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Old 25-11-2020, 11:00   #1006
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
You state as a fact that the evidence is clear that Trump lost.

Others have a right to disagree with what you present as fact.

Can you prove that Trump lost?
Some things we accept based on a preponderance of information, even though none of it might qualify as incontrovertible proof. For example, I can't prove gravity.

To test what you actually believe... wanna bet $20 that Trump has lost the election?
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:01   #1007
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Re: U.S. too close..

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
I believe your first statement, but not the second. Just my perception.
I only have my perspective as a voter.

My personal perspective is that I voted early and I did not witness voting fraud.

Everything else about the election I have read online and I take all of it with a grain of salt.

What I find amusing is the boaters who are so sure of things they read on the Internet.

I will say though, based on the videos available from a number of angles, that Kyle Rittenhouse acted in self defense, although that is just my opinion and may not be fact.

I figured I’d throw you a bone^^^^
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:05   #1008
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
You state as a fact that the evidence is clear that Trump lost.

Others have a right to disagree with what you present as fact.

Can you prove that Trump lost?
I already stated the criteria by which I judge these matters. Evidence, data, and the analysis of credible experts. ALL indicate Trump lost. If new evidence emerges I will change my decision, but no such evidence has yet been presented.

BTW, these are the same criteria which allowed Trump to claim an "overwhelming victory" in 2016. And it is the same criteria which had Clinton concede and the former president inviting president-elect Trump to the White House.


BTW, this raises the whole notion of reality and truth. As the saying goes, you have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts.

Facts are not dependent on your (or my) opinion. So far all the facts show a clear Biden victory. If new evidence and facts come to light, I will follow those as well. But with each passing day these claims that there are new facts to be revealed become less and less credible.
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:06   #1009
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
I will say though, based on the videos available from a number of angles, that Kyle Rittenhouse acted in self defense, although that is just my opinion and may not be fact.

I figured I’d throw you a bone^^^^

Kind of you. But the thread is already pretty broad. Pass.
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:13   #1010
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
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If new evidence emerges I will change my decision, but no such evidence has yet been presented.
An admission that all the evidence is not in is a wonderful victory for me.

Winning!
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:19   #1011
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Re: U.S. too close..

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An admission that all the evidence is not in is a wonderful victory for me.

Winning!

Another fine example of self-delusion at work .
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:40   #1012
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Another fine example of self-delusion at work .
It’s a huge victory for me that you admitted all the evidence isn’t in.

You’ve made my day.
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:44   #1013
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
To test what you actually believe... wanna bet $20 that Trump has lost the election?
No, I do not want to bet $20.00 that Trump has lost the election.

ETA: I change my mind.

I will bet you, right now, that Trump has not lost the election.
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:47   #1014
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Re: U.S. too close..

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No, I do not want to bet $20.00 that Trump lost the election.

Wise. I wouldn't want to dent your winning streak either.

Wait, what?
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:50   #1015
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I agree. Your government has been captured by the few and powerful -- those with money. It operates more like a plutocracy than a democracy.
I don't think that our government was captured by the few and powerful. It was set up that way.

I said something similar and got this:
Official Warning

You posted the following in the the thread about the US closing:

US is a Plutocracy. All men are created equal, meant all rich white men. Democracy is an illusion. People are told what to think. Our opinions are for sale. Aristocrats control politics.....[I deleted one sentence about an agenda].... Our rights are pretty much an illusion. But in this room full of mostly middle classed retired white people, the conversation ignores all of that. And while the media diverts our attention, our empire continues bombing the poor peoples of the world. The worst terrorists the world over (the US empire) But with good PR we don't have to think of it that way.....[I deleted another sentence about transhumansim]... I said early on last spring that we would be tricked into giving rights away, now we are begging to have them taken away. Giving up our right to assemble (unless on a Zoom meeting) is a pretty big deal!

This has nothing to do with sailing or cruising and is political weird rant. Please keep the to the subject in future posts.



Singularity, Pizzagate, really?

This thread went from US too close, to US to close. Then the thread was closed. Then re-opened as US too close. And has become overtly political so I don't think that I am off topic (I also got censored for insulting LE. Sorry about that, my bad for being belligerent, the IPAs tasted really good)

Something that I read recently struck a nerve: if the punishment for a crime is a fine..... (forgot how it went) but very unfair to the poor. I looked it up and see that some countries fine on a curve. (look up day fines)

Big corporations are fined billions for committing felonies and allowed to continue. They say fines are just a cost of doing business. Some of the largest pharmaceutical companies are convicted felons. They are currently in race to formulate the concoctions that will be rapidly injected into the world population. There are oil and chemical corporations responsible (and even convicted) of horrible atrocities yet they are still allowed to exist. I think that part of the reason people are so soft on them is that they have invested in their retirement fund into them.

I'll shut up for now, sorry if the thread gets closed. Go ahead and ban me if you want. Censoring of the media is all the rage these days. Glenn Greenwald resigned from the Intercept (which he founded), because they censored him. (look it up). Why do we use the words voter fraud ? If election fraud exists, is it fair to blame it on the lowly voters?

Going off topic, (and is completely irrelevant to anything being discussed, good for a laugh, no spoilers please,I haven't got to the end yet) but anyone bored enough to be reading this needs some good entertainment, I am watching the Tiger King docu-series on Netflix. It just gets stranger and stranger, all appears to be true with amazing footage and interviews of all the relevant parties.
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Old 25-11-2020, 11:56   #1016
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Wise. I wouldn't want to dent your winning streak either.

Wait, what?
Show me right now where Trump has lost the election and I’ll send you $20.00.

If you cannot show me now that, in your words, “Trump has lost the election,” I’ll send you $20.00.

I’ll give you 20 minutes.
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Old 25-11-2020, 12:08   #1017
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
Show me right now where Trump has lost the election and I’ll send you $20.00.

If you cannot show me now that, in your words, “Trump has lost the election,” I’ll send you $20.00.

I’ll give you 20 minutes.
So you're sending me $20 regardless. Saved for posterity. Do forum quotes hold up in court as binding contracts?

To be clear, the bet was "who has won", not "show me right now".
Quote:
I will bet you, right now, that Trump has not lost the election.
MY ace is that the election was on Nov 3. Regardless of when the final decision comes down, or it's formally whatever'd by the electoral college in December, the election was Nov 3, and Biden won it.
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Old 25-11-2020, 12:10   #1018
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
So you're sending me $20 regardless. Saved for posterity. Do forum quotes hold up in court as binding contracts?

MY dodge would have been that the election was on Nov 3. Regardless of when the final decision comes down, or it's formally whatever'd by the electoral college in December, the election was Nov 3, and Biden won it.
And yet, even Mike O’Reily admits all the evidence isn’t in.

You’ve got about 8 minutes remaining on your time.
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Old 25-11-2020, 12:20   #1019
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Re: U.S. too close..

This year, the Electoral College is scheduled to vote on December 14. Congress will then convene on January 6, 2021 to count the electoral votes and formally declare the winner.

A history of contested presidential elections, from Samuel Tilden to Al Gore
“... The elections of 1876, 1888, 1960 and 2000 were among the most contentious in American history. In each case, the losing candidate and party dealt with the disputed results differently ...
... The popular vote, of 1960, was the closest of the 20th century, with Kennedy defeating Nixon by only about 100,000 votes – a less than 0.2 percent difference ...

... While Republican-leaning newspapers proceeded to investigate and conclude that voter fraud had occurred in both states (Texas & Chicago), Nixon did not contest the results*. Following the example of Cleveland in 1892, Nixon ran for president again in 1968 and won ...”
More ➥ https://theconversation.com/a-histor...al-gore-149414

* In 1960, Republican Vice President Nixon sealed his own loss to Democrat John F. Kennedy when, in his role as president of the Senate, he counted and confirmed the electoral votes. Even though Hawaii had sent two sets of votes after its results had been briefly contested, Nixon asked for, and received, unanimous consent to count the state for his opponent since they would not have changed the results of the election.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
... Big corporations are fined billions for committing felonies and allowed to continue. They say fines are just a cost of doing business ...
Indeed.

Too big to jail: why the government is quick to fine but slow to prosecute big corporations
https://www.vox.com/2014/11/16/72233...on-wall-street

Risky Business: Top 10 Corporate Crackdowns
https://learn.censible.co/risky-busi...te-crackdowns/
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Old 25-11-2020, 12:21   #1020
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Re: U.S. too close..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Flare View Post
And yet, even Mike O’Reily admits all the evidence isn’t in.

You’ve got about 8 minutes remaining on your time.
Elections are won by counting votes. I didn't say anything about evidence being in, or questions remaining about that count. Only that Trump lost the election held on Nov 3.

Anyway, if we're going to be sticklers about semantics, you've already agreed to pay me regardless . So, no reply necessary.

And hey, I have no problem admitting that "all the evidence" isn't in... but enough of it IS for me to be confident of the outcome.

You're playing with us, or you have extraordinary hope. Either is ok.
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