U.S. to close..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by UFO

As to Lake Effect, who is just a CF Troll, where there is a will there is a way to cruise and I'll be out there do not fear.

I'm the troll. Ok then.

Even though I am in a group that should worry with Covid, I'll take the illness every time over the vaccine and FYI its not 1 in a 100 that die from it - Just more BS coming from you.

It was a hypothetical, and labelled as such.

[SalingSue]

Y’all see this gem lol

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/oce...FZKGEKDRSBTJM/

Just like I’ve been saying, messing with strangers is far more dangerous than this virus.





Also notice the last name on his “marine” photo.
Stolen valor?

I’d wager between that and the video of him walking past his car and starting a confrontation with strangers is why the police don’t care.

If the guy would have minded his business he wouldn’t have got that painful education.

Also hard to say you really think the virus is a big deal and masks are important when you have a thick beard under your mask, destroying the seal, and you get in peoples faces, “social distance”,?, because they did not wear a mask.

Guess the good news is he says he learned not to mess with folks not wearing masks. So there is that silver lining.


I swear, some peoples kids lol

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by UFO

...My eldest daughter had an anaphylactic reaction to a jab when she was little and had to be rushed to hospital, fortunately she was OK, but some people are not - That was the last jab anyone in my family ever had - There are tens of millions of people around the planet that can have these reactions that do not even realise that they have an allergy to something in the vaccine.

Just because your daughter had an anaphylactic reaction does not mean your entire genetic group will have the same. But it is your right not to be inoculated.

It is also society's right not to be exposed to you. This is why I expect there will be a requirement to prove inoculation for societal participation in the coming years.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Just because your daughter had an anaphylactic reaction does not mean your entire genetic group will have the same. But it is your right not to be inoculated.

It is also society's right not to be exposed to you. This is why I expect there will be a requirement to prove inoculation for societal participation in the coming years.

Actually it’s not their right.

If you’re concerned with a virus, get a shot, if that shot works you’ll be fine, no need to try to live others lives.

You do not have the right to force a medical procedure on other people.

If you think you do have that right, will you be the first in line to stack up on someone’s front door to kick it down and try to enforce your will onto them?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

You do not have the right to force a medical procedure on other people.

You'll be pleased then to hear that the COVID-19 vaccination will not be mandatory in the US or Canada.

You might however find that over the next two or three years, proof of vaccination will be required for many travel modes and destinations, some venues and establishments, etc.

(my money is still on you eventually getting vaccinated )

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Actually it’s not their right.

If you’re concerned with a virus, get a shot, if that shot works you’ll be fine, no need to try to live others lives.

You do not have the right to force a medical procedure on other people.

If you think you do have that right, will you be the first in line to stack up on someone’s front door to kick it down and try to enforce your will onto them?

You have the complete right to avoid the vaccine, but businesses and institutions also have the right to set limits on who can access their facility or services. No Shirt, No Shoes, No vaccine, no service.

You have the freedom to say no ... and so does the rest of society. That's how freedom works.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You have the complete right to avoid the vaccine, but businesses and institutions also have the right to set limits on who can access their facility or services. No Shirt, No Shoes, No vaccine, no service.

You have the freedom to say no ... and so does the rest of society. That's how freedom works.

But let’s be honest with each other at least, it’s NOT the business who said “you must wear a fashion mask” or whatever, it’s not freedom when the government threatened the livelihood or safety of the shop owner, if he/she doesn’t enforce THE GOVERNMENTS dictates. .

If a shop has a stupid policy, or practices that I don’t like, I don’t shop there, that’s free market and very much fine with me.

With how much pushback there is for this mask nonsense, if a establishment could say we are a “mask free zone” they’d be slammed with business. You are OK with that too right?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

But let’s be honest with each other at least, it’s NOT the business who said “you must wear a fashion mask” or whatever, it’s not freedom when the government threatened the livelihood or safety of the shop owner, if he/she doesn’t enforce THE GOVERNMENTS dictates. .

If a shop has a stupid policy, or practices that I don’t like, I don’t shop there, that’s free market and very much fine with me.

With how much pushback there is for this mask nonsense, if a establishment could say we are a “mask free zone” they’d be slammed with business. You are OK with that too right?

Maybe this is true in your world. It's not in mine. Many businesses ... perhaps most, moved to a mask requirement long before it became a legal mandate.

There has not been a lot of pushback for this "mask nonsense." Not even in your country. There's a vocal, I would say whinny minority, but the vast majority of American citizens are fine with masks.

Here are the first three headlines from a search on "USA poll on mask use":

• Mask use by Americans now tops 90%, poll finds
• Bipartisan majority supports statewide mask mandates, poll finds
• Poll Finds Record Number Of Americans Are Wearing Masks

Sue, you are the outlier.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Maybe this is true in your world. It's not in mine. Many businesses ... perhaps most, moved to a mask requirement long before it became a legal mandate.

There has not been a lot of pushback for this "mask nonsense." Not even in your country. There's a vocal, I would say whinny minority, but the vast majority of American citizens are fine with masks.

Here are the first three headlines from a search on "USA poll on mask use":

• Mask use by Americans now tops 90%, poll finds
• Bipartisan majority supports statewide mask mandates, poll finds
• Poll Finds Record Number Of Americans Are Wearing Masks

Sue, you are the outlier.

In my state that’s not remotely the case. Folks are very sick of the covid hysteria, thankfully our elected government workers are starting to figure that out.

Also these days you should know better than to trust polls.

But again, you skip the point.

How is freedom when the government threatens shopkeepers livelihoods or safety if they don’t enforce the governments mandates?
That seems the opposite of freedom, at least my old school definition of the word.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

How is freedom when the government threatens shopkeepers livelihoods or safety if they don’t enforce the governments mandates?
That seems the opposite of freedom, at least my old school definition of the word.

Governments mandate all manner of safety requirements on citizens and businesses. If a restaurant wants to keep cockroaches, "the government" threatens shopkeepers livelihoods. So, unless you're in favour of complete Laissez-faire economics, with no limits and no regulations for anyone, all you're doing is cherry-picking this particular issue.

But once again, most businesses have chosen to institute some sort of mask mandate outside of government demand because they know it's just good business. If your customers are getting sick at your establishment, it tends to be bad for business.

BTW, what state are you in? Show me the data to support your statement. You offer anecdote. Show me the actual evidence. Or just tell me where you're at and I'll dig up the data.

I suspect that if you step outside your echo chamber you'll see the real world is not as you believe.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Just because your daughter had an anaphylactic reaction does not mean your entire genetic group will have the same. But it is your right not to be inoculated.

It is also society's right not to be exposed to you. This is why I expect there will be a requirement to prove inoculation for societal participation in the coming years.

So have you signed up for your Jab then Mike? From what you are saying I would expect to see you be one of the first to get jabbed.



"It is also society's right not to be exposed to you."



Jeeze this is not Ebola or something worse - Its people pushing this sort of agenda that is going to create massive problems in regards to a dystopian future for our Grandchildren.



You want to basically enforce through coercion a medical procedure that to some can have very bad to deadly side effects, let alone the unknown side effects that will spring up over the next few decades to protect a minuscule section of the population that are generally older than the average death rate of many countries where they die. This whole covid thing would eventually blow over and become just another nasty Flu year, yet you want to get the whole planet jabbed for eternity....



You really think creating a society where this happens is a good thing? Creating Fear of one another and creating state sponsored discrimination against people?



What astounds me is how everyone jumps on the band wagon to protect the pharmaceutical companies and their vaccines, looking to them as their saviours - These are experimental never used before vaccines and there are trillions of $ at stake, yet you guys are all lapping up whatever they say as if it's Gospel giving them 100% of your trust - LOL.



You should do some research with their dealings with developing nations such as Nigeria, India, other African nations, Central and South American nations - They ain't squeaky clean and don't give a rats arse about human life if it comes head to head with profits and share price.



But I suppose that's just foreign governments griping about the Rich Western Corps and all those kids didn't really die or get seriously injured for life. So how about the Opioid epidemic which has been destroying lives, families and killing people for god knows how long with the Pharmaceutical companies making Billions of $ off death - That's OK is it as they said they did not realise what was happening, even though they had their drug pusher GP's peddling it as fast as they could.


Its a corrupt and dirty world we live in and people pushing your sort of line, just empowers it to continue as it is.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Governments mandate all manner of safety requirements on citizens and businesses. If a restaurant wants to keep cockroaches, "the government" threatens shopkeepers livelihoods. So, unless you're in favour of complete Laissez-faire economics, with no limits and no regulations for anyone, all you're doing is cherry-picking this particular issue.

But once again, most businesses have chosen to institute some sort of mask mandate outside of government demand because they know it's just good business. If your customers are getting sick at your establishment, it tends to be bad for business.

BTW, what state are you in? Show me the data to support your statement. You offer anecdote. Show me the actual evidence. Or just tell me where you're at and I'll dig up the data.

I suspect that if you step outside your echo chamber you'll see the real world is not as you believe.

FL, and I’m very much outside, I never “locked down” or any of that stuff, I travel a good deal for work, and all I have is what I see with my lying eyes.

I don’t really pay attention to social media, I’m not really even on it minus here and another forum, and I don’t watch the media, they are ALL owned, have their own interests, and suspect.

Again, you do you, and that’s cool, just don’t try to mess with others is all I ask.


Also per roaches, I don’t need the silly state for that, no one does, I see a roach, or my food is off, I ain’t coming back, not many people would, and no customers, no income, no business.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...I suspect that if you step outside your echo chamber you'll see the real world is not as you believe.

I suggest perhaps recalling that for a single-digit percentage of people the echo chamber measures in the centimeter range, and there is practically nothing others can do about it (and it's not their fault). Notably I don't mean to refer to people who actually read this/that wonky book, but rather those who merely posture/ask nebulous questions/glee with violence/gaslight/posture repetitively.

[Yihang]

Just throwing it out there....

Pfizer, the company that brought you Viagra by accident lost it's patent on Viagra in April 2020....

puts on tin hat.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by UFO

....Jeeze this is not Ebola or something worse - Its people pushing this sort of agenda that is going to create massive problems in regards to a dystopian future for our Grandchildren....

Supposing in 2020 that there was no healthcare, what do you think the fatality rate of Covid would be? I mean if we only had 1918 technology/treatment (i.e. "hopes and prayers"...rarely even supplemental oxygen to give). If not a fatality rate, what do you think the death count would be now for people who died with an active Covid infection going on in their body?

And supposing the (US) govt did nothing for Covid from day 1....if the govt had done nothing about closing borders, rolling lockdowns, closing restaurants/gyms...and no medical treatment was given...what would the US death count be?

And suppose there is a lethal respiratory pandemic in the future.....where do you place the threshold (in terms of fatality rate...or whatever metric you can define) where the govt should, for example, mandate masks close schools, close bars/restaurants/gyms/churches/biker rallies/sporting events/etc? Does it need to be at the "Ebola level" or what?