U.S. to close..

[JoeRobertJr]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Remember, I’m not exercising my freedoms for me, I’m exercising my freedoms for you!

Based on your previous posts, I think you meant "Remember, I’m not exercising my freedoms for me, I’m exercising my freedoms despite you!"

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by JoeRobertJr

Based on your previous posts, I think you meant "Remember, I’m not exercising my freedoms for me, I’m exercising my freedoms despite you!"

Sadly that may be true.

Front line “essential” freedom workers fighting for those who sadly became socially distant from the constitution and bill of rights

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

So... you think a vaccine risk of 1 in 1,000,000 is worth avoiding, but the 1 in 100 which is the Covid-19 mortality risk oft-quoted here, is nothing to worry about.

1 in a million was from someones else's figures in regards to actual payouts for damages in the USA - This is simply a figure I was having a laugh with as no ones knows the real real damage rates caused by vaccines - Have you ever wondered why the chronic illness rates are going through the roof in the last 30 years? Have you seen what the vaccine schedule has changed from and to in the last 30 years? and well if you think it's 1 in a 100 for covid mortality risk then I fully understand why you are running scared for the hills, but in the real world the mortality rate is again very very small, so please stop pushing the 1 in 100 (1%) line as you as well as I know that is not true.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Singularity

It's not an irrelevant statement. It is the basis of human thought and computation that we compare new things to old things to understand what the new thing is. If you have no idea what the old thing is, then it's like you have an unusual type of Alzheimer's, always living in the present, always making up things as you go along. And it shows.
Agreed. But you've not stated what measures should be done by whom and "how bad" things need to be before those measures ought to be instituted.

If you're going to be critical about something, at some point you should understand that the word critical implies a sieving, or sifting of a situation. What's important, what's not. And you're either using some maths to do that (numbers and stuff) or you're just going by your gut feeling/pixie dust quotient. So indeed what numbers? Or do you just make Kool Aid with your pixie dust that everyone else is supposed to drink? Fingers crossed?You've offered no numbers or analysis that suggest that you're qualified to determine who should even be "targeted" (statistically) with vaccines, you say they shouldn't be forced on people, while you said they should be targeted. That's convoluted logic/cognitive dissonance stuff.

So if the people who do as you say, target the vaccines, determine that you're in the crosshairs...do you all of a sudden declare "no, I meant target the vaccines according to me feelings on the matter"?
In the history of humanity fools have never been spare mockery for long. Consider that mockery is, again, not "Step 1" in dealing with obstinate people. It's like the last straw when trying to get obstinate people to change their ways. Indeed....there's always the 0.0001% chance that the 'fool' is really the only wise man around......but wise outliers do not tend to sing in the minority of opinion choir...not even standing out in that choir.

Otherwise, playing this victim card business ought to be reserved for real victims....and not wrapped up in a term like "freedom."
Look, in 2002 someone got a Nobel for pointing out that people are fundamentally bad with with weighing statistics in their head (asymmetry present, this an introduction)....in the easiest of situations everyone calculates risks/benefits poorly. I suggest to you that this is like a "Earth is spherical or flat" deal of cognition, where....if you don't learn about how it works....you're in the Earth is flat camp when it comes to risk/benefit calculations. Not about Covid, but anywhere that you've got to compare old information vs forecasting perceived losses/gains.

But this, to some amount, requires education. And if you don't educate yourself with books on the subjects (statistics, maths) then you can't know what you can't see...which is why the question about 1918, etc. Now, if you do read about that stuff, you can learn how big corporations, etc, take advantage of people by exploiting their faulty risk/benefit system. If you don't, if one just keeps going by gut instinct (which is somewhat of a caveman faculty of decision making)...one ought to expect to be in for rude surprises from time to time when reality comes crashing down. I suppose if one is in the US they can resort to guns to keep reality away (de-evolution), but I hope the rest of the world can learn something from the US experience here.

They can target whoever they want in the cross hairs and they will for sure, but it should still be up to that individual to either take or not take the vaccine without discrimination - There is a pretty good knowledge base of who is at risk and who works with those people so why do I need to choose anything, except if I take the vaccine or not - We're not talking about Mask wearing here, we are talking about being injected with something that programs your cells to do certain things and which as you will have to agree is still an experimental vaccine and I find it truly crazy that you would want to force people to take it against their will. Once you give the mandate for the government to the mass use of medical interventions against the populace then where do you think that will go further down the line in time - No where good for sure, yet you are all queuing up for them to remove your freedoms because you have been sold the whole fear package and sucked it up.



You obviously have a lot of trust in the Government and Corporations and you fully believe all the propaganda that is being spewed out around this whole situation and FYI I have studied statistics to a degree level and I can tell you that the statistic for a Politician or a CEO where the bottom line is concerned telling anything resembling the truth is near on infinitesimal.



As you should also know statistics are the easiest thing to tell lies with.


If those of us who oppose the vaccine and overbearing government control are wrong and this is a mass planetary killer we'll enter the Darwin awards and you guys will still all be safe as you will have had your cocktail of vaccines to keep you that way and all of us un-vaccinated will no longer be a problem as we will be 6' under.



With all the money being thrown around why have they not run mass testing for antibodies and T-Cells to see actually how many people have really had it? Surely that would give us a vastly better understanding of the virus and how it spreads and who is at risk. They banned that test where I live in West Australia - Why would they do that?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by UFO

............
With all the money being thrown around why have they not run mass testing for antibodies and T-Cells to see actually how many people have really had it? Surely that would give us a vastly better understanding of the virus and how it spreads and who is at risk. They banned that test where I live in West Australia - Why would they do that?

(my emphasis)

This is interesting, I didn't know that even though I have family in WA. So it is actually illegal to have such tests carried out? What is the penalty?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Yeah, except I make up my own mind, based off my own experiences, not what others say is right and require you to take like gospel.

If you say so...

Though you seemed to quickly embrace a screenshot of explainable date errors as irrefutable proof of election fraud. What or who spoon-fed that to you, btw?

I’ll roll those dice.

That is, and will remain your choice. Choices have consequences. Like probably some restrictions on where the unvaccinated are permitted to go. It won't be permanent; I expect that COVID might eventually be regarded like influenza, and it will be one of the components of the annual flu jab.

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Front line “essential” freedom workers fighting for those who sadly became socially distant from the constitution and bill of rights

Speaking of front-line essential workers... I assume you don't need reminding that it's not we the yacht-owning class that are much at risk from COVID, it's the "essential" yet low-paid wage slaves and healthcare workers who are the most likely to catch COVID and burden the healthcare system when they're ill.

So you're really not risking "you" by refusing to get with the program, you're just dumping more onto the plebes, if you happen to help spread the virus. I know you're unconcerned for yourself but still, what a relief, eh?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by UFO

Have you ever wondered why the chronic illness rates are going through the roof in the last 30 years?

Hmmm. Could it be that people are living longer, from better healthcare... long enough to develop thise chronic illnesses? Or that we now have the ability to diagnose and treat more chronic conditions?

I know lots of retirees who are leading longer and more active lives, moreso than 20+ years ago. How many active 90 year olds with sharp minds are there now?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Hmmm. Could it be that people are living longer, from better healthcare... long enough to develop thise chronic illnesses? Or that we now have the ability to diagnose and treat more chronic conditions?

I know lots of retirees who are leading longer and more active lives, moreso than 20+ years ago. How many active 90 year olds with sharp minds are there now?

Well approx 1 in 2 Children in the USA under 18 have a Chronic illness and in the last 30 years I do not think that life expectancy has lengthened that much. Also in this bracket Auto-Immune issues are included as well, which is possibly just a spurious link to vaccines which work in that area or maybe not.



Now surely this is an area that serious research should be undertaken, but to date it has not been done - Wouldn't it be good to discount vaccinations from that equation in regards to the poor health of our nations and it would certainly remove a LOT of vaccine hesitancy from around the globe, so why have such mass and long term studies not been undertaken? Same as why NO studies by Official departments have been undertake to compare the short and long term health outcomes of Vaccinate Vs Un-Vaccinated - Again it would remove vaccine hesitancy, yet they have not done it - Why not?


There has been quite a few studies by universities in various countries into health outcomes of the Vaccinated Vs Un-Vaccinated and are well worth reading to broaden your knowledge beyond the official and limited pharmaceutical/government line - I will not get into those and leave it up to you to either look into or not.


I do just want to point out that Pharmaceutical companies are more interested in Profit than the long term health outcomes of people - Its not good business if you cure someone and they do not come back for more! As I have pointed out before, just look at how they peddled Opium based tablets and the massive social problems and deaths that this has led too and lets not forget one of their best selling pills, sold to treat Anxiety has a side effect of............ Yep you got it, Anxiety - That's Valium FYI and whoever came up with that as a business model was an absolute genius if not totally morally bankrupt.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by UFO

Have you ever wondered why the chronic illness rates are going through the roof in the last 30 years? Have you seen what the vaccine schedule has changed from and to in the last 30 years?

Correlation does not imply causation. It's the first thing anyone should learn at school, or even in life. You know what else has gone through the roof in the past? The number of people wearing yoga pants. Ah ha! That must be it!

Originally Posted by UFO

and well if you think it's 1 in a 100 for covid mortality risk then I fully understand why you are running scared for the hills, but in the real world the mortality rate is again very very small, so please stop pushing the 1 in 100 (1%) line as you as well as I know that is not true.

It's certainly not me pushing this 1 in 100 risk. Your sister in arms (Sue) is the one that keeps insisting on this number, and foolishly claiming it is a low risk. My apologies if you do not agree with her on this.

The fact is we don't yet have a definitive answer on how deadly this disease is. The case-fatality rate ranges from a high of 9% (in Mexico), to a low of 0.2% in Qatar. But we don't yet know that actual infection rates, so these numbers remain uncertain. The USA is currently running at 1.9% case-fatality rate, which is very high, but again, it's not possible to know how accurate this number is yet. As I've said from the beginning, it will take years to truly understand this pandemic.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Regardless, what can be said is this disease is very very (sic) dangerous, and has a very very (sic) high mortality rate. At 89 deaths/100,000 (a number we can be very very certain of) the USA has one of the higher mortality rates in the world. Covid-19 is on track to surpass heart disease in the USA, which has been the #1 cause of death in your country for nearly 100 years.

Modeling COVID-19 scenarios for the United States

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Wotname

(my emphasis)

This is interesting, I didn't know that even though I have family in WA. So it is actually illegal to have such tests carried out? What is the penalty?

Not sure of the penalty if any, I read it a while ago on the WA Govs site in regards to their response to Covid and what measures they were undertaking - Their line was that you take a while to develop antibodies, so its no good as a test for covid, which is not the point of the test anyway, But why ban it I do not know, surely its a good thing to know how many and who within a population has had the illness - The more data you have about it surely helps in the fight against it?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Correlation does not imply causation. It's the first thing anyone should learn at school, or even in life. You know what else has gone through the roof in the past? The number of people wearing yoga pants. Ah ha! That must be it!



It's certainly not me pushing this 1 in 100 risk. Your sister in arms (Sue) is the one that keeps insisting on this number, and foolishly claiming it is a low risk. My apologies if you do not agree with her on this.

The fact is we don't yet have a definitive answer on how deadly this disease is. The case-fatality rate ranges from a high of 9% (in Mexico), to a low of 0.2% in Qatar. But we don't yet know that actual infection rates, so these numbers remain uncertain. The USA is currently running at 1.9% case-fatality rate, which is very high, but again, it's not possible to know how accurate this number is yet. As I've said from the beginning, it will take years to truly understand this pandemic.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Regardless, what can be said is this disease is very very (sic) dangerous, and has a very very (sic) high mortality rate. At 89 deaths/100,000 (a number we can be very very certain of) the USA has one of the higher mortality rates in the world. Covid-19 is on track to surpass heart disease in the USA, which has been the #1 cause of death in your country for nearly 100 years.

Modeling COVID-19 scenarios for the United States

Yes without the data we are shooting in the dark, hence why are we not mass testing to see who has actually had it? Its certainly not for lack of $ or even manpower if they are going to jab 7 billion people. This is surely a crucial bit of data in our understanding of the virus and how deadly it actually is - From the few small studies done I have seen figures banded around that between 10 and 25 times the official figure have had the virus - That makes a MASSIVE difference to the mortality rate if we had accurate data. What we do know is that it is highly infectious which is why we are seeing so many fatalities, simply by the massive amount of people catching it.


On a slightly different note, my brother was feeling ill with a developing bad cough - He got tested for covid and was positive and was sent to the hospital and he was tested again and was negative and sent home - He got worse and went back to the hospital and was tested again and was negative, but on further testing had Pneumonia.


We probably need better testing for Covid as well if things like that are happening.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by UFO

Yes without the data we are shooting in the dark, hence why are we not mass testing to see who has actually had it? Its certainly not for lack of $ or even manpower if they are going to jab 7 billion people. This is surely a crucial bit of data in our understanding of the virus and how deadly it actually is...

Completely agree, although I think you sort-of answered the testing question yourself. A lot of testing, especially the so-called "rapid" tests, are of dubious quality. The full clinical test requires significant resources not easily found outside of rich, developed nations. Even parts of our large countries suffer from lack of lab resources. So it's not really lack of people, although that too is an issue.

A more viable assessment approach might be the one looking at waste water to detect the RNA signs of SARS-CoV-2. But only time will really answer this question.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Speaking of front-line essential workers... I assume you don't need reminding that it's not we the yacht-owning class that are much at risk from COVID, it's the "essential" yet low-paid wage slaves and healthcare workers who are the most likely to catch COVID and burden the healthcare system when they're ill.

Actually most everyone isn’t at much risk.

According to the deaths we have seen, those somewhat at risk from this thing likely don’t have jobs, as they are too old/near death to do much outside of lay in a hospital or nursing home bed.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Actually most everyone isn’t at much risk.

According to the deaths we have seen, those somewhat at risk from this thing likely don’t have jobs, as they are too old/near death to do much outside of lay in a hospital or nursing home bed.

NICE, your empathy and compassion shine right on through.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Actually most everyone isn’t at much risk.

According to the deaths we have seen, those somewhat at risk from this thing likely don’t have jobs, as they are too old/near death to do much outside of lay in a hospital or nursing home bed.

You said that you worked in critical care but you also said you lost your job. Did you find a new job? Still in critical care?

So far the US has lost more people to Covid who are less than retirement age than were lost in the Korean war. That cohort will surpass the Vietnam deaths in a month or so. This speaking nothing to the economic impact related to sustained tumult associated with simple uncertainty....having nothing to do with government shutdowns.