U.S. to close..

[GordMay]

Comparing income taxes, in the United States and in Canada, requires an analysis of the benefits received for those taxes, and any other out-of-pocket costs outside of taxes.

In general, lower-income Canadians pay less in tax, for the services they receive, and rich Americans are better off than rich Canadians.
U.S. federal income tax brackets range from 10% to 37% for individuals.
In Canada, the range is 15% to 33%.
Canada has a higher average practical tax rate, than the United States, at 28%. In the United States, the practical tax rate is lower at 18%.
As such, the average post-tax annual salary in the U.S. is slightly above Canada’s.
However, the cost of living is higher for Americans (COL index 69.91) than Canadians (COL index 65.01).
This all gets too complicated, for me ...

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Let’s compare a few health care costs and benefits (outcomes) between the U.S.A. and Canada:

U.S.A. ~vs ~ Canada (rankings compare OECD countries)
Per capita health-care spending: $10,739 vs $4,500
Who pays: User out of pocket, or purchased insurance vs Communal taxes (NO out of pocket)
Health expenditures as a percent of GDP: 17.9% vs 11.6%
Life expectancy: 78.8 years (ranks 27TH) s vs 81.7 years (ranks 13TH)
Infant & Maternal mortality rate: 5.8 vs 4.7
Overall, Canadians pay less, for health care, to get better outcomes, than Americans.

The Fraser Institute not an independent think tank, but a politically conservative (right wing) and libertarian propaganda machine, funded and propped up by billionaires and corporations.
Eg:
➥ https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/frase...ique-1.3867927
➥ https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fraser_Institute
➥ https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...sive-smoke.pdf

Here’s a better report:
Wait times for priority procedures in Canada
➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/wait-times-fo...ures-in-canada
➥ Wait Times

Apples vs Studebakers.

Out of pocket vs taxed out of your pocket...it's still coming out of someone's pocket.

How much of the life expectancy and infant mortality is due to illegal aliens/undocumented immigrants making up a larger percentage of the US service users...They live a much harder life. And as we saw when the last administration came in, many ran for Canada...at first Canada was warm and welcoming...then they realized what this meant and the tune changed. With most northbound traffic stopping in the USA, Canada is effectively better shielded from low income/poorly educated immigration and there is a strong correlation between income/education and life expectancy. So while Canada has an immigrant population, it's mostly selectively chosen from higher income well educated potential candidates.

I'm not suggesting the US has the perfect "system" (actual top quality care, the US is where people travel if money is no object) but studies like the above are often highly misleading when they ignore structural differences.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

And quality, there is a reason being a doc in a socialist country isn’t as good as in a free world country. If you are good enough / smart enough you arnt working in a socialist regime, just talk to a Cuban lol

To be clear - do you mean the Cuba that has had the US kneeling on its neck for the last 70 years? That Cuba?

Because, despite all that, their medical system is pretty good. Especially their doctors.

Ask the average US family physician how much of his working week is spent doing paperwork and fighting with insurance companies.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Apples vs Studebakers.

Out of pocket vs taxed out of your pocket...it's still coming out of someone's pocket.

If it's apples vs Studebakers, then you can hardly claim that the money factors are equivalent.

There's the savings from the negotiating clout and organizational efficiencies of a single-payer system (again, US Drs have to spend 15+% of their time navigating the insurance maze), AND from the fact that lifelong preventative medicine is cheaper than acute medicine on demand.

How much of the life expectancy and infant mortality is due to illegal aliens/undocumented immigrants making up a larger percentage of the US service users...They live a much harder life.... So while Canada has an immigrant population, it's mostly selectively chosen from higher income well educated potential candidates.

That's just an untested hypothetical. US Immigration is probably too big a topic for even this thread. If you or I enjoyed US-grown and packed produce with our dinners last night, we should probably thank an undocumented worker for that.

You'd also need to compare aid programs for the poor in the US and Canada. And especially with the poor, free basic healthcare is less expensive than zero healthcare except for trips to the ER.

I'm not suggesting the US has the perfect "system" (actual top quality care, the US is where people travel if money is no object) but studies like the above are often highly misleading when they ignore structural differences.

The structure is the problem

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Pretty hard to fight a virus by yourself. That's like one person bailing out a sinking ship when everyone else is shooting holes into it.

But like I said even with a government mandate 48% of the population is always going to be against it just because it's their right to do so.

Maybe their 'right' is all these people have left in this changing world.

Lock yourself in your home.

Wear an m95 mask with eyesheilds everywhere you go.

Then MY behavior is irrelevant.

I hate to break this to you, but by the numbers if Covid is anwhere near as contagious as they say it is, we ALL are going to get it.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

... Out of pocket vs taxed out of your pocket...it's still coming out of someone's pocket ...

We all pay, for health care (SOMEhow), but who pays more?
U.S.A. ~vs ~ Canada
Per capita health-care spending: $10,739 vs $4,500
Health expenditures as a percent of GDP: 17.9% vs 11.6%

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Let’s compare a few health care costs and benefits (outcomes) between the U.S.A. and Canada:

U.S.A. ~vs ~ Canada (rankings compare OECD countries)
Per capita health-care spending: $10,739 vs $4,500
Who pays: User out of pocket, or purchased insurance vs Communal taxes (NO out of pocket)
Health expenditures as a percent of GDP: 17.9% vs 11.6%
Life expectancy: 78.8 years (ranks 27TH) s vs 81.7 years (ranks 13TH)
Infant & Maternal mortality rate: 5.8 vs 4.7
Overall, Canadians pay less, for health care, to get better outcomes, than Americans.

The Fraser Institute not an independent think tank, but a politically conservative (right wing) and libertarian propaganda machine, funded and propped up by billionaires and corporations.
Eg:
➥ https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/frase...ique-1.3867927
➥ https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Fraser_Institute
➥ https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...sive-smoke.pdf

Here’s a better report:
Wait times for priority procedures in Canada
➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/wait-times-fo...ures-in-canada
➥ Wait Times

How dare you use credible data and facts to illuminate reality. So much easier to lock oneself in your own echo chamber -- the one that keeps repeating that you are right (or is it Right ?).

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by GordMay

We all pay, for health care (SOMEhow), but who pays more?
U.S.A. ~vs ~ Canada
Per capita health-care spending: $10,739 vs $4,500
Health expenditures as a percent of GDP: 17.9% vs 11.6%

Overall it’s Canada, also their money is worth 75 cents to 80 cents on the dollar, I used to go up there and buy stuff all the time for the savings.

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

To be clear - do you mean the Cuba that has had the US kneeling on its neck for the last 70 years? That Cuba?

Because, despite all that, their medical system is pretty good. Especially their doctors.

Ask the average US family physician how much of his working week is spent doing paperwork and fighting with insurance companies.

If it's apples vs Studebakers, then you can hardly claim that the money factors are equivalent.

There's the savings from the negotiating clout and organizational efficiencies of a single-payer system (again, US Drs have to spend 15+% of their time navigating the insurance maze), AND from the fact that lifelong preventative medicine is cheaper than acute medicine on demand.
That's just an untested hypothetical. US Immigration is probably too big a topic for even this thread. If you or I enjoyed US-grown and packed produce with our dinners last night, we should probably thank an undocumented worker for that.

You'd also need to compare aid programs for the poor in the US and Canada. And especially with the poor, free basic healthcare is less expensive than zero healthcare except for trips to the ER.

The structure is the problem

I mean socialism communism infested Cuba.

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Lock yourself in your home.

Wear an m95 mask with eyesheilds everywhere you go.

Then MY behavior is irrelevant.

I hate to break this to you, but by the numbers if Covid is anwhere near as contagious as they say it is, we ALL are going to get it.

Good, I wish we all would have had it, it would end all the psychological issues, folks would maybe feel bad for a week or so and get on with their lives. Some who were about to die anyways might die.

But this is a virus where the reaction has been way more damaging that the actual cough

One plus with the covid, it makes people with weak minds or mental disorders easier to identify. The face shield, mask and gloves as you’re driving solo on your car while going to the fast food drive through

Or the mask as you ride your motorcycle without a helmet and wearing shorts, t shirt and flip flops...threat matrix...you’re doing it all wrong lol
Again, if you need a stint the time between finding that out and being on the table is way lower in the US, if you need a medevac out of the wilderness, if you need a cutting edge procedure etc.

Also who does more medical R&D, how about the covid virus all the crazies are all hot and bothered over?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Overall it’s Canada, also their money is worth 75 cents to 80 cents on the dollar, I used to go up there and buy stuff all the time for the savings.

If our dollar is less and we pay less per capita... how does that work out to paying more?

I don't myself know whether our universal healthcare system ends up costing more per citizen overall - do you? maybe we won't have a basis for comparison til all Americans have health insurance.

The face shield, mask and gloves as you’re driving solo on your car while going to the fast food drive through

Face shield, mask and gloves on a solo occupant? You're looking at a driver for Uber Eats or some other delivery service.

if you need a [stent] the time between finding that out and being on the table is way lower in the US, if you need a medevac out of the wilderness, if you need a cutting edge procedure etc.

Nope, I'd bet they're about equal. Your distance from a treatment center is a much bigger variable than whether you're in the Canadian or US system. btw, if a hospital is jammed to the rafters with COVID-patients, service will be a bit slower on those other things. Just a heads-up.

Also who does more medical R&D, how about the covid virus all the crazies are all hot and bothered over?

The US rocks when it comes to medical research, but so do many other countries. US medical research isn't being paid-for out of health insurance profits.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If our dollar is less and we pay less per capita... how does that work out to paying more?

Like I said, you're arguing with someone who insists 2+2=5. Don't bother.

[TrentePieds]

If I recall correctly, I was informed by an unimpeachable source that the 45th POTUS stood first in his class in Economics at the renowned Wharton School of Business. That may shed some light on why this thread displays some strange uncorroborated assertions :-)

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

Ah! Good to see that SOMEBODY is cluing in :-0)!

TP

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Also who does more medical R&D, how about the covid virus all the crazies are all hot and bothered over?

Um. Canada’s version of “My dog ate my homework.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...4c3e7c3b5/amp/

Gord May. You just have to know where to post these links. LOL.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Um. Canada’s version of “My dog ate my homework.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...4c3e7c3b5/amp/

I wouldn't expect you to know about Quebec's unique track record with big construction projects. But yes, less than stellar performance.

[Mike OReilly]

Talking Cuba vs USA healthcare:

Health Stats: compare key data on Cuba & United States

And here are the per-capita cost for healthcare of all OECD nations:

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

If I recall correctly, I was informed by an unimpeachable source that the 45th POTUS stood first in his class in Economics at the renowned Wharton School of Business. That may shed some light on why this thread displays some strange uncorroborated assertions :-)

TrentePieds

45 or 46?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...104-story.html

There's no shortage of lies in politics.