U.S. to close..

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

It's interesting to see how some allow their perception to distort facts. That might explain all the hyperbole over the past 4 years.

If you think March, 2020 was the date of the "original" estimate, you might want to do a bit more reading. If you were awake in January, you might have seen, heard or read the original estimate then to be 2 - 3 million.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

Further... perhaps you are referencing the Imperial College London report which estimated there could be as many as 2.2 million deaths in the USA. This also came out in March 16, not January, and is not far off the cited CDC March guestimates which had an upper range of 1.7 million -- BUT a lower estimate of 200,000. This reflected the huge uncertainty the scientific community was dealing with in those early days.

I can find no credible, or even semi-credible source, for your claim of 2 to 3 million. Please post them.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Rubbish
Look at Vietnam for one
100,000 people
Borders China and a few other countries.


Vietnam
Total cases
1,213

Recovered
1,070

Deaths
35

Mate, will you please stop letting facts get in the way of a good story.

[Chotu]

An unavoidable fact is that Covid infection rates are a good indicator of the strength and intelligence of a geographic area..

Strong and intelligent people can alter their behavior to avoid transmitting or catching it. Weaker and less intelligent people feel “uncomfortable” or “fatigued” with the steps necessary to contain the virus and ignore those steps, resulting in a mess.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

The only countries that have been successful at containing the virus are island nations. For all practical purposes, South Korea is an island nation. Trying to traverse their northern border will kill you faster than Covid will.



A complete shutdown only works in countries that can control their borders. We can't. Most of Europe can't.

Most of Europe went through a complete shutdown. Now, most of Europe is experiencing the highest infection rates in the world by far. France, Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy all are running higher infection rates per capita than the US and have been for around 2 months now. This is a pretty telling stat considering the US tests more per capita than any large country in the world outside of the UK.

Presumably you are referring to the USA. I am surprised to hear you say the USA can't control it's borders. What are the reasons it can't?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

A vaccine is the only solution. Ft Detrick has developed one the should be out this year ...

On what evidence, do you make that claim?

It had been reported (April 7, 2020) that the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID), at Fort Detrick in Maryland, had begun testing potential vaccines for the novel coronavirus on non-human primates.

But, on April 10, 2020 that was corrected:
A military laboratory on Fort Detrick is not currently testing a vaccine for COVID-19 in non-human primates.

The assistant to the secretary of defense for public affairs incorrectly said earlier this week that the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases started testing a vaccine in animal models. That is not true, said Lori Salvatore, public affairs officer and strategic communications director for U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command.

USAMRIID has not yet started testing a vaccine for the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, Salvatore said in an email.

➥ https://www.fredericknewspost.com/ne...7d0454f62.html

[NevilleCat]

Originally Posted by Chotu

An unavoidable fact is that Covid infection rates are a good indicator of the strength and intelligence of a geographic area..

Strong and intelligent people can alter their behavior to avoid transmitting or catching it. Weaker and less intelligent people feel “uncomfortable” or “fatigued” with the steps necessary to contain the virus and ignore those steps, resulting in a mess.

Ouch!
A bit harsh maybe?
I prefer to think of it as a population who is willing and prepared to accept a temporary loss of personal freedoms for the sake of the greater populous.
Perhaps a population that is willing to believe, (or give the benefit of doubt) that their leaders are at least trying to work for them and, even if they have no experience in the situation, might possibly be clumsily trying to do the right thing on balance.
America has a deeply ingrained and admirable emphasis on personal freedoms, but this attitude is not ideal in a pandemic situation when it is taken so literally as to compromise the safety of the general population.

[aqfishing]

Hope this is taken with the sense of humour as intended!



After Tuesday nights debate John Cleese (Monty Python) published this:

A Message from John Cleese to The citizens of the United States of America:

In light of your failure to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Arkansas, which she does not fancy).

Your new prime minister, Boris Johnson, will appoint a governor for America without the need for further elections.

Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.

A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.

1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.

2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix -ise.

Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').

3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication.

There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.

4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent.

Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.

Both roundabouts and metrification will help you understand the British sense of humour.

9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline)-roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.

11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager.

South African beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of British Commonwealth - see what it did for them.

12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters.

Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.

13. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try Rugby - the South Africans and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us. No more Orange Bowl, Rose Bowl, Cereal Bowl or Super Bowl. From now on..... get used to the World Cup.

14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.

15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).

17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; strawberries in season.

God save the Queen.

John Cleese

***just a note, this was not actually written by John Cleese! But it does make it funnier if you think he did. His type of humour!!!

[UFO]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

I certainly hope you are right, but I fear it is too late for us since we did nothing to contain it at the outset and allowed it to overrun the country. I just heard on the radio in my car that we had nearly 6000 new cases today in Minnesota, almost double of just a week ago. Meanwhile last month the Coastal Classic yacht race in New Zealand had 175 boats on the start line, no masks , no social distancing because they no longer have community spread.

Yes its all very good, but how will they or Australia ever open their international borders without getting smashed as they are now like tinder boxes.


I thought it was about flattening the curve not trying to exterminate something you can not exterminate.


Please don't say vaccine, as even the best ones for other illnesses which have been around for a very long time are nowhere near 100% effective and last i had heard they were talking about a 40% efficacy rate for Covid.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Hope this is taken with the sense of humour as intended!



After Tuesday nights debate John Cleese (Monty Python) published this:

A Message from John Cleese to The citizens of the United States of America:

In light of your failure to nominate competent candidates for President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Arkansas, which she does not fancy).

Your new prime minister, Boris Johnson, will appoint a governor for America without the need for further elections.

Congress and the Senate will be disbanded.

A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed.

To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary.

1. Then look up aluminium, and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.

2. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'favour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix -ize will be replaced by the suffix -ise.

Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').

3. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication.

There is no such thing as US English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell- checker will be adjusted to take account of the reinstated letter 'u' and the elimination of -ize. You will relearn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.

4. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

5. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent.

Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.

6. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. A permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.

7. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and this is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

8. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.

Both roundabouts and metrification will help you understand the British sense of humour.

9. The Former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline)-roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.

10. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.

11. The cold tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager.

South African beer is also acceptable as they are pound for pound the greatest sporting Nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of British Commonwealth - see what it did for them.

12. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters.

Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.

13. You will cease playing American football. There is only one kind of proper football; you call it soccer. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies). Don't try Rugby - the South Africans and Kiwis will thrash you, like they regularly thrash us. No more Orange Bowl, Rose Bowl, Cereal Bowl or Super Bowl. From now on..... get used to the World Cup.

14. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America. Since only 2.1% of you are aware that there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the South Africans first to take the sting out of their deliveries.

15. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.

16. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).

17. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 pm with proper cups, never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; strawberries in season.

God save the Queen.

John Cleese

***just a note, this was not actually written by John Cleese! But it does make it funnier if you think he did. His type of humour!!!

Excellent couldn't have said it better myself

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Ouch!
A bit harsh maybe?
I prefer to think of it as a population who is willing and prepared to accept a temporary loss of personal freedoms for the sake of the greater populous.
Perhaps a population that is willing to believe, (or give the benefit of doubt) that their leaders are at least trying to work for them and, even if they have no experience in the situation, might possibly be clumsily trying to do the right thing on balance.
America has a deeply ingrained and admirable emphasis on personal freedoms, but this attitude is not ideal in a pandemic situation when it is taken so literally as to compromise the safety of the general population.

Except that there is no correlation between "temporary losses of freedom" and outcomes. In fact most of the countries with the best outcomes implemented the lightest measures, involving little to no "temporary losses of freedom". Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Finland, Denmark, Norway, anyone?

There is an immense amount of randomness in outcomes. It's a fools errand trying to prove that this or that works, because the outcome is good here or there. We really just don't know for sure what works.

And it's still early. It's not too late for a terrible second wave in, say, Viet Nam. This thing can flare up almost overnight -- Poland for example had one of the lowest infection rates in Europe during the first wave, then over about a month went to the second highest.

This would be a good time to be humble about what we think we understand about this.

[NevilleCat]

I think we do have a pretty good idea of what can work though.
Maybe not all things that can work, sure.
Back in July Victoria, Australia recorded 723 cases. On the same day the UK recorded 763.
Now the UK has over 20000 daily infections and 150 daily deaths and in Victoria we are now on the 10th day running with no new cases and no deaths. So far.
Unfair comparison? Maybe, but surely does give some indication of potential transmission mitigation possibilities.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Ouch!
A bit harsh maybe?
I prefer to think of it as a population who is willing and prepared to accept a temporary loss of personal freedoms for the sake of the greater populous.
Perhaps a population that is willing to believe, (or give the benefit of doubt) that their leaders are at least trying to work for them and, even if they have no experience in the situation, might possibly be clumsily trying to do the right thing on balance.
America has a deeply ingrained and admirable emphasis on personal freedoms, but this attitude is not ideal in a pandemic situation when it is taken so literally as to compromise the safety of the general population.

Straight truth, unfortunately.

Since I live here, I’m able to see it. Americans on a whole are quite weak and not accustomed to hardship. Some are stronger than others, or course, but the average is not good. There are too many that are not able to make simple sacrifices in daily comfort like previous generations did to overcome things like Nazis and whatnot.

Masks are uncomfortable. Not going out to socialize is uncomfortable. Large portions of our population have felt these things were too much to bear and decided to (even just a few times a month) give up on them. It only takes once to spread the disease.

Vigilance and attention to detail are not things we are good at at all.

Places like China, your country, Vietnam, even Nee York City, where people are a bit tougher, a bit more willing to accept some physical or emotional discomfort. Have done much better.

I’d say if the country knows what it needs to do yet doesn’t and blames it on the leadership, that’s just more weakness.

I’ve often said if there was ever a war that didn’t involve sitting on the couch playing video games (drones), and involved people having to fight we’d be done. In a way, this is that war. And we lost.

To put it in very extreme terms:

The global pandemic could be over if every citizen of the Earth were confined to their bedroom/kitchen for 2-3 weeks, all at the same time. No cheating. The flu and common cold would be wiped out at the same time as a bonus. Yes, it would be a hardship, but it would also be the best solution for the economy, no masks required and it would actually be the least amount of social distancing needed. It would be straight back to raves and sports arenas when it was over. It would take strength. But... we could do it.

However, we do not have the strength.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Except that there is no correlation between "temporary losses of freedom" and outcomes. In fact most of the countries with the best outcomes implemented the lightest measures, involving little to no "temporary losses of freedom". Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Finland, Denmark, Norway, anyone?

There is an immense amount of randomness in outcomes. It's a fools errand trying to prove that this or that works, because the outcome is good here or there. We really just don't know for sure what works.

And it's still early. It's not too late for a terrible second wave in, say, Viet Nam. This thing can flare up almost overnight -- Poland for example had one of the lowest infection rates in Europe during the first wave, then over about a month went to the second highest.

This would be a good time to be humble about what we think we understand about this.

I disagree. From medical standpoint, we do know what works for all infectious diseases. We have been refining 'what works' for centuries now.

Quarantine works i.e. limiting the ability (and mobility) of an infected person to infect another.

This is not new.

How to achieve this socially and economically is the tough bit though.

[sailorboy1]

All these people reported getting the virus and so far I personally know - 0

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

All these people reported getting the virus and so far I personally know - 0

Lucky you.
➥ https://abcnews.go.com/US/faces-coro...ry?id=69932880
➥ https://time.com/5814406/coronavirus-obituaries/


The theory of six degrees of separation ("small world" phenomenon) contends that, because we are all linked by chains of acquaintance, you are just six introductions away from any other person on the planet.
Also known as the 6 Handshakes rule. As a result, a chain of "a friend of a friend" statements can be made to connect any two people, in a maximum of six steps.
Even though we’re now globally connected, we evolved in small tribes, and are thus doomed to fail to fully consider anything beyond our immediate social circle. We care about our friends, and we kind of care about our friends’ friends, but “anything more than two degrees is just some random person.