U.S. to close..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Marginally effective for short.

I see the discussion has raced on far beyond this point, and it has already been well answered, but let me just say you either misread the abstract, or misunderstood it.

[Mike OReilly]

The whole Barrington Declaration discussion strikes me as yet another supporting piece of evidence for my view regarding societal trust and social capital in general.

Without getting into the politics and weeds of the proposal (of which I understand very little), it seems to me that at its heart, this plan would be eminently sensible in a society that is cohesive and positively connected (or is highly coercive and authoritarian). In other words, it would be an excellent approach in societies like many Nordic countries where people really do seem to have each others' backs.

In highly individualistic societies (hmmm, can we think of an example ), it would be a recipe for disaster -- an even greater disaster than is already playing out.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

I must say I am absolutely not seeing masks everywhere surprisingly, still lots of cigarette butts unfortunately.

F-ing slobs. We don't have that problem here in Canada, people use GASP! ashtrays.


And masks...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The whole Barrington Declaration discussion strikes me as yet another supporting piece of evidence for my view regarding societal trust and social capital in general.

Without getting into the politics and weeds of the proposal (of which I understand very little), it seems to me that at its heart, this plan would be eminently sensible in a society that is cohesive and positively connected (or is highly coercive and authoritarian). In other words, it would be an excellent approach in societies like many Nordic countries where people really do seem to have each others' backs.

In highly individualistic societies (hmmm, can we think of an example ), it would be a recipe for disaster -- an even greater disaster than is already playing out.

A nuanced view, and probably right.

On another note, I just got off a multi-hour phone call (actually WhatsApp) with a close person in Moscow -- they are distributing vaccines there freely now! This is really big. They are going crazy in renewed lockdown, but the vaccine is now available to all Muscovites who want it!

Maybe we are entering a new era.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

And masks...

I spent those three weeks up-island (north Vancouver Island) a couple of months ago. During that time very few people were wearing masks -- at least not in the area I was located. I was often the odd-man out in the local grocery or booze store.

Same kind of approach in southern Alberta. I'd go into a grocery store and see maybe 20% of the people wearing masks. And this included staff.

All this was before everything really went into the Covid-crapper, so maybe people have smartened up, but I was pretty surprised at the lax attitude in these smaller, more rural areas.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...On another note, I just got off a multi-hour phone call (actually WhatsApp) with a close friend in Moscow -- they are distributing vaccines there freely now! This is really big. They are going crazy in renewed lockdown, but the vaccine is now available to all Muscovites who want it!

Maybe we are entering a new era.

That would be great... Although isn't this the vaccine that was announced a few months ago now? The one that seemed to come way too fast, with little actual clinical testing and no published peer review?

I'm definitely no anti-vaxer (as I hope is clear), but I'm not sure I'd be lining up to take that thing yet.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

That would be great... Although isn't this the vaccine that was announced a few months ago now? The one that seemed to come way too fast, with little actual clinical testing and no published peer review?

I'm definitely no anti-vaxer (as I hope is clear), but I'm not sure I'd be lining up to take that thing yet.

It is, they call it Sputnik V. They skipped the Stage III trials and just went straight to the population. And, apparently, it is efficacious AND no significant side effects.

We've been talking about balancing one set of horrors (lockdown, mass unemployment, suicides) against another set of horrors (mass death from COVID) -- well, how about risking a few thousands of people in the population on deploying an untested vaccine? I'm not at all sure that this is stupid, under the circumstances.


My friends have taken it.

[Gadagirl]

Diversity only becomes a weakness when racism rises. Which is what is happening now. Policy becomes deadlocked due to politicians adhering to their base supporters. So when a large portion are racially or religiously frightened of others, and another large portion are the opposite of that, well here we are.

And to the subject of vacines and denialism I read a very interesting article today that I'd like to share.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-denialist-playbook/

Please stay safe everyone!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...they call it Sputnik V. They skipped the Stage III trials and just went straight to the population. And, apparently, it is efficacious AND no significant side effects.

We've been talking about balancing one set of horrors (lockdown, mass unemployment, suicides) against another set of horrors (mass death from COVID) -- well, how about risking a few thousands of people in the population on deploying an untested vaccine? I'm not at all sure that this is stupid, under the circumstances.

My friends have taken it.

If I can get all strategic for a moment, we know that there's going to be a global advantage to the countries that get through the pandemic crisis faster. Reaching "herd immunity" sooner from managed spread, or through incompetence/indifference, is one way.

Getting there from a vaccine is another. Now, maybe our current western requirements for testing and confirming a vaccine contain many redundancies and bureaucratic red tape, so it's possible to get to a safe vaccine a lot faster if that is skipped. But, think about it - Announce your rushed vaccine with much fanfare, a mass inoculation program. If there's substantial immunity conferred... big win. If it's mediocre or ineffective, but at least safe... you'll see more illness than you expected. Either way, you still get through the pandemic faster.

If the Russian vaccine is genuinely effective enough, they'll get to the global market faster, and they can probably beat the prices on the Western vaccines.

It's brilliant. Dibs on the movie rights.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

We've been talking about balancing one set of horrors (lockdown, mass unemployment, suicides) against another set of horrors (mass death from COVID) -- well, how about risking a few thousands of people in the population on deploying an untested vaccine? I'm not at all sure that this is stupid, under the circumstances.

Depends who gets it first. If, as is being proposed here in the colonies, errrm states, the "first responders" get it first.....well I'm not sure that's the best group to be testing on if something ends up being wrong with it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It is, they call it Sputnik V. They skipped the Stage III trials and just went straight to the population. And, apparently, it is efficacious AND no significant side effects.

We've been talking about balancing one set of horrors (lockdown, mass unemployment, suicides) against another set of horrors (mass death from COVID) -- well, how about risking a few thousands of people in the population on deploying an untested vaccine? I'm not at all sure that this is stupid, under the circumstances.

My friends have taken it.

I truly hope it works well, but I would not line up too quickly to be one of those few thousand. They may luck out, or they may not. Given that at least two recent Stage III trials had to be halted due to unacceptable outcomes, I'd remain very cautious about a vaccine rushed to the populace.

[Wotname]

One issue with rushing out a vaccine is that if turns out to be unsafe, you have given a free kick to the anti-vac crowd as well as destroying your own credibility!

[AKA-None]

Well I’ve been offered the opportunity to participate in a vaccine trial. Haven’t read the details yet but I’ll let you know if I decide to participate

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

F-ing slobs. We don't have that problem here in Canada, people use GASP! ashtrays.


And masks...[emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]

I wish that were true (about cig butts)!

(Yes, most wearing masks, at least inside.)

[atoll]

the vaccine might prove to be very effective,with few side effects,untill 9 months later when the first children start being born to vaccinated parents