US / Canada border restrictions predictions...

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Pencil poised...

The higher death rate in your calculations reflects the sad fact that COVID-19 got into many rest homes before proper controls were in place.

There's not much pleasure in doing these comparisons, or understanding either. For the record, the US with 9 times as many people as Canada, has had 20 times the COVID deaths to date. So what? it's been a combination of factors, but luck is a big one; the US with its many airports and volume of international travel, got infected faster than Canada did. That's probably the biggest.

Righto.


Good patient care and controlling the spread of infectious diseases always comes down to luck. Science for the win!

[nwdiver]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Pencil poised...

The higher death rate in your calculations reflects the sad fact that COVID-19 got into many rest homes before proper controls were in place.

There's not much pleasure in doing these comparisons, or understanding either. For the record, the US with 9 times as many people as Canada, has had 20 times the COVID deaths to date. So what? it's been a combination of factors, but luck is a big one; the US with its many airports and volume of international travel, got infected faster than Canada did. That's probably the biggest.

It’s deaths over population, that is the only number that matters, deaths over number infected can be manipulated many way.......

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by rbk

Why because he’s sick of seeing people living off tax payers dollars who don’t want to earn their way? I’m not a Trump supporter but the majority of people on social assistance don’t need to be there period; and there is a big difference between need and want.

Agreed...Partially.
Some take social assistance who don't need it.
But....Nobody goes out intending to get sick. And medical expenses can cost you (Americans) your house.

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Seems like the USA spends about 3 times more than Canada on defense as a function of GDP so Canada can afford national health care.

And why do Canadians pour over the border to get US health care, re. Bellingham, WA.

We could go on here for 1000 posts...

Agreed.
You kill 'em.
We cure 'em.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by nwdiver

It’s deaths over population, that is the only number that matters, deaths over number infected can be manipulated many way.......

I am not going to argue with you except to say even deaths over population isn't more or less manipulable or arguable than the other metrics—especially in countries as big as the US or Canada—geography counts for a lot.

Personally total number of infections is the only metric I am willing to draw conclusions from and those conclusions are pretty sketchy—still, it's most relevant to me if there are 50 infected people wandering around or 5000 (must be my zombie movie training ). What "scares" me about this disease is it virility, not necessarily its death rate.

[Mike OReilly]

Case fatality rates are useful in comparing apples-to-apples. So, for example, it's useful in comparing nationally how one city or region of a country is doing compared to another. But given the wide range of unknowns, it is a poor measure for international comparisons.

This is why the standard metric is per-capita mortality. It's a much easier number to measure. It's still subject to manipulation, or more likely incompetence, but it's easier to measure deaths and total population. It's why it's used on the international scale.

[skipperguy]

anyone who doesn't realize the political component to covid19 isn't paying attention or has no math skills at all. i just calculated my "real" stastical risk of JUST being hospitalized. 1 in 2,000. considering other risks, is this really worth all the bloviating ??
I am in NH and enjoy some of the lowest infection rates but you can calculate your own risk by logging into the CDC. If it was ever true it is true today, paraphrasing: our greate
st fear is fear itself

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by skipperguy

anyone who doesn't realize the political component to covid19 isn't paying attention or has no math skills at all. i just calculated my "real" stastical risk of JUST being hospitalized. 1 in 2,000. considering other risks, is this really worth all the bloviating ??
I am in NH and enjoy some of the lowest infection rates but you can calculate your own risk by logging into the CDC. If it was ever true it is true today, paraphrasing: our greate
st fear is fear itself

Your assertion: chance of hospitalization from covid-19 in NH: 1/2000 = 0.05%
My assertion: Mortality rate NH 431/1360000 = 0.03%
Together: YOUR chance of dying in NH if hospitalized: 0.03/0.05 = 60%
Moral: State Dept of Health numbers are not all that they could be.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by skipperguy

anyone who doesn't realize the political component to covid19 isn't paying attention or has no math skills at all. i just calculated my "real" stastical risk of JUST being hospitalized. 1 in 2,000. considering other risks, is this really worth all the bloviating ??
I am in NH and enjoy some of the lowest infection rates but you can calculate your own risk by logging into the CDC. If it was ever true it is true today, paraphrasing: our greate
st fear is fear itself

You got a link for that?

[hpeer]

And for another point of view.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/n...-3-0-its-over/

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by hpeer

And for another point of view.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/n...-3-0-its-over/

The world is taking COVID-19 pretty seriously, but it's my impression that the "fear" factor, and the fear-mongering argument, are predominantly American. I do not find the same proportion of people making it, or the same stridency about it here in Canada. We're mainly just getting on with it, and debating the smaller battles like how best to open schools.

I put this down to COVID-19, like most other issues, simply being subsumed by US partisanship. One side chooses to downplay it, the other side resorts to shouting and hype to stress the seriousness. Add a big helping of leadership vacuum... poof: fear and uncertainty in the USA. (I believe this was a Jon Mellencamp song? )

Buried in all that article's handwaving about lockdowns (and seriously, where are there still near-total lockdowns in place??) was a link to this paper, which contained this nugget:

In this exploratory analysis, low levels of national preparedness, scale of testing and population characteristics were associated with increased national case load and overall mortality.

That's the truth, plain and simple, folks. The countries that had to resort to lockdowns did so mainly because they failed at the above. And now lockdowns are being relaxed just about everywhere, and we have learned enough about many aspects of COVID-19 that another total lockdown is very unlikely... so prattling on about "lockdown lunacy" is itself fear-mongering.

[Mike OReilly]

Pandemic has brought Canadians together, pushed Americans apart, poll suggests

Fully two-thirds of Canadian respondents to the Pew Research Center study released Thursday say they believe Canada is more united as a result of the coronavirus, while 77 per cent of U.S. participants feel precisely the opposite is true south of the border.

"In the U.S., where a patchwork of coronavirus-related restrictions reflects broad disagreement over the best path to economic recovery while mitigating the spread of the virus, roughly three-quarters say that the U.S. is more divided than before the coronavirus outbreak," the centre said in a release.

"In contrast, nearly three-quarters in Denmark say there is more unity now than before the coronavirus outbreak. More than half in Canada, Sweden, South Korea and Australia also say their countries have become more united since the coronavirus outbreak."

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Pandemic has brought Canadians together, pushed Americans apart, poll suggests

Not sure it has made us any more united but I am sure it has made it so we can more easily identify the crackpots and just put them on ignore.

[S/V Adeline]

Simply put, the world tends to see the U.S. as a single country (which it is, fair point) but the actual government is far more complicated. Each state and territory has its own unique government, operating with and independent of the federal government at the same time. To make it even more chaotic, interstate relationships vary from state to state. Maybe the *president/leader* of your country can order a lockdown, but the president of the U.S. does not have that authority (falls to 57 governors who obviously don't agree with each other on the matter)
Being this is the first time in the history of the country such an event has taken place, it's interesting if nothing else.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

Simply put, the world tends to see the U.S. as a single country (which it is, fair point) but the actual government is far more complicated. Each state and territory has its own unique government, operating with and independent of the federal government at the same time. To make it even more chaotic, interstate relationships vary from state to state. Maybe the *president/leader* of your country can order a lockdown, but the president of the U.S. does not have that authority (falls to 57 governors who obviously don't agree with each other on the matter)
Being this is the first time in the history of the country such an event has taken place, it's interesting if nothing else.

Yes, much like Canada, or Australia, or other federal countries. Of course Oz only has six states and three territories. Canada has 10 provinces and three territories. Whereas the USA has 50 states and, what, five territories?