U.S. to close..

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by Allied39

I dare say we are all just products of our experiences.

My experiences are that both my wife and I have both had "free" healthcare, her in canadia and me in australia.
We live in the US and would never, ever choose either of the free systems over what we have now.
That being said, we are not the type of folks that feel we deserve anything from anybody....health care incuded. I dont mind paying for health care, doubled in price thanks to obumma.....and still I would prefer paying than free.
When working in canadia my wife used to pay 60 cents on the dollar taxes....but yeah....the health care was free.....yay.

I dont believe many folks who have experienced both systems over a long period would choose the "free" systems.....unless they are the type of folks who feel they deserve to be given to whilst sitting about watching others do the work.

I am sure that there are many that disagree, but i really dont care. I have worked, paid taxes, run business, owned land and vehicles in multiple countries.
Retired at 40 because of the opportunities here, keep busy for the fun of it now.
My experience is that there aint no place on the planet with the opportunity and quality health care and freedoms that are here in the US.

Be sad to see it end and there's no where left to go.

But thats just the way of things, humanity at work. Yay.

Oh, and I dont even mind funding safety nets for the helpless.....its funding the hopeless that leaves me less than enthused.

Indeed

Absolutely we are all products of our experiences, mine just happen to be 180 degrees opposite of yours. I too have lived and worked in multiple countries, 5 to be exact. US , Aus, NZ , Taiwan and England. All except the US have a single payer health care system although Australia did not when I was there. I really don't remember the tax rates anymore except I was paying a 10% flat tax in Taiwan and they managed to cover everyone including me. In this country while the health care system is as good as most countries although I have read many times that health outcomes lag behind many first world countries but it is the delivery system where the problems are, so mant people are not covered or have ridiculous deductables that they can not afford in order to afford the premiums. Many states have programs to cover the poor, i'm in Minnesota and we have Minnesota care which im sure we are all paying for through state taxes, then there's Medicaid. Is a shell game and if we added it all up we are paying a lot of taxes too but most of us are getting nothing for it but hey, we can buy bombs. I would much rather my taxes were to go for a single payer health care system like all the first world countries have that covers everybody so no one goes bankrupt from hospital bills.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Allied39

I dare say we are all just products of our experiences.

...When working in canadia my wife used to pay 60 cents on the dollar taxes....but yeah....the health care was free.....yay.

I dont believe many folks who have experienced both systems over a long period would choose the "free" systems.....unless they are the type of folks who feel they deserve to be given to whilst sitting about watching others do the work.

I am sure that there are many that disagree, but i really dont care. I have worked, paid taxes, run business, owned land and vehicles in multiple countries.



Retired at 40 because of the opportunities here, keep busy for the fun of it now.

Wow. What a rough life. A perfect vantage point from which to assess the relative merits of health care systems.

[Lazy1]

The business of nations is beyond our control sadly and we are the paying pawns. The US has somehow agreed to be the world police and has sacrificed other services to it's citizens to support that role.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Allied39

I dare say we are all just products of our experiences.

My experiences are that both my wife and I have both had "free" healthcare, her in canadia and me in australia.
We live in the US and would never, ever choose either of the free systems over what we have now.
That being said, we are not the type of folks that feel we deserve anything from anybody....health care incuded. I dont mind paying for health care, doubled in price thanks to obumma.....and still I would prefer paying than free.
When working in canadia my wife used to pay 60 cents on the dollar taxes....but yeah....the health care was free.....yay.

Indeed, for the rich, there is no better place to buy front-of-the-line healthcare than in the USA. It's why rich people from all over go there.



But we're talking about the overall healthcare system. As a system -- one that serves the overall population of your country -- it does poorly. It does especially poorly when cost is factored in.


BTW, no one pays 60% on the dollar in taxes. There isn't even a 60 marginal tax rate in Canada, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Well said

Ditto.

[Yihang]

What are we talking about again? I think everyone agrees more expensive healthcare is better. Thats why people buy private cover in Australia albeit its only a couple thousand per year.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Allied39

I dare say we are all just products of our experiences.

My experiences are that both my wife and I have both had "free" healthcare, her in canadia and me in australia.
We live in the US and would never, ever choose either of the free systems over what we have now.
That being said, we are not the type of folks that feel we deserve anything from anybody....health care incuded. I dont mind paying for health care, doubled in price thanks to obumma.....and still I would prefer paying than free.
When working in canadia my wife used to pay 60 cents on the dollar taxes....but yeah....the health care was free.....yay.

I dont believe many folks who have experienced both systems over a long period would choose the "free" systems.....unless they are the type of folks who feel they deserve to be given to whilst sitting about watching others do the work.

I am sure that there are many that disagree, but i really dont care. I have worked, paid taxes, run business, owned land and vehicles in multiple countries.
Retired at 40 because of the opportunities here, keep busy for the fun of it now.
My experience is that there aint no place on the planet with the opportunity and quality health care and freedoms that are here in the US.

Be sad to see it end and there's no where left to go.

But thats just the way of things, humanity at work. Yay.

Oh, and I dont even mind funding safety nets for the helpless.....its funding the hopeless that leaves me less than enthused.

Indeed

My free healthcare experience in Australia was amazing but I do admit not entirely normal.

My free bulk billing Dr sent me into the free public hospital to get a double hernia sorted and arrange a time for surgery.
Next day as I drove home after my hospital consultation I got a call to go in the next day.
Job done and spent two of my 3 days in a private room with city views

Total cost zero.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Total cost zero.

I have no idea why anyone would pay for healthcare when it can be free.

[El Pinguino]

How Australia works....
If you are on the age pension or basic wage and as a result have no private health insurance....
You want to see the doctor? Take your pick ... either pay your doctor about $A70 and get about $A40 back immeadiately or find a doctor who 'bulk bills'. In the latter case you pay nothing... the doctor bills the government directly and gets maybe $A50 straight into his skyrocket.... lower consultation rate made up for by greater throughput...
Those figures are approximate.
Emergency treatment.... all costs covered by the government for all people.

Elective surgery is what you pay your insurance for..
No insurance then you may be lucky like Simi or you may have to wait several months for say a hip replacement..... you get the doctor you get and will end up in a public ward....

With insurance.... you go right to the front of the queue, have your own doctor or surgeon, private ward, etc etc...

We ... 2 of us in our 70's ... pay $A4000/$US3000 all up for our policy which has no excess and all the bells and whistles.
All I have been paying each year since whenever is a hundred or so for a couple of doctor visits and about the same for an annual visit to my dikdok which for some strange reason isn't covered.
Things are quiet just now but a six or so years ago I ended up on first name terms with the anaesthetist........

[Yihang]

Aussie aussie oy oy. Similar 90 percent cover in the usa for a couple in retirement is around 60,000 usd per year.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Allied39

When working in canadia my wife used to pay 60 cents on the dollar taxes....but yeah....the health care was free.....yay.
.....

60 cents in the dollar..... Golly...

In Australia if you have an income of $100,000 after deductions you will pay $22,875.... say 23% ... plus a 2% health levy... Medicare.

Top marginal rate is 45 cents on anything over $180,000....

https://www.ato.gov.au/Rates/Individ...ome-tax-rates/

I would far rather my tax dollar be spent on healthcare than foreign wars but me being rural poor and all that is a rather moot point....

[Allied39]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I have no idea why anyone would pay for healthcare when it can be free.

Exactly....you haver no idea.

IT"S NOT FREE!!!

When you take into account the avg price of a house in aus....NSW would be 600g. Stamp duty is so much it has to go on the loan....oh, thats right,,,you would not have heard of that before.

Oh, no 30 year fixed loans there .....think on that for a moment. Seriously...ponder that.

Half the cost of a case of beer ,24 beers,,is tax! A 100%tax on alcahol, Right now...budweiser is the cheapest beer in sydney at $60 !!! Thanks Bob Hawke...nice one!

Fuel.....where is it now?? $1.30 a litre.....I pay $1,90 a Gallon.

Seriously I could go on and on with the examples. But it's just a waste of time. The cost of living in aus is unbelievable by comparison.

You dont believe how much everything there cost and they can't understand how cheap it should be. It's not possible for either lot to comprehend it unless they live it.

And of course the whole 25 million people to 300 million people never comes into it.....it's a very different animal, common sense tells you that.

The min wage in aus is $20. A kid staight out of school flipping burgers gets $20 an hour,,,,,thats considered minimum......whats that tell you?

Probably gee thats great.....yeah if everything was the same price as here......BUT IT"S NOT,

IT"S NOT FREE.......I understand that you dont....cant understand.....but trust me, you got it good in the US.

I will leave it with a quote from an aussie farmer i know, a good hard working man.
"trying to make a living (in aus) is like living with a foot on your throat"

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Allied39

Exactly....you haver no idea.

IT"S NOT FREE!!!

When you take into account the avg price of a house in aus....NSW would be 600g. Stamp duty is so much it has to go on the loan....oh, thats right,,,you would not have heard of that before.

Oh, no 30 year fixed loans there .....think on that for a moment. Seriously...ponder that.

Half the cost of a case of beer ,24 beers,,is tax! A 100%tax on alcahol, Right now...budweiser is the cheapest beer in sydney at $60 !!! Thanks Bob Hawke...nice one!

Fuel.....where is it now?? $1.30 a litre.....I pay $1,90 a Gallon.

Seriously I could go on and on with the examples. But it's just a waste of time. The cost of living in aus is unbelievable by comparison.

You dont believe how much everything there cost and they can't understand how cheap it should be. It's not possible for either lot to comprehend it unless they live it.

And of course the whole 25 million people to 300 million people never comes into it.....it's a very different animal, common sense tells you that.

The min wage in aus is $20. A kid staight out of school flipping burgers gets $20 an hour,,,,,thats considered minimum......whats that tell you?

Probably gee thats great.....yeah if everything was the same price as here......BUT IT"S NOT,

IT"S NOT FREE.......I understand that you dont....cant understand.....but trust me, you got it good in the US.

I will leave it with a quote from an aussie farmer i know, a good hard working man.
"trying to make a living (in aus) is like living with a foot on your throat"

Nice rant
Full of mistakes but nice rant just the same.
Do you feel better now?

Right now...budweiser is the cheapest beer in sydney at $60

Dozens of different cases of imported beer here for as little as $32 a carton - thats $23 usd
https://www.danmurphys.com.au/beer/i...?sort=PriceAsc

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Allied39

Exactly....you haver no idea.

IT"S NOT FREE!!!

When you take into account the avg price of a house in aus....NSW would be 600g. Stamp duty is so much it has to go on the loan....oh, thats right,,,you would not have heard of that before.

Oh, no 30 year fixed loans there .....think on that for a moment. Seriously...ponder that.

Half the cost of a case of beer ,24 beers,,is tax! A 100%tax on alcahol, Right now...budweiser is the cheapest beer in sydney at $60 !!! Thanks Bob Hawke...nice one!

There is a reason nobody with half a brain lives in Sydney ....or Melbourne ... or Auckland.
Beer at $A60/$US45 a slab? Dan Murphy's have plenty at way less than that
.... no need to pay more than $A40/$US30 https://www.danmurphys.com.au/produc...tao-beer-330ml

Fuel.....where is it now?? $1.30 a litre.....I pay $1,90 a Gallon.
You have me there ...$A1.15 a litre / $US3.25 a US Gallon average today in Melbourne https://www.racv.com.au/on-the-road/...el-prices.html but then if I wanted cheap fuel I would move to Venezuala.

Seriously I could go on and on with the examples. But it's just a waste of time. The cost of living in aus is unbelievable by comparison.

You dont believe how much everything there cost and they can't understand how cheap it should be. It's not possible for either lot to comprehend it unless they live it.

And of course the whole 25 million people to 300 million people never comes into it.....it's a very different animal, common sense tells you that.

The min wage in aus is $20. A kid staight out of school flipping burgers gets $20 an hour,,,,,thats considered minimum......whats that tell you?
A kid straight out of school ...16yo.. gets 60% of the minimum wage which is currently $A19.84 .... $A11.90... or $US8.79 at today's rates.

Probably gee thats great.....yeah if everything was the same price as here......BUT IT"S NOT,

IT"S NOT FREE.......I understand that you dont....cant understand.....but trust me, you got it good in the US.

I will leave it with a quote from an aussie farmer i know, a good hard working man.
"trying to make a living (in aus) is like living with a foot on your throat"
Speaking as an Aussie farmer I can only assume he is in the wrong sector.... I've never had it so good.... and that is without any subsidies of the sort that US farmers thrive on...

So many factual errors let you down and make me think of Piggy Muldoon's comment re kiwis moving to Australia...

You are happy... I'm happy.... that's the important thing

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Allied39

...The min wage in aus is $20. A kid staight out of school flipping burgers gets $20 an hour,,,,,thats considered minimum......whats that tell you?...

It tells me something. So what kind of work do you do that allows you to retire at age 40?

Patents? Engineering something? New discoceries/technologies? Pharmaceutical research? Scienticific research? New invtention(s)?

I admire the rare American immgrant who relinquishes their former citizenships, commits/succeeds in the American experiece that isn't paid for by short-term get-rich schemes backed up by the American govt and paxpayer.