost - especially in long term, "longhauler", lasting damage to 30-50% of infected people - that cost will be immense and lasting.

We are in for it (US).

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GordMay

However, OWS won't likely succeed in meeting its goal of delivering 300 million doses of the vaccine by the beginning of the new year. At most, it will be able to deliver about 20 million doses.

I wouldn't say that the president "oversaw" nor "concieved" of the OWS program, but he certainly didn't seem to hinder it. either. As the old saw goes; "lead, follow, or get out of the way".

What other vaccine has been developed in 10 months with 20 million doses delivered by the end of the same year? This is just an attempt to undermine a incredible accomplishment.

If you want to claim OWS wasn't one of Trump's accomplishments, then no president should be given credit for any program that was largely run by the agencies under that president...realistically, it's rare for a president to have any hands on work particularly in technical programs. Do you think when the TVA was building dams back during the depression, the president did the geotechnical engineering on the dam foundations? Of course not.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I have no idea what a TDS response is ... Tabular Data Stream? Totally Depressed Snake?

I agree, most countries haven't come out with a vaccination. All I was saying is that others have. Accept it. I'm not diminishing the accomplishment. Warp Speed is admirable.

I'm not claiming the US will fail. I'm simply suggesting that countries with centralized national health care systems are better equipped for the logistics of carrying out this task. The US has a decentralized health care system that will have to find a way to work together and share data in this mammoth task. Not a criticism, just a fact.

I honestly don't believe people will try to scam the system to get vaccinated 10 times. Personally, I plan on lining up just the once.

It's not really "uncharted territory" for many countries (like Brazil) that have a national vaccination system under the national health care system. The infrastructure is already in place to handle the task.

Out of curiosity, are you going to take the vaccine?

So how exactly does having a registry speed up the distribution? Until we get to the last 5-10%, it's really not an issue figuring out who has had it (hence the comment about people scamming to get it 10 times).

Any vaccination system currently in place isn't designed to do the entire population at once, so yes trying to do the entire population at once is new territory. It's usually young children or targeted groups (like elderly for flu shots)...so having that normal system doesn't really offer much advantage that I can see.

As far as will I get it...I'll be watching the early roll out but assuming no major issues show up, by the time it gets around to me, I probably will get it but by then there will likely be 100-150million doses distributed worldwide and we will have results that are orders of magnitude larger to assess with.