U.S. to close..

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

How dare you use credible data and facts to illuminate reality. So much easier to lock oneself in your own echo chamber -- the one that keeps repeating that you are right (or is it Right ?).

No one said, the data was false...it was just used in a misleading manner when you don't factor in all the differences (admittedly a challenging task).

But as you say, many want to stay in their echo chambers and not consider anything that's mesh with that.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Talking Cuba vs USA healthcare:

Health Stats: compare key data on Cuba & United States

And here are the per-capita cost for healthcare of all OECD nations:

Lol, well when you are getting super sub par gov care, at least it’s cheap.

Personally when my life is on the line my first concern is quality, second speed.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

If our dollar is less and we pay less per capita... how does that work out to paying more?

I don't myself know whether our universal healthcare system ends up costing more per citizen overall - do you? maybe we won't have a basis for comparison til all Americans have health insurance.
Face shield, mask and gloves on a solo occupant? You're looking at a driver for Uber Eats or some other delivery service.

Nope, I'd bet they're about equal. Your distance from a treatment center is a much bigger variable than whether you're in the Canadian or US system. btw, if a hospital is jammed to the rafters with COVID-patients, service will be a bit slower on those other things. Just a heads-up.

The US rocks when it comes to medical research, but so do many other countries. US medical research isn't being paid-for out of health insurance profits.

How much does a bag of over cooked milk cost?

How much per gal of gas?

Global spending power etc

Also all Americans have care, if you have a major medical issue a ER can not turn you away regardless of ability to pay, it’s literally placarded in every ER

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Yous Canadians are just having a blast on this thread since it got changed back to too close. We gonna start a new thread: CA too close! Yous know that we are too polarized down here to mount a good defense. Give us break! We are trying to save the free world from the Commies, we got the Mexicans knocking on our back door trying to steal our jobs. You guys just sitting up there all smug, poking fun of our health care, at least we are giving the big corporations their fair share! We got the best damn government that money can buy. And we got the big guns so don't mess with us AY

Do you have any idea the death and misery communism/socialism/fascism/ism has taken on the world?

Frankly I’d rather the country spend more money keeping socialism out than worrying about a flu like virus with a 99% survival rate. I doubt I’m the only American who values my rights over my life.

If getting the wuflu gave me a 1% chance less of having my rights violated, I’d happily go get sneezed on.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

45 or 46?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...104-story.html

There's no shortage of lies in politics.

Cut Uncle Joe a little slack; he's going to have to tweet work night and day to come close to the Donald's first hundred days of WINNING.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Lol, well when you are getting super sub par gov care, at least it’s cheap.

Personally when my life is on the line my first concern is quality, second speed.

Ah... so no need to actually look at the data. You already know the Truth .

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

No one said, the data was false...it was just used in a misleading manner when you don't factor in all the differences (admittedly a challenging task).

How was it used in a misleading way? It shows per-capita healthcare expenditures, which is the main thrust of this tangent, along with a few other standard measurable comparators. What is misleading about this?

Originally Posted by valhalla360

But as you say, many want to stay in their echo chambers and not consider anything that's mesh with that.

Glad we agree .

[Thumbs Up]

Do you have any idea the death and misery communism/socialism/fascism/ism has taken on the world?

Is America a Fascist country?https://www.quora.com/Is-America-a-Fascist-country

We have a habit of overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing fascist dictators in their place.

Why don't you like my previous post? It is agreeing with everything that you have been saying.

I do value my so-called rights though. But we are not THE LAND OF THE FREE BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE, In fact the US has, by far, the highest incarceration rate in the world.

Do you have any idea the death and misery that our (US) regime has taken on the world?
U.S. Regime Has Killed 20-30 Million People Since World War IIhttps://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-re...war-ii/5633111

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Comparing income taxes, in the United States and in Canada, requires an analysis of the benefits received for those taxes, and any other out-of-pocket costs outside of taxes.

In general, lower-income Canadians pay less in tax, for the services they receive, and rich Americans are better off than rich Canadians.
U.S. federal income tax brackets range from 10% to 37% for individuals.
In Canada, the range is 15% to 33%.
Canada has a higher average practical tax rate, than the United States, at 28%. In the United States, the practical tax rate is lower at 18%.
As such, the average post-tax annual salary in the U.S. is slightly above Canada’s.
However, the cost of living is higher for Americans (COL index 69.91) than Canadians (COL index 65.01).
This all gets too complicated, for me ...

The extremely brilliant and extremely right-wing, anti-tax historian Paul Johnson, said (in support of what Gord is posting here) -- you can't compare tax rates between countries, without comparing what you get for those taxes.


When you take into consideration that in the Nordic countries, you get (a) all your education (including private schools, due to the right-wing idea of school choice which is rapant in the Nordics); (b) all your health care, in a system with the best outcomes in the world; and (c) no significant property taxes; and (d) no need to live in an expensive neighborhood, because it doesn't influence crime rates (which are near zero) or education of your children, and not to mention (e) no need to feel guilty that you are prospering over the bones of an exploited working class -- then, Nordic tax rates, which are very flat by the way -- don't seem unreasonable at all.


When you consider what we get for the taxes we pay in the U.S., i.e. f.a. -- we are heavily taxed.

[Thumbs Up]

On a different note. Here is a damning study: Positive association between COVID-19
deaths and influenza vaccination rates in elderly people worldwide
https://peerj.com/articles/10112.pdf
Got your Flu shot?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by GordMay

We all pay, for health care (SOMEhow), but who pays more?
U.S.A. ~vs ~ Canada

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Overall it’s Canada...

Apparently, you don't like to read.
How does Canada’s health spending compare?
All in n Canadian Dollars (2018)
OECD Average: $5,175 per person; 8.8% of GDP; 73% public/27% private
Canada: $6,448 per person; 10.7% of GDP; 70% public/30% private
United States: $13,722 per person; 16.9% of GDP; 49% public/51% private
France: $6,436 per person; 11.2% of GDP; 83% public/17% private
Germany: $7,760 per person; 11.2% of GDP; 84% public/16% private
Sweden: $7,061 per person; 11.0% of GDP; 84% public/16% private
Netherlands: $6,855 per person; 9.9% of GDP; 82% public/18% private
Australia: $6,488 per person; 9.3% of GDP; 69% public/31% private
New Zealand: $5,085 per person; 9.3% of GDP; 79% public/21% private
United Kingdom: $5,275 per person; 9.8% of GDP; 77% public/23% private
Per ➥ https://www.cihi.ca/en/how-does-cana...ending-compare

Or here ➥ https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

The US pays over twice per person, what Canada does, and over 1.5 times as much, as a percentage of GDP.

[Jason Flare]

On the positive side you evidently get what you pay for in Canada.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...in-canada-2019

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

On a different note. Here is a damning study: Positive association between COVID-19
deaths and influenza vaccination rates in elderly people worldwide
https://peerj.com/articles/10112.pdf
Got your Flu shot?

What a weird study. As far as I can tell, they're not attempting to draw a connection between COVID death and whether or not that person had the flu shot; they're just saying that the countries with higher flu vaccination rates have more COVID deaths.

So all it's telling us is that statistically speaking, the west may have good flu vaccination rates, but we sucked at controlling COVID. Well, duh.

... but, freedoms!

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

On the positive side you evidently get what you pay for in Canada.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/stud...in-canada-2019

Did you read the actual report?

The longest wait times are on less critical things, like joint replacements. Pro-tip: you don't go to bed perfectly fine on Thursday night, and wake up Friday morning needing a hip replacement. These things come on over a year or more.

Of course, since good little Canadians see their doctor at least twice a year, the doctors can see this coming. So if it looks like your hip is going to need replacement down the road, you get that referral to the specialist now, and if they confirm the diagnosis, you're now on their radar and wait time is minimized.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

... Also all Americans have care, if you have a major medical issue a ER can not turn you away regardless of ability to pay, it’s literally placarded in every ER ...

Privately-owned US hospitals may turn away patients, in a non-emergency, but public hospitals cannot refuse care.
US public and private hospitals, alike, are prohibited, by law, from denying patient care in an emergency. The Emergency Medical and Treatment Labor Act (EMTLA), passed by Congress in 1986, explicitly forbids the denial (or delay) of care to indigent or uninsured patients, based on a lack of ability to pay. But, once the emergency has been resolved, the hospital is under no obligation to provide further treatment.
EMTALA covers all hospitals that:
- have emergency departments, and
- accept Medicare payments from the federal government.
Since most hospitals meet both of these requirements, EMTALA covers almost every hospital in the country.
Despite the EMLTA, private (for profit) hospitals have been known to (rarely) refuse care, and/or dump indigent patients.*
However, hospitals are not shy about collecting from uninsured emergency patients. Their efforts can involve the hospital’s internal billing department, collection agencies, and even lawsuits. The collection process can be unpleasant: wages may be garnished and liens may be instituted on property.

* “Refusal of Emergency Care and Patient Dumping” ~ by Jeffrey Kahntroff and Rochelle Watson
➥ https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org...umping/2009-01


You’re right: Most (92%) Americans have Health Insurance Coverage; but a significant number do not.
In 2019, 8.0 percent of people, or 26.1 million, did not have health insurance, at any point during the year. The percentage of people with health insurance coverage, for all or part of 2019, was 92.0 percent.

Following the ACA, the number of uninsured nonelderly Americans declined by 20 million, dropping to an historic low in 2016. However, beginning in 2017, the number of uninsured nonelderly Americans increased for three straight years, growing by 2.2 million from 26.7 million in 2016 to 28.9 million in 2019, and the uninsured rate increased from 10.0% in 2016 to 10.9% in 2019. The number of uninsured has likely increased further in 2020.
In 2019, 73.7% of uninsured adults said that they were uninsured because the cost of coverage was too high. Many people do not have access to coverage through a job, and some people, particularly poor adults in states that did not expand Medicaid, remain ineligible for financial assistance for coverage.

Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2019
➥ https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-271.html
Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2018 ~ US Census
➥ https://www.census.gov/library/publi...o/p60-267.html
Percentage of People by Type of Health Insurance Coverage: 2019
➥ https://www.census.gov/content/dam/C...71/figure1.pdf

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by GordMay

However, hospitals are not shy about collecting from uninsured emergency patients. Their efforts can involve the hospital’s internal billing department, collection agencies, and even lawsuits. The collection process can be unpleasant: wages may be garnished and liens may be instituted on property.

Stop letting truth get in the way of others delusion.