U.S. to close..

[aqfishing]

Speaking of numbers, I know at least 4 people (friends) who tested positive and then the next day or 2 tested negative. They never got sick. Thats 4 of the 5 people I personally know (close friends group) who had reason to be tested and tested positive. Does not say much for the accuracy of the testing. (In my town anyway!)

Conversely I am sure a large number also go un tested. As mentioned above somewhere.

False test results must be messing with the numbers.

[Lake-Effect]

When comparing the costs of lockdowns and restrictions vs widespread illness, be sure to consider the impact and ongoing cost of "long covid":

Although it’s unclear how many Covid survivors become long haulers, a study under way in the U.K. with more than 4 million participants has found that 1 in 10 people is sick for at least four weeks. Surprisingly, people with mild cases of the disease are more likely to have a variety of “strange” symptoms that come and go over a longer period, according to Tim Spector, professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London, who’s leading the study.

King’s College researchers say their data suggest that, of those affected by the first wave of the virus in the U.K., 300,000 people would have had Covid symptoms for a month and 60,000 for three months or more. “This is the other side of Covid: the long haulers that could turn out to be a bigger public-health problem than excess deaths from Covid-19, which mainly affect the susceptible elderly,” Spector wrote...

[goboatingnow]

There never was a lockdown in the US that I saw, every gas station was open, highways full of traffic and people shopping in stores is what i saw. Sure you couldn’t go out to eat or get your hair cut, but you could still buy TV’s and every other single consumer good. Amazon never stopped delivering, and you got take out food, people never had to cook for themselves.

no country has had any sort of hyper severe lockdown for any length of time , everyone understands that essential sections of the economy must function

But it has been proven that preventing social gatherings is a way to reduce the spread of Covid and reduce the chance of over burdening the health system

Hence the brunt of the lockdowns are on the hospitality sector

I dont see your point, you seem to be suggesting because a lockdown isnt total , it shouldnt be used at all, !!!

[goboatingnow]

This leaves "death panels" to decide things like which sick patient on the government health care plan gets the one Heart available, and who dies.

you mean in fact the death panels that are insurers who have cover limits , or people who in the first case cant afford the medical care/insurance anyway. They are real death panels

[SalingSue]

I think lots of people who got duped and paid a heavy price for it on covid 1.0, wont be closing down regardless for Covid 2.0. The thing has over a 99% survival rate, more marketing than medical.

I can tell you in lots of states people just are not having any of it anymore.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

no country has had any sort of hyper severe lockdown for any length of time , everyone understands that essential sections of the economy must function

But it has been proven that preventing social gatherings is a way to reduce the spread of Covid and reduce the chance of over burdening the health system

Hence the brunt of the lockdowns are on the hospitality sector

I dont see your point, you seem to be suggesting because a lockdown isnt total , it shouldnt be used at all, !!!

I know more than a few serious medical people, during the height of the panicdemic they were more worried about being sent home or laid off due to lack of patients than being “overwhelmed”, well maybe “overwhelmed” with bills they can’t pay


Just say no to hysteria.

During medical training we covered mental issues, the instructor, a good ol southern boy, said
“If the patient says they see purple dragons, for gods sake don’t say you see them too”

Option one is you reaffirm their disease and make it harder for them to recover, “well I can’t be crazy the uniformed medical crew said they saw them too!!“. Two, he was calling your bluff and his dragons are actually pink and the only people who see purple ones are the evil lizard people, next thing you know he stabs you in the neck.

Point is, when it comes to mental issues, be firm, be polite, but don’t give harbor to mass hysteria or other irrational phobias.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

I think lots of people who got duped and paid a heavy price for it on covid 1.0, wont be closing down regardless for Covid 2.0. The thing has over a 99% survival rate, more marketing than medical.

I can tell you in lots of states people just are not having any of it anymore.

using the US as an example of any sort of rational thinking at present on any number of topics is extremely dubious !!

You have a disease that has been politically weaponized and hence the decisions taken and views expressed are totally biased, very few other countries /Govs have gone down this road, yes there is always some descension , but the US is an awful exemplar

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

using the US as an example of any sort of rational thinking at present on any number of topics is extremely dubious !!

You have a disease that has been politically weaponized and hence the decisions taken and views expressed are totally biased, very few other countries /Govs have gone down this road, yes there is always some descension , but the US is an awful exemplar

People can’t afford to do this lockdown stuff, especially as it’s been easily witnessed that it doesn’t work, and the gov doesn’t make very good decisions, it’s amazing how many would trust basically the DMV lady with their retirements, homes, liberty and health.

I would also say it’s not just the US.

There have been protests all over the world against these draconian government reactions.

People don’t want to die, there is a reason people don’t protest the government for being not able to run over their own kids, folks know that’s obviously bad for them, crashing your economy and losing your job, unless you are paid by the tax payers, over a virus with over a 99% survival rate, tons and tons of people see that as a simple power grab, and more are joining them every day and after more and more bills pile up, and the more condensing finger pointing their millionaire government “leaders” do to them.

Seems this is more about big gov vs individual liberty worldwide, maybe minus the one or two counties who just weren’t having any of it from the start.

Italy

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CqvE_yPvmY

France

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ3GBVMR3JI

UK

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=txLqG-vSpa8

Australia

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u6A5awUpULo

Serbia

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IMTMbbLq11Q

USA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K33-sTb6EE0

Canada

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5cGsJjQZzzY

It’s like the people finally see where that single file line to the showers ends up.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

People can’t afford to do this lockdown stuff, especially as it’s been easily witnessed that it doesn’t work, and the gov doesn’t make very good decisions, it’s amazing how many would trust basically the DMV lady with their retirements, homes, liberty and health.

I would also say it’s not just the US.

There have been protests all over the world against these draconian government reactions.

People don’t want to die, there is a reason people don’t protest the government for being not able to run over their own kids, folks know that’s obviously bad for them, crashing your economy and losing your job, unless you are paid by the tax payers, over a virus with over a 99% survival rate, tons and tons of people see that as a simple power grab, and more are joining them every day and after more and more bills pile up, and the more condensing finger pointing their millionaire government “leaders” do to them.

Seems this is more about big gov vs individual liberty worldwide, maybe minus the one or two counties who just weren’t having any of it from the start.

Italy

France

UK

Australia

Serbia

USA

Canada

It’s like the people finally see where that single file line to the showers ends up.

Just one point , that Evebt in the U.K. was attended by just 400 people , 14 were arrested , one women denying Covid is employed by the nhs is under investigation

Hardly a national pushback more a collection of malcontents,conspiracy nut jobs and contrarians

It’s not any example of widespread reaction to national lockdowns , in fact in Europe most have the grudging acceptance by the greater population who are going along with the restrictions

[goboatingnow]

As for lockdowns not working , take a look at the numbers in the Republic of Ireland over the last three weeks of their lockdown. Clearly it works , do people want lockdowns, no, but they are a tool in the fight against Covid

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

People can’t afford to do this lockdown stuff, especially as it’s been easily witnessed that it doesn’t work ...

I wish that anyone decrying (or advocating) LOCKDOWNS would define what they mean, by the term.
I suspect it’s really just a hyperbolic catchphrase, most often utilized as part of the Covid “infodemic”.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

no country has had any sort of hyper severe lockdown for any length of time , everyone understands that essential sections of the economy must function
But it has been proven that preventing social gatherings is a way to reduce the spread of Covid and reduce the chance of over burdening the health system ...

Indeed!

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I wish that anyone decrying (or advocating) LOCKDOWNS would define what they mean, by the term.
I suspect it’s really just a hyperbolic catchphrase, most often utilized as part of the Covid “infodemic”.


Indeed!

Anything outside of “here are the facts, make your own decisions, if you are near death already we RECOMMEND to avoid large gatherings and dirty children” needs MASSIVE resistance and blowback, from posts on social media, well whatever social media that doesn’t censor, all the way to violence if needed.

When government attacks individual liberty there is history by the pound of the very dark road where that leads.


Side note, I have talked to many people about this, I have never found a person who thinks the VIRUS is a “hoax”, tons think the REACTION is dubious at best.

[Stu Jackson]

I remain amazed at how many people completely misrepresent the choices.


They are NOT binary, i.e., do nothing vs. lockdown


All the reputable health officials have been saying is to: wear a mask, practice social distancing and wash your hands, avoid large gatherings.


What is so hard?


If the freedumb group would just do that, it would help.


Instead, we get idiots repeating superspreader events and wondering why so many people are getting sick.


It's lunacy.


Nothing has changed since last January.



Why not at least try to do something responsible to help your fellow citizens?

[requiem]

Unfortunately ever since some muppets decided that turning covid into a political wedge issue would be a brilliant idea the UK and the US pretty much screwed themselves.

Exponential growth, as anyone who's seen a zombie movie knows, means things can get out of control pretty quickly. If you're waiting around to see mass graves, you'll have waited far too late. It's no different from handling a large ship; if you know you need to put the wheel over 1/4 mile before the turn into a channel, but you instead wait until you're lined up with the channel to do it, you're not going to make the turn. And the "not making it" is likely to be in a rather spectactular fashion.

Figuring out the death rate, modeling the spread, these are not new disciplines that are being invented just for this purpose. There is nothing new here; the idea of a possible pandemic had been identified as a potential threat in much the same way as other agencies plan for more conventional emergencies (e.g. a military attack or natural disaster). What matters is the response and the leadership. It's no different from when a few different doctors say "yep, it's cancer": you can go about addressing the problem effectively or you can opt for a fruit smoothie cleanse. Apart from the crowd that believes in such things I think few would be surprised at the end result. For a WWII analogy it would be opting to ramp up production vs proclaiming that nothing was wrong in order to avoid disrupting trade.

But pretending it's not there, or should be ignored? That's the modern equivalent of someone rushing around during WWII tearing down people's blackout curtains, complaining about the impact on the economy, and getting upset when being told that perhaps sharing the details of their job at the airplane factory with their new German pen pal isn't the best idea at present. Unfortunately in both the US and the UK some people have already decided to get violent, whether by spontaneous assaults on ordinary retail workers who merely asked them to wear a mask, or more involved plots against elected officials.

My hope is that we can catch this in time. I had a hard time thinking I wasn't reading The Onion when I saw the news about Charles Koch coming to realize how much of a mistake stoking partisanship had been. It will be close, but I think we can make it. Hopefully before other states join NY in having to dig mass graves.

[Yihang]

I don't think any kind of shutdown or mask mandate will do anything in the US, not because they don't work but because it just takes 1% of the population to make it ineffective. And I think we know by now there is always going to be that 1%.

Nice collection of videos by the way. Religious nut jobs, guys with fishing poles, antifa looking types burning thigns and woman with purple hair. That's the kind of reaction you want? God bless America

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

People can’t afford to do this lockdown stuff, especially as it’s been easily witnessed that it doesn’t work, and the gov doesn’t make very good decisions, it’s amazing how many would trust basically the DMV lady with their retirements, homes, liberty and health. ..........

Actually it is easy witnessed to work - when folk want it to work.

Back in July (in Australia), these almost zero community spread (less than a couple a day) right across Australia then an outbreak occurred in Melbourne (Australia) and cases quickly reached almost a thousand a day (population Melbourne about 5 million).

A strong lockdown response was put in place for Melbourne and a lesser extend for the state of Victoria. Cases numbers plateaued and began falling. Lockdowns restrictions have significantly eased and will continue to fall away.

Currently Melbourne has not had a single case (or fatalities) for 17 consecutive days.

That video you posted of protesters in Melbourne was a rent-a-crowd mob of misfits, never-do-wells and miscreants (and oh I forgot, a sovereign woman or two) - maybe 500 max. i.e. 0.01% of Melbournes population. They are of low IQ and are best ignored.

Have a read about what happens in Adelaide (South Australia) when a new cluster (now 17) emerged after many months of zero community cases. In short, a fast and effective contact tracing and isolations swung into action. https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/coro...20-%2020201116

I do agree though, that many governments (maybe all?) make poor decisions on occasional and some more than occasionally and we all keep a sharp weather eye on them.