US / Canada border restrictions predictions...

[Joli]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Sorry. Can't read more than the first few paragraphs but...





The number of things that "could plausibly be" true are legion. I am in no way discounting the ideas or ignoring the conclusions that one could draw from various reports, but I see no need to take risks that can be easily avoided since the actual facts are few and far between. It's highly infectious, it can be deadly. For me, these are enough to warrant caution and engender a healthy scepticism of anyone couching their conclusions in "may" or "could" or "might." Even more so for those who chose to just blatantly state as fact that which is opinion or inference.

I fully agree. I think anyone in a high risk group should do everything possible to remain safe. Stay home! But for the rest of us..... life goes on and denying us liberty is where the problem lies.

Last week, in my age group, 63 people died from covid, of those 63 the number with comorbidities was ~ 59, possibly those 59 would have died anyways? So really we are talking about 4 people in my age group who died from covid last week. Surely this is a tragedy for those four but during this same week 1,772 died from the flu or pneumonia. I have never altered my life style in fear of the flu, why would I alter my lifestyle because of this virus?

Anyway, all the numbers are in the CDC reports and available for anyone to study.

This fall we will either sail to the Caribbean or the Bahamas. Some islands will be open, some won't. We'll go where we can.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Joli

I fully agree. I think anyone in a high risk group should do everything possible to remain safe. Stay home! But for the rest of us..... life goes on and denying us liberty is where the problem lies.

Last week, in my age group, 63 people died from covid, of those 63 the number with comorbidities was ~ 59, possibly those 59 would have died anyways? So really we are talking about 4 people in my age group who died from covid last week. Surely this is a tragedy for those four but during this same week 1,772 died from the flu or pneumonia. I have never altered my life style in fear of the flu, why would I alter my lifestyle because of this virus?

Anyway, all the numbers are in the CDC reports and available for anyone to study.

This fall we will either sail to the Caribbean or the Bahamas. Some islands will be open, some won't. We'll go where we can.

I agree. The attorney general agrees. He said our liberties are not in any way altered by a pandemic. At some point people will have to take responsibility for their own actions including their personal response to covid.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Joli

I fully agree. I think anyone in a high risk group should do everything possible to remain safe. Stay home!

I don't think you're saying "Good luck Grandma, you're on your own; my liberty is more important than your life"... are you?

So, where's the assistance and support so that high risk people can remain isolated without losing their jobs or going bankrupt from delivery costs? Where is the additional protection on hospitals, nursing homes and long-term care facilities so that their overworked low-paid staff don't bring it in? We need this stuff set up, so we don't have to re-impose lockdowns.

(And this has nothing to do with the Canada US border. Maybe continue this discussion here, which is the general COVID thread? )

[roland stockham]

Caution needed on the 'vulnerable people' and ages needed. Over the last month or so the age profile in BC has gone from above 80% seniors to a peak at around 40 and dropping. The initial profile came from substantial deaths in care home with very fragile people and it got loose in those situations. The current cases are community spread in younger people interacting socially. Also when comparing between 'flue' and COVID 19. Check the age profile. Flue is a common 'cause of death'on death certificates as people very close to death can catch it and be tipped over the edge. Very few healthy people die from flue. COVID is killing fit, young, healthy people with no co-morbidity. We do not know why the case fatality rate is so high (0.1% for flue 6 to 8% for COVID) but it does not seem to relate to either age or coe-morbidity any longer. Be cautious and stay safe

[nwdiver]

Originally Posted by yr2030

The pop of Canada is 37 Mn
As of this morning there was only 9054 deaths in the whole country.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...ection.html#a1

The death rate is 24 per 100,000 - NOT MILLION
Where I was born, has zip-zero-nada cases and no deaths. Greenland across the straits had 13 cases of the flu and Iceland where we still go to party had 10 deaths and 2000 cases out of a population of 365,000

Ahh, 250 per million is 25 per 100,000....what’s your point?

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I don't think you're saying "Good luck Grandma, you're on your own; my liberty is more important than your life"... are you?

So, where's the assistance and support so that high risk people can remain isolated without losing their jobs or going bankrupt from delivery costs? Where is the additional protection on hospitals, nursing homes and long-term care facilities so that their overworked low-paid staff don't bring it in? We need this stuff set up, so we don't have to re-impose lockdowns.

(And this has nothing to do with the Canada US border. Maybe continue this discussion here, which is the general COVID thread? )

Assistance? Are you kidding me? If you didn't earn it you won't get it. I guess you want assistance for a new car, house, boat, plane, etc. The world owes it to you doesn't it? Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

In the US, States made their own decisions on how to handle it.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Even recognizing the course of this claim, it makes little sense, and does not reflect what actually happened.


The states HAD to make their own way because of the shameless lack of assistance by the federal govt. in the US.


Big difference.


It was not the choice of the states to do without help that should have been provided.

[kmacdonald]

Leave the politics out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Leave the politics out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The issue is public health. And there's only one "guy" who injected politics into it. (Not you, either.)

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

The issue is public health. And there's only one "guy" who injected politics into it. (Not you, either.)

Good point. Politics and science dont mix well anyway. Politicians wont solve the problem. I wear a mask where I'm told I need to and dont mind that so much but I'm not giving up my travels or lifestyle.

[kmacdonald]

States were given federal assistance and guidelines that they could follow or not. Each states response was ultimately up to them and their constituents. Remember, not all states were playing the same hand and some states weren't even playing with a full deck.
Dont try and judge a states response by stats. Demographics play a much greater role than the response.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Caution needed on the 'vulnerable people' and ages needed. Over the last month or so the age profile in BC has gone from above 80% seniors to a peak at around 40 and dropping. The initial profile came from substantial deaths in care home with very fragile people and it got loose in those situations. The current cases are community spread in younger people interacting socially. Also when comparing between 'flue' and COVID 19. Check the age profile. Flue is a common 'cause of death'on death certificates as people very close to death can catch it and be tipped over the edge. Very few healthy people die from flue. COVID is killing fit, young, healthy people with no co-morbidity. We do not know why the case fatality rate is so high (0.1% for flue 6 to 8% for COVID) but it does not seem to relate to either age or coe-morbidity any longer. Be cautious and stay safe

Your numbers are way off for fatality rates for both influenza a a COVID. As it stands with confirmed cases of covid the rate (case fatality rate- CFR) is 3% but we know that there is a huge margin of error that has not been accounted for (unconfirmed and unreported asymptotic cases) which they do add on for the influenza at approximately 15% for the flu to make an educated guess if the infected fatality rate (IFR) Estimates put covid anywhere from 15% to 200% going unconfirmed. I personally believe it is on the upper end of the scale but only time will tell if ever. A truly accurate serology test is required to get the IFR for covid at this point as too much time has passed since the beginning of the pandemic and little to no testing was or is being completed.

[Buddy_Y]

For what it's worth.... About a month back in the Toronto Star (or was it the CBC site?), they interviewed an epidemiologist about when the border would open. The interviewer asked about opening up in Jan 2021. The epidemiologist's reply, as I recall, was to the effect: "That would be nice, but that would involve a miraculously fast vaccine advent. People need to understand that, given the US situation, even a fast vaccine arrival means opening the border up deep into 2021. And without a stroke of luck in the vaccine research, Canadians need to appreciate that there might not be an opening of the border in 2021 at all."

As a Canadian, I'm with everyone who is hoping hard for the vaccine, but is dead set against opening the border without one.

[kmacdonald]

Anyone hear about the effectiveness and safety of the Russian vaccine?

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Anyone hear about the effectiveness and safety of the Russian vaccine?

I don't think there is any real evidence because they skipped the Stage 3 trials. It may be great, it may not be, there is no way to know.