U.S. to close..

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by daletournier

It won't divide Australia, most Australians have already made up their minds "China are the bad guys", I've been back 8 weeks and I hear this daily. It's scary to me how quickly my fellow aussies have adopted this narrative, other than mainstream news headlines , very few have taken the time to question the narrative and look into it abit further.

I've recently read a couple of books on the new silk roads initiative, the infrastructure program is massive and involves alot of countries, I personally thing we need to show some diplomacy and try to seek a working relationship rather than just do what the US tells us to do, as Simi said, we are basically part of Asia, probably best to play nice , we will lose, not China....not to mention they buy 30%+ of our exports.

I find it hilarious when aussies talk about the chinese base being built in the south China sea, that's one base, no one mentions the US base at Chagos or ascension island , not to mention the other 800+ bases around the world....but that's different, right?

You just compare chinas military base to one of the us????? Really?

You go ahead and stick to the US bad China good thing, never mind all that history.

Originally Posted by Paul L

The 3 groups I mentioned have a 2.6x to 2.8x higher death rate and a 3.7x to 4.1x higher hospitalization rate than white, non-hispanic. These are actual statistics rather than the risk of being in a land yacht.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ethnicity.html
Of course if the stats don't match your opinion then by all means ignore them and make up other stats. Or perhaps declare these stats as more proof that you are at low risk, so who cares.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I said.


If you’re already at, or past your “best by” date, or you’re suicidal level fat, or have a major terminal disease this Chinese born virus can be quite bad

For EVERYONE else, it’s a nothing burger.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

You just compare chinas military base to one of the us????? Really?

You go ahead and stick to the US bad China good thing, never mind all that history.





.

What history is that exactly?
Care to list it?

And how does it compare to the US?

Facts, figures, dates, links
Thanks

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

You just compare chinas military base to one of the us????? Really?

You go ahead and stick to the US bad China good thing, never mind all that history.








Yeah, that’s exactly what I said.


If you’re already at, or past your “best by” date, or you’re suicidal level fat, or have a major terminal disease this Chinese born virus can be quite bad

For EVERYONE else, it’s a nothing burger.

I didnt say US bad China good, please dont make things up. My point was "Hypocrisy",the US has more bases around the world than everyone else combined, and the reason I brought up Chagos as an eg is because ive been there and read and spoken about the history and removed people ".
I'm not sure we can take the moral high ground.

[Yihang]

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...-and-politics/

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/17/93532...-s-sits-it-out

https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-in...ry-has-arrived

If Australia play our cards right we are going to be in a good spot for the Asian century. While also still enjoying the benefit of historical and cultural ties with the US, EU and the UK.

Australia first guys...

[Mike OReilly]

TrentePieds is correct. One of the greatest determinants of health is poverty:


A correlation between obesity and income has only developed in the past 30 years

Summary: It is well known that poorer Americans are more likely to be obese or suffer from diabetes; there is a strong negative correlation between household income and both obesity and diabetes. This negative correlation, however, has only developed in the past 30 years, according to researchers. Since 1990, the rise of obesity and diabetes was fastest among the poorest US regions.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0201-x


*****
Income emerges as a major predictor of coronavirus infections, along with race

Individuals covered by Medicare, the vast federal insurance program for older Americans, who are poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, the public insurance safety net, were four times more likely to have been infected or hospitalized with the coronavirus than those on Medicare alone, according to billing records from more than 325,000 cases from January through mid-May.

For men, women and every racial, ethnic and age group of Medicare beneficiaries, the rate of coronavirus cases among those with incomes low enough to be on Medicaid is far higher than for everyone else in the analysis. Among those 65 and older, known in health-policy parlance as “dual eligibles,” 1,732 out of 100,000 people were infected, compared with 320 on Medicare alone, the data shows.

https://www.cms.gov/files/document/m...fact-sheet.pdf

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

A correlation between obesity and income has only developed in the past 30 years

Summary: It is well known that poorer Americans are more likely to be obese or suffer from diabetes; there is a strong negative correlation between household income and both obesity and diabetes. This negative correlation, however, has only developed in the past 30 years, according to researchers. Since 1990, the rise of obesity and diabetes was fastest among the poorest US regions.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0201-x

Food deserts, lack of fresh fruits and vegetables are to blame. In Asia even the poorest person can go to a market and buy super cheap vegetables. But the poor communities in the US only have access to processed foods. While only the wealthy have access to whole foods, farmers markets and traderjoes. There's a few good documentaries on youtube.

really sad. Face of Hunger in the USA https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/hunger/

[UFO]

Originally Posted by daletournier

It won't divide Australia, most Australians have already made up their minds "China are the bad guys", I've been back 8 weeks and I hear this daily. It's scary to me how quickly my fellow aussies have adopted this narrative, other than mainstream news headlines , very few have taken the time to question the narrative and look into it abit further.

Wow its amazing how the media can get the masses of a country to think a certain way and believe a certain thing..... Makes you wonder if they have done that with anything else

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Food deserts, lack of fresh fruits and vegetables are to blame. In Asia even the poorest person can go to a market and buy super cheap vegetables. But the poor communities in the US only have access to processed foods. While only the wealthy have access to whole foods, farmers markets and traderjoes. There's a few good documentaries on youtube.

Indeed. In Canada and the USA, highly processed "junk" food is often far cheaper than unprocessed nutritional food.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Food deserts, lack of fresh fruits and vegetables are to blame. In Asia even the poorest person can go to a market and buy super cheap vegetables. But the poor communities in the US only have access to processed foods. While only the wealthy have access to whole foods, farmers markets and traderjoes. There's a few good documentaries on youtube.

really sad. Face of Hunger in the USA https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/hunger/

One of the many reasons I so love my times in Vietnam is the abundance of easy sourced green and fresh produce
Most mornings I would get up, jump on the scooter at sunup , ride down to the beach and watch the boats come in and sort their catch, grab a selection of fresh seafoid and then ride through the markets, not even getting off the bike and buy a selection of fruit and veg I can only dream of here.
Would stop at the 7 on the way home and get tropical fruit smoothies made in front of me, a shot of Havana Club if so inclined.
All for small money.
If only they would let boat people in (-;

Pretty much had the same replicated in Australia on my return, found veg and meat markets open at 5am, got the perfect bike, even found a place doing caphe sua da early am but then this bloody boat appeared and I haven't been on land since

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

One of the many reasons I so love my times in Vietnam is the abundance of easy sourced green and fresh produce
Most mornings I would get up, jump on the scooter at sunup , ride down to the beach and watch the boats come in and sort their catch, grab a selection of fresh seafoid and then ride through the markets, not even getting off the bike and buy a selection of fruit and veg I can only dream of here.
Would stop at the 7 on the way home and get tropical fruit smoothies made in front of me, a shot of Havana Club if so inclined.
All for small money.
If only they would let boat people in (-;

Pretty much had the same replicated in Australia on my return, found veg and meat markets open at 5am, got the perfect bike, even found a place doing caphe sua da early am but then this bloody boat appeared and I haven't been on land since

All this in a country where the Gross Per capita GDP is 1990 USD.

basics, people....basics.

yes, not that simplistic but I think if the US tried they can at least get everyone some baby spinach twice a week? Being the greatest nation on earth and all...

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yihang

How do you explain 300,000 excess death though? That is a lot of excess motorcycle accidents.

The curve also follows the covid spread.

You guys seem to ignore this every time someone mentions it.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

If you are looking for a single smoking gun...probably won't find it but many things are happening:
- People are avoiding emergency services for fear of catching covid.
- People are avoiding cancer screenings and treatments.
- Suicides are up
- Flu deaths are way down ironically.

I'm not suggesting there are zero excess deaths due to covid but you can't presume that it's all covid...and there is a huge difference between actually dying from covid vs dying from the response to covid.

PS: Over the summer, the UK admitted that around 10% of covid deaths were from people confirmed to have been fully recovered who later died of unrelated causes but the system had them listed as having covid, so into the total they went.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you are looking for a single smoking gun...probably won't find it but many things are happening:
- People are avoiding emergency services for fear of catching covid.
- People are avoiding cancer screenings and treatments.
- Suicides are up
- Flu deaths are way down ironically.

I'm not suggesting there are zero excess deaths due to covid but you can't presume that it's all covid...and there is a huge difference between actually dying from covid vs dying from the response to covid.

PS: Over the summer, the UK admitted that around 10% of covid deaths were from people confirmed to have been fully recovered who later died of unrelated causes but the system had them listed as having covid, so into the total they went.

You are right, a few posts down I said given the flu death was low this year at 20k lets move 20k over from covid. Maybe a few thousands more from suicide. Thats all well and good. Maybe 250k instead of 300k or even 200k. Still a big number.

But the idea that only 4 or was it 6% of the 300k is covid as sue has suggested is just not reasonable.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you are looking for a single smoking gun...probably won't find it but many things are happening:
- People are avoiding emergency services for fear of catching covid.
- People are avoiding cancer screenings and treatments.
- Suicides are up
- Flu deaths are way down ironically.

I'm not suggesting there are zero excess deaths due to covid but you can't presume that it's all covid...and there is a huge difference between actually dying from covid vs dying from the response to covid.

PS: Over the summer, the UK admitted that around 10% of covid deaths were from people confirmed to have been fully recovered who later died of unrelated causes but the system had them listed as having covid, so into the total they went.

Link to the source of this 10% claim please. First I've heard of it.

The CDC guidelines for assigning the cause of death have been posted here. They are clear, and they are the same ones used across western medicine.

If you have a problem with how they are written, then take it up with the medical profession. It's never been in dispute before. Only now, since Covid-19 has become foolishly politicized.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Food deserts, lack of fresh fruits and vegetables are to blame. In Asia even the poorest person can go to a market and buy super cheap vegetables. But the poor communities in the US only have access to processed foods. While only the wealthy have access to whole foods, farmers markets and traderjoes. There's a few good documentaries on youtube.

really sad. Face of Hunger in the USA https://www.nationalgeographic.com/foodfeatures/hunger/

It's a little misleading...at least in terms of cause and effect. It's really the market responding to demand.

Fruits and Veggies are a cheap option in the US but processed foods have simply won out in terms of marketing and it's won out the most in poor urban areas. When faced with fresh fruit or processed food, they buy the processed food. Now if you are running a grocery store and no one is buying your produce, do you expand the produce section? (The Whole Foods class warfare angle is way overplayed.)

To a large degree very poor countries will tend to eat more fresh fruits/veggies...not because they are more health conscious but because they are cheap and can be produced locally often obtained thru barter rather than hard currency. That gives produce an edge over processed in the market.

Interestingly, when we were in Thailand (one of those poor countries with lots of fruits and veggies) last year, we wound up talking to some old western guys at the hotel bar one day. They had noticed over the last 15-20yrs obesity has been on the rise (they were a little less politic about it). Google it and studies support the old guys. Over the same period, processed foods have also been on the rise.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yihang

You are right, a few posts down I said given the flu death was low this year at 20k lets move 20k over from covid. Maybe a few thousands more from suicide. Thats all well and good. Maybe 250k instead of 300k or even 200k. Still a big number.

But the idea that only 4 or was it 6% of the 300k is covid as sue has suggested is just not reasonable.

I agree 4-6% is probably equally as false as 100% of the listed deaths.