U.S. to close..

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think Trump is a loon and has an agenda...but that describes pretty much everyone in Washington.

Seriously - I know that when there's just two parties, and you don't support one, you're going to vote to support the other party, no matter who is their POTUS nominee. Or you might resonate with one or more of his positions. I get that; it's a rational choice. But to pretend that there's been ANY kind of redeeming feature of the guy, let alone state that he's no worse than the rest of DC... major powers of self-hypnosis.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Seriously - I know that when there's just two parties, and you don't support one, you're going to vote to support the other party, no matter who is their POTUS nominee. Or you might resonate with one or more of his positions. I get that; it's a rational choice. But to pretend that there's been ANY kind of redeeming feature of the guy, let alone state that he's no worse than the rest of DC... major powers of self-hypnosis.

Actually, if you pull off the media installed TDS blinders, he accomplished a lot of good things...because he's not a politician and didn't care what you think. He also did some crazy stuff but he's not the pure evil that the media portrays.

In a lot of ways, it's good to shake things up. I'm betting even the democrats will quietly look the other way and leave some of his changes in place. Most politicians are cowards who never take a stand. They may want to do something but don't want to take the blow back and risk their re-election to do what they believe is right...now they can just forget to undo the changes they liked and if anyone brings it up, they can blame it on Trump.

PS: I will agree Biden won primarily because many felt beholden to vote for the guy with the "D" next to his name. Honestly, I'm shocked they didn't just put up some random middle of the road non-extremist no-name politician. It would have been a blow out rather than a very close election.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Actually, if you pull off the media installed TDS blinders, he accomplished a lot of good things.

... list them, please. To save us both some time, don't include the things that ANY GOP politician not in jail would also have done.

PS: I will agree Biden won primarily because many felt beholden to vote for the guy with the "D" next to his name. Honestly, I'm shocked they didn't just put up some random middle of the road non-extremist no-name politician. It would have been a blow out rather than a very close election.

Biden IS middle of the road. He'd be a mild conservative anywhere other than the US.

I would have thought that the Dem ticket could be corned beef on rye with a side of slaw, and still have won... but I don't know everything.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, this gets to half of Arendt's message. Indeed, we are being manipulated. But the biggest manipulators of us are -- us. That's Arendt's real insight.



This is where I think you're fundamentally wrong. It's not (only) higher up. It's staring you in the face. And it's not really a failure to think. It's who we are, as homo sapiens.

You're looking for something external to blame. The truth is, we're all complicit. This is why I say conspiracy theorist types miss what is really going on by focusing on these more simple targets.

Quite right Mike!

Canadian Philosopher Marshall MaCluhan really captured the essence of this way back in the 60's when he coined
'The medium is the message'

.... but I doubt if he anticipated that
WE would actually become the Medium, thru social media.

Just like a story/ concept that gets repeated on and on, the message gets embellished and the formal Media often reinforces the negative aspect, even though they know its origins were political.... as was this vaccine reluctance.

We then have all the self appointed devils advocates, embellishing the negatives via social media

Sigh!...... I long for the simple life back in the Micronesian Atolls, where communication was eye to eye and reality was obvious.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Propaganda is a neutral term.

Very few people seek to alter peoples' minds for overtly nefarious reasons. Almost everyone operates from a perspective of good, or right.

Again, this is the real insight behind the banality of evil thesis.

Not sure I agree with that Mike.
There are many examples of "negative spin' via the media of a good thing, in order to no so much affect the eventual success, but more so the Timing and the Credit.
Again, the vaccine is a recent example

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Yeah...no

He said “is there a way” “do some testing” etc

He, at no time, told people to do any of that, give me a break.

I know trump derangement syndrome is a thing but





He’s done, and not done, some things which bother me as well, but I still don’t get as bent around the axle over nothings as some people do, Trump is going to have to pay a ton of money for all that rent in so many far left peoples brains lol

I agree, Trump is a Developer....
He is used to Brain Storming ....where people's ideas are thrown out there without fear of ridicule, until something evolves.....
Politicians on the other hand, regurgitate politically safe ideas, dressed in new words.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... list them, please. To save us both some time, don't include the things that ANY GOP politician not in jail would also have done.


Biden IS middle of the road. He'd be a mild conservative anywhere other than the US.

I would have thought that the Dem ticket could be corned beef on rye with a side of slaw, and still have won... but I don't know everything.

Removing regulation and easing up the insane taxes, I know more than a few people who expanded their business under trump, again this mostly matters to those who currently, or hope to one day, sign the front of paychecks, not just the back.

Installed justices who honor the constitution/bill of rights

Started pulling us out of the BS wars of Obama and Bush 2

New NAFTA is much more inline with helping America.

Stopped pretending china is a good place, or our friend.

Fixed some areas of the military that were getting a little tattered

Threw a big middle finger to the toxic PC culture.

Called big tech censorship out

Got the unconstitutional “fee” removed from Obamacare.

Removed the obama/biden “crime bill” that targeted minorities who committed victimless “crimes”

Had peace talks with North Korea

Brokered peace deals in the Middle East.

Removed some of the more crazy elitist “environmental” rules

That’s a off the cuff

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Removing regulation and easing up the insane taxes, I know more than a few people who expanded their business under trump, again this mostly matters to those who currently, or hope to one day, sign the front of paychecks, not just the back.

Installed justices who honor the constitution/bill of rights

Started pulling us out of the BS wars of Obama and Bush 2

New NAFTA is much more inline with helping America.

Stopped pretending china is a good place, or our friend.

Fixed some areas of the military that were getting a little tattered

Threw a big middle finger to the toxic PC culture.

Called big tech censorship out

Got the unconstitutional “fee” removed from Obamacare.

Removed the obama/biden “crime bill” that targeted minorities who committed victimless “crimes”

Had peace talks with North Korea

Brokered peace deals in the Middle East.

Removed some of the more crazy elitist “environmental” rules

That’s a off the cuff

I think I like you.

[Lake-Effect]

In the interest of fairness, I will try to be positive where warranted.


Removing regulation and easing up the insane taxes, I know more than a few people who expanded their business under trump, again this mostly matters to those who currently, or hope to one day, sign the front of paychecks, not just the back.
He just dumped gas on Obama's recovery to make it burn hotter and longer. Anyone with a ruler looking at the US economic performance since 2009 will see a straight line. Regulations - he mostly wrecked stuff that others will have to repair.

Installed justices who honor the constitution/bill of rights
Locked in conservative control of the SCOTUS. Shameless partisan. And a fluke, as to who quit/died and when.

Started pulling us out of the BS wars of Obama and Bush 2
I will concede this, though the way he threw the Kurds under the bus is a war crime.

New NAFTA is much more inline with helping America.
It's the old NAFTA with a few more gimmes to the US. not a radical change.

Stopped pretending china is a good place, or our friend.
I'll concede that.

Fixed some areas of the military that were getting a little tattered
Meh. And...Spaaaaace Fooooorce. Sure.

Threw a big middle finger to the toxic PC culture.
He replaced it with support for bigotry and xenophobia. Divide and conquer.

Called big tech censorship out
Partisan whining. See also: "librul media" and "fake news!"

Got the unconstitutional “fee” removed from Obamacare.
He was unable to completely wreck Obamacare. How do we score it?

Removed the obama/biden “crime bill” that targeted minorities who committed victimless “crimes”
(not up on this, so pass)

Had peace talks with North Korea
... that produced nothing but embarrassing video. And all while snubbing or insulting most of the US's traditional allies.

Brokered peace deals in the Middle East.
There's a difference between peace and completely siding with the conquerer while sh!tting on the underdog.


These are somewhat meagre achievements compared to the tumult, instability and anxiety he's caused. Would these not have also been achieved by a different Republican POTUS who wasn't quite as much of a mendacious D-bag? He's been worse than useless with a real crisis.

[GordMay]

We’ve been given extraordinary latitude (by CF standards) to explore some important, but controversial & contentious, ideas, on several of these Covid-19 threads.
Let’s not screw it up, by getting into overtly partisan squabbles.
We might try to keep the debates focused more on the ideas, and less on the personalities.
In that vein, I ask:
So, should the witness apologize for farting, at Wednesday’s election hearing, in Michigan?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The main purpose of vaccination is to stop the pandemic. For that to happen, a certain percentage of the population needs to be immune, either from vaccine or previous infection. Have you never heard of herd immunity?

That is why in the U.S. it is legal for the states to actually force people to get vaccinated.

There is more than one way for the general populace to get herd immunity, have you not heard of natural herd immunity?


Once again i state that vaccines should be a tool to protect those at risk and for those that work with those at risk.


As far as forcing someone into a procedure that they will not sign a legal document stating it is 100% safe to me reeks of government overreach and poor morals by those that would back such a thing.


Does no one see that where there are billions running into trillions of $ profit over the years for just this Covid Vaccine with corporations that really care more about their bottom line and share price than public health and safety there are major possible issues here?


Vaccines 100% have side effects for a very small minority ranging from mild to devastating to death - Roll this out over 7 Billion people and you get the idea.



Testing over 10 months 40K people for any vaccine in my personal eyes is not a great testing platform for what they are trying to roll out on a planetary level - There is just far too much politics, $ and propaganda involved in this - Just look how Fauci had to roll back and dig himself out about what he said about the UK regulator - Pure Politics and propaganda.

[Thumbs Up]

Has anybody else seen the new Borat movie?

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

In the interest of fairness, I will try to be positive where warranted.


Removing regulation and easing up the insane taxes, I know more than a few people who expanded their business under trump, again this mostly matters to those who currently, or hope to one day, sign the front of paychecks, not just the back.
He just dumped gas on Obama's recovery to make it burn hotter and longer. Anyone with a ruler looking at the US economic performance since 2009 will see a straight line. Regulations - he mostly wrecked stuff that others will have to repair.

Installed justices who honor the constitution/bill of rights
Locked in conservative control of the SCOTUS. Shameless partisan. And a fluke, as to who quit/died and when.

Started pulling us out of the BS wars of Obama and Bush 2
I will concede this, though the way he threw the Kurds under the bus is a war crime.

New NAFTA is much more inline with helping America.
It's the old NAFTA with a few more gimmes to the US. not a radical change.

Stopped pretending china is a good place, or our friend.
I'll concede that.

Fixed some areas of the military that were getting a little tattered
Meh. And...Spaaaaace Fooooorce. Sure.

Threw a big middle finger to the toxic PC culture.
He replaced it with support for bigotry and xenophobia. Divide and conquer.

Called big tech censorship out
Partisan whining. See also: "librul media" and "fake news!"

Got the unconstitutional “fee” removed from Obamacare.
He was unable to completely wreck Obamacare. How do we score it?

Removed the obama/biden “crime bill” that targeted minorities who committed victimless “crimes”
(not up on this, so pass)

Had peace talks with North Korea
... that produced nothing but embarrassing video. And all while snubbing or insulting most of the US's traditional allies.

Brokered peace deals in the Middle East.
There's a difference between peace and completely siding with the conquerer while sh!tting on the underdog.


These are somewhat meagre achievements compared to the tumult, instability and anxiety he's caused. Would these not have also been achieved by a different Republican POTUS who wasn't quite as much of a mendacious D-bag? He's been worse than useless with a real crisis.

Yuuuge racist and homophobic





Fact is gay people and minorities and Hollywood loved him until he took Obama’s seat.


Per the justices, how sad is it that the constitution/bill of rights is considered “conservative”
I mean what allows a small gay man to speak his mind and if need be defend himself from a much larger attacker, if not for his 1st and 2nd amendment rights.

The last two justices, based on their rulings, which is all I care about, they are constitutionalists, thought BK was a little soft on the 4th with his meta data ruling.


Also it’s about time for space force, just like how the air force came form the army, we are so invested in space at this point it really needs its own beach instead of being a side part of the USAF.


Every American should have a zero sums opinion on the bill of rights, virus, war, doesn’t matter, not a inch given.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Fact is gay people and minorities and Hollywood loved him until he took Obama’s seat.

He was just fine as a mostly harmless B-list celeb. Cameos in movies, some TV success, fabulous parties... Comic relief during previous campaigns (... the birther-in-chief... what a card.)

I mean what allows a small gay man to speak his mind and if need be defend himself from a much larger attacker, if not for his 1st and 2nd amendment rights.

Oh, I dunno... acceptance? A culture of inclusiveness? Legal framework? I know a few places that have managed it without gun proliferation. Have you asked many American LGBTQ+ folks how they feel about the last 4 years? Any guesses how your "constitution/bill of rights" judges are going to rule on same-sex marriage, transgender rights, Roe v Wade, refusing services based on intolerance religious freedom?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Has anybody else seen the new Borat movie?

No, Is it any good?