U.S. to close..

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "...look at the measures used in Minnesota... "

In a lighter vein, for them wot understand Danish (not quite a send-up):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjiBi8IWmlo

TP

[Capn Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

8% of population have high levels of anti PEG antibodies. 8% is clinically significant.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6512330/

It's been my experience that polemicists - in a rush to support themselves - provide links to material that often contradicts them. I love this. From the provided link:

"Given the generally strong safety profile of many PEG- modified therapeutics, and assuming that the prevalence and concentrations of anti-PEG Ab measured here are correct, our findings would seem to support the conclusion that, under certain threshold concentrations, low to perhaps even modest levels of circulating anti-PEG Ab’s in most individuals would not adversely affect the safety and efficacy of PEG-modified therapeutics."

"In our study, since most individuals exhibited only low anti-PEG Ab levels, the high prevalence of anti-PEG Ab is likely attributed in part to the high sensitivity of our competitive ELISA method."

Here's the problem. I've worked for 30 years as an advanced practice nurse, research university - and I wouldn't pretend to fully comprehend this dated reference. As can be seen, I too can cherry pick.

The point: such arguments - especially based on non-peer reviewed, preliminary abstracts - are not conclusive. I should add this was not even a final draft - ergo there is no easy way of knowing what the authors really concluded.

If the intent is to sound authoritative by doing so, I'd call that a fail as well. My real reaction? Who really cares....

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... but do YOU know what this means? In other words, from what you know about PEG reactions, and the PEG used in the current COVID-19 vaccine candidates, what do you predict as the %-age of mild reactions, severe reactions, deaths from the proposed COVID-19 vaccines?

You still haven't answered a simple question, which I guess boils down to what you fear more - COVID-19, or an adverse vaccine reaction.

This question?: So what is ultimately your advice to the mother of the child? How do you explain the risks of the different options? What numbers do you use? If you use the wrong numbers, and if the mom acts according to those numbers, and the child suffers...then you're easily subject to professional reprimand and lawsuit if the mom lodges protest with that outcome.
So what is your advice based on all the science?
As an MD (This is hypothetical), I have been trained to always prescribe the drugs pushed by big pharma reps and to never, ever question vaccine safety. But I decided to tell the truth this one time and as you can see above, I already answered the question (So what is your advice based on all the science?). The actual science isn't available to read and you are being manipulated and lied to.

For you persistence LE, here is a present:
https://thehighwire.com/videos/a-vac...n-the-horizon/

[requiem]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The patient information leaflet [1] provided with the Pfizer/BioNTech “BNT162b2" vaccine notes that the vaccine should not be given to someone who is “allergic to the active substance or any of the other ingredients of this medicine” [2], which include potassium chloride, sodium chloride, sucrose and cholesterol.

Indeed, allergic responses to those ingredients would be particularly bad. But, there may be other ingredients with scarier names, such as the mentioned polyethylene glycol. Perhaps those worried about that should keep a bottle of Benadryl handy, but whatever you do, don't read the ingredients on it!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

As an MD (This is hypothetical), I have been trained to always prescribe the drugs pushed by big pharma reps and to never, ever question vaccine safety. But I decided to tell the truth this one time and as you can see above, I already answered the question (So what is your advice based on all the science?). The actual science isn't available to read and you are being manipulated and lied to.

You list 'facts', others list 'facts', but you do nothing with them. You're simply refusing to think.

Your choice... but you're missing something far more complex, challenging and satisfying. I'll leave you to guess what it is.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

...

You still haven't answered a simple question, which I guess boils down to what you fear more - COVID-19, or an adverse vaccine reaction?.

Exactly. Yesterday the US had 3,000 Covid deaths and that alarming daily death count is likely to become the norm in the coming weeks and months. I suppose we'll have to see after mass vaccinations, but I'm going to bet that 3,000 people a day are not going to die from the vaccine. In fact, I don't expect anyone will die from it.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo

...... Who really cares....

That we are allowed to be manipulated and lied to by convicted felons? Apparently hardly anyone cares. I posted the study to show that anti peg antibodies are well documented but poorly understood. There are many similar studies.

They knew all along that there would be this problem. It didn't affect the price of their stock until today did it? What else are they lying about?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If you spend a bit of time outside of your echo chamber, and get the full news, you'll see the actual story is a bit more nuanced.

Nuance and the 99%-ers don't ever seem to mix well at all. I believe they are all binary.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

. . . As an MD (This is hypothetical), I have been trained to always prescribe the drugs pushed by big pharma reps and to never, ever question vaccine safety. But I decided to tell the truth this one time and as you can see above, I already answered the question (So what is your advice based on all the science?). The actual science isn't available to read and you are being manipulated and lied to.. .

I'm sorry that you've been treated with disrespect -- I think that's not right -- I think it's understandable that people would experience fear at the thought of getting shot up with genetically engineered stuff.


HOWEVER, where in the world do you get the idea that vaccines are hideously dangerous and that this danger is being covered up by an evil conspiracy? Whether or not vaccines are so dangerous is an objective fact which might theoretically be temporarily suppressed by some combination of powerful interests but there is just no way that it could be made to just disappear.



Why don't you -- just as a favor to yourself -- try to find real facts, read papers, try to find a doctor you trust -- think critically and try to get at the truth. The "actual science" IS available to read, like all science which isn't done in some top secret laboratory somewhere (how do you think scientists share information among themselves?) -- you might need to pay for this or that subscription but you CAN find it and you are obviously smart enough to understand it if you read it carefully and put your mind to it. Don't read politicized second hand or third hand crap -- try to get to the very source. There are way too many scientists involved in this huge field for them all to be in a conspiracy. If there is some big danger and frequent harm done by vaccines, then MANY scientists will be talking about it, and you can find these conversations.



It's an objective question which can be answered by science -- how many problems are there really? One in ten? One in a thousand? One in a million? Once you know this, then you can make your own judgement about whether it's worth it or not. Different people will have different opinions about the risk, base on the objective facts, and you are entitled to your own opinion, and you are entitled to respect for it. What none of us is entitled to, however, is our own facts.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm sorry that you've been treated with disrespect -- I think that's not right -- I think it's understandable that people would experience fear at the thought of getting shot up with genetically engineered stuff...... try to find real facts......."actual science" IS available to read.......Don't read politicized second hand or third hand crap......If there is some big danger and frequent harm done by vaccines, then MANY scientists will be talking about it.......... What none of us is entitled to, however, is our own facts.

There is plenty of well documented concerns on safety. This issue is entirely politicized to the point that all you see is crap. Many scientists are talking about it. My point all along is that we are being manipulated and lied to. There is plenty of real scientific evidence questioning their efficacy and safety. There are plenty of reports of cover-ups and frauds in the industry. And serious lack of efficacy and safety reviews on current vaccines. I realize that this is not the place to have that debate and that very few of you would actually want to take the time to look at or consider any of this evidence or consider viewpoints other than the mass programming that we constantly look at. The links I have provided lately are a direct response to provocation that these are non- issues. We are in the middle of an anti vaccine hesitancy propaganda campaign. Untold millions are being spent to make sure that no one gets the wrong ideas and to vilify those with legitimate concerns. I will gladly stop posting links on this thread when posters such as LE stop begging for them. Until then, game on.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I will gladly stop posting links on this thread when posters such as LE stop begging for them.

By all means, keep posting links. Just be aware that you should be prepared to defend them.

My point all along is that we are being manipulated and lied to.

...why? What is the point of manipulating and lying to us? What's going on?

Many people, groups, businesses, corporations have bent rules and ethics for their own ends, but they are pretty much separate ends. Big drug companies sometimes bend or break the rules, they usually get caught. That's how you know they bent the rules. Otherwise, we'd have no idea, would we?

I'm quite comfortable with the assumption that there's so much money to be made from selling effective vaccines and having the population protected, that companies and governments would have nothing to gain from promoting dangerous or ineffective vaccines. Call me naive, but I think it's a very safe bet.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

By all means, keep posting links. Just be aware that you should be prepared to defend them.

...why? What is the point of manipulating and lying to us? What's going on?

Many people, groups, businesses, corporations have bent rules and ethics for their own ends, but they are pretty much separate ends. Big drug companies sometimes bend or break the rules, they usually get caught. That's how you know they bent the rules. Otherwise, we'd have no idea, would we?

I'm quite comfortable with the assumption that there's so much money to be made from selling effective vaccines and having the population protected, that companies and governments would have nothing to gain from promoting dangerous or ineffective vaccines. Call me naive, but I think it's a very safe bet.

Once again leaves me wondering how much you get paid to blog for the man. Maybe you do it for free. One guy on here thought that you were a

low key paid blogger

. You ask:
What is the point of manipulating and lying to us?
Good question. You tell me.
Say what you like everyone. Thumbs Up, out.

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

You ask:
What is the point of manipulating and lying to us?
Good question. You tell me.
Say what you like everyone. Thumbs Up, out.

Thumbs Up, I was really hoping you were going to answer Lake Effect's question, because I was wondering the same thing.

[Jason Flare]

Let me get this straight.

I need to believe big pharma’s scientists to the same degree I believe bid oil’s and big tobacco’s?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Given it’s a handful of people , it’s likely a few outliers that a trial would have not picked. Standard stuff for medicines.

If it was known and in the leaflet then why were they not telling people? FYI the leaflet from the vaccine is not given to people before shots, as if they did many people after reading would not have the shot.


Anaphylactic shock is one of the biggest issues with vaccines and is known to occur across a wide range of vaccines and is the biggest cause of damage to people and no doubt consumes the biggest potion of the payouts.


As you are probably aware people can die from it.


My eldest daughter had an anaphylactic reaction to a jab when she was little and had to be rushed to hospital, fortunately she was OK, but some people are not - That was the last jab anyone in my family ever had - There are tens of millions of people around the planet that can have these reactions that do not even realise that they have an allergy to something in the vaccine.


As to Lake Effect, who is just a CF Troll, where there is a will there is a way to cruise and I'll be out there do not fear.


Even though I am in a group that should worry with Covid, I'll take the illness every time over the vaccine and FYI its not 1 in a 100 that die from it - Just more BS coming from you.