Warning about Ireland

[Networker]

This whole thread and the countless others like it is juvenile. Shut up, get the vaccine, and get back to life. Who has time to fight science all day? Focus on things that can make you a better person. Fighting vaccines and complaining about countries who won’t let you in because you’re too stupid to get one is a waste of time. If you don’t like it, move to the woods and stop trying to cross international borders. It’s only going to get worse, why complain and cry about it?

[Captain Bill]

For those comparing the 1918 flu pandemic death numbers, while your numbers are correct your point is totally irrelevant. If we in the 21st century had the best medical care that was available in 1918 many if not most of the individuals who were hospitalized would not have survived. The US death toll would be measured in millions, not hundreds of thousands. Conversely, if the 1918 flu pandemic had occurred in 2018 with modern medicine almost no one would have died. Recent studies on embalmed 1918 flu victims showed that nearly all of them died of secondary bacterial pneumonia. Because that pandemic occurred before the invention of antibiotics the pandemic was devastating.



Even today the US has such high numbers, primarily because many people refused to follow even basic preventative guidelines and refused to take one of the vaccines when they became available. If you lead a horse to water and you can't get him to drink, you're probably working with the wrong end of the horse.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

For those comparing the 1918 flu pandemic death numbers, while your numbers are correct your point is totally irrelevant. If we in the 21st century had the best medical care that was available in 1918 many if not most of the individuals who were hospitalized would not have survived. The US death toll would be measured in millions, not hundreds of thousands. Conversely, if the 1918 flu pandemic had occurred in 2018 with modern medicine almost no one would have died. Recent studies on embalmed 1918 flu victims showed that nearly all of them died of secondary bacterial pneumonia. Because that pandemic occurred before the invention of antibiotics the pandemic was devastating.



Even today the US has such high numbers, primarily because many people refused to follow even basic preventative guidelines and refused to take one of the vaccines when they became available. If you lead a horse to water and you can't get him to drink, you're probably working with the wrong end of the horse.

At this point we’re just letting the horses go to the water and drown themselves. The faster these idiots die the better. I love reading the news articles of this or that anti-vaxer dying in the news. The more outspoken they were, the more repentant they were on their death bed, the more schadenfreude I have. At this point, now that I’m vaccinated and will continue to get them as booster shots or alt-strains come out, the less I care as they become marginalized and irrelevant and their freedoms they love continue to get taken away.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

For those comparing the 1918 flu pandemic death numbers, while your numbers are correct your point is totally irrelevant. If we in the 21st century had the best medical care that was available in 1918 many if not most of the individuals who were hospitalized would not have survived. The US death toll would be measured in millions, not hundreds of thousands. Conversely, if the 1918 flu pandemic had occurred in 2018 with modern medicine almost no one would have died. Recent studies on embalmed 1918 flu victims showed that nearly all of them died of secondary bacterial pneumonia. Because that pandemic occurred before the invention of antibiotics the pandemic was devastating.



Even today the US has such high numbers, primarily because many people refused to follow even basic preventative guidelines and refused to take one of the vaccines when they became available. If you lead a horse to water and you can't get him to drink, you're probably working with the wrong end of the horse.

Reminds me of.....

[boatpoker]

I've only been to 3 countries since this pandemic began. In prior years I've been to somewhere around 30 countries.

I've learned never to go to another country without thoroughly understanding their requirements and doing my best to meet them.

I fully understand that each country has the right to make their own rules/ Whether I think they are stupid or not is irrelevant.

Anything less is either stupidity or someone who has never crossed a border before.

PS. I'm double vaxxed and stuck in Canada cause' the US won't issue Cruising Licenses to Canadian boats.

[curtis742]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I somewhat agree that many of the pandemic measures seem ill-considered and fear driven, however, the underlined part about the CDC and effectiveness of the vaccines is nonsense, and the CDC did NOT say that.


One more time for good order:


1. The vaccines are highly effective against all known mutations.

2. The vaccines greatly reduce transmission as well as symptomatic disease.

Actually the CDC has written the vaccine does not prevent one from catching or spreading the virus.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by curtis742

Actually the CDC has written the vaccine does not prevent one from catching or spreading the virus.

No one said it doesn’t prevent one from catching or spreading. It just nearly eliminates the possibility of getting a severe infection and dying from it and really lowers your rate of transmission to others. To the point of you do get it, you’d in all probability not even know it, and if you do spread it, the person that caught it, if they have the vaccine, it lowers their ability to get severely sick, lowers their ability to pass it on, and if they do, the next person has …. You get the point, making this yesterday’s news. The idiots who are unvaccinated and catch a severe case of it are the ones making it today’s news, but hopefully they die out soon so this thing dies out with them.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

............
2. The vaccines greatly reduce transmission as well as symptomatic disease.

Originally Posted by curtis742

Actually the CDC has written the vaccine does not prevent one from catching or spreading the virus.

Spot the difference - understanding what is written is the key to understanding the issue.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by curtis742

Actually the CDC has written the vaccine does not prevent one from catching or spreading the virus.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ed-people.html

COVID-19 vaccine efficacy, effectiveness, and immunogenicity

Immunogenicity is the generation of effective protective immunity against a vaccine antigen as measured by laboratory tests. Vaccine efficacy refers to how well a vaccine performs in a carefully controlled clinical trial, and effectiveness describes its performance in real-world observational studies.
Evidence demonstrates that the approved or authorized COVID-19 vaccines are both efficacious and effective against symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19, including severe forms of the disease. In addition, as shown below, a growing body of evidence suggests that COVID-19 vaccines also reduce asymptomatic infection and transmission. Substantial reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) will reduce overall levels of disease, and therefore, SARS-CoV-2 virus transmission in the United States. Investigations are ongoing to further assess the risk of transmission from fully vaccinated persons with SARS-CoV-2 infections to other vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Early evidence suggests infections in fully vaccinated persons caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 may be transmissible to others; however, SARS-CoV-2 transmission between unvaccinated persons is the primary cause of continued spread.

. . .

Infections in fully vaccinated persons: clinical implications and transmission

As expected, because no vaccines is 100% effective, infections in fully vaccinated persons (e.g. breakthrough infections) have been observed, albeit at much lower rates than infections among unvaccinated persons; vaccine effectiveness against severe disease remains high. From January through June 2021, COVID-NET data from laboratory-confirmed COVID-19-associated hospitalizations in adults ≥18 years of age for whom vaccination status is known showed 3% of hospitalizations occurred in fully vaccinated persons. In general, symptoms and duration of illness in infections among fully vaccinated persons have been attenuated compared with cases among unvaccinated people.

. . .

In studies conducted before the emergence of the Delta variant, data from multiple studies in different countries suggested that people vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines who develop COVID-19 generally have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people.(157, 165-169) This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission.(170) Studies from multiple countries found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.(171-176) For the Delta variant, early data indicate vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with Delta have similar levels of viral RNA and culturable virus detected, indicating that some vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 may be able to transmit the virus to others.(163, 164, 177-180) However, other studies have shown a more rapid decline in viral RNA and culturable virus in fully vaccinated people (96, 177, 180-182). One study observed that Delta infection in fully vaccinated persons was associated with significantly less transmission to contacts than persons who were unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.(181)

Together, these studies suggest that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta have potential to be less infectious than infected unvaccinated people. However, more data are needed to understand how viral shedding and transmission from fully vaccinated persons are affected by SARS-CoV-2 variants, time since vaccination, and other factors, particularly as transmission dynamics may vary based on the extent of exposure to the infected vaccinated person and the setting in which the exposure occurs. Additional data collection and studies are underway to understand the extent and duration of transmissibility of Delta variant SARS-CoV-2 in the United States and other countries.

[Knotical]

I saw the thread title and felt like this must be serious and worth reading, then I read the OP and it’s someone complaining about a country enforcing its pandemic rules, one unvaccinated out of ten is still one too many, follow the rules or skip that country, it’s that simple.

Btw, thread titles can be so misleading.

[SailRN]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Irrational to the point they view fellow human beings as a biological threat, and authoritarian to the point they would be happy to see people force vaccinated, or have government visit proxy violence upon parts of the population they deemed to be a threat. Madness.

Good for Ireland! It was irresponsible, as stated by others, for the boat not to check on entry requirements before departure. The crew was a potential (and likely) biological threat.

And it was irresponsible for the crew not to be vaccinated.

And if someone shows up at my door without vaccination I'm not going to let them in.
I care enough about other people that I volunteer as a registered nurse and volunteer fireman more than I work, and I'm astounded at the people that insist their rights exceed common sense and care and respect for others.

I got vaccinated, and still wear a mask and social distance, because I care. I have the right to remain unvaccinated and not wear a mask but I waive those rights for the common good.

[goboatingnow]

My commentary is based on local knowledge.

This story contains descriptions that simply don’t ring true in Ireland. Contacting the police before arrival to meet the boat , why? , armed border guards , don’t exist in Ireland. 5 days sailing to reach a non urgent medical appointment ?

I simply don’t think these are the facts.

A boat like this turned away by the rapid response armedpolice squad would be all over the news.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

For those comparing the 1918 flu pandemic death numbers, while your numbers are correct your point is totally irrelevant. If we in the 21st century had the best medical care that was available in 1918 many if not most of the individuals who were hospitalized would not have survived. The US death toll would be measured in millions, not hundreds of thousands. Conversely, if the 1918 flu pandemic had occurred in 2018 with modern medicine almost no one would have died. Recent studies on embalmed 1918 flu victims showed that nearly all of them died of secondary bacterial pneumonia. Because that pandemic occurred before the invention of antibiotics the pandemic was devastating.

I've read similar articles ... and I am calling bullsh** on it.

Even with modern medicine, the mortality rate of pneumococcal pneumonia is 20%.
Even with modern medicine, 50,000 Americans die of pneumonia every year.
Even with modern medicine, flu strains that we are incredibly familiar with kill 40,000 Americans per year.

Researchers have reconstructed the Spanish Flu DNA. One of the first things they noticed is that it generated an intense immune response in the lungs, a cytokine storm. Sound familiar to Covid? In mice, the Spanish Flu replicates 40,000 times faster in the lungs than other common strains of influenza. In humans, it often killed within hours of the onset of initial symptoms.

If we can't stop people from dying due to pulmonary edema and cytokine storms from Covid, then we are unlikely to stop people from dying of pulmonary edema and cytokine storms due to Spanish Flu.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by bdgWesternMass

Hard to say what the correct thing to do is, but the even with all the crazy measures the US just passed total Spanish flu deaths.

Can't run the experiment again but maybe some caution is warranted.

US Population: From 1900

Population of US in 1918, 100 million. Today 350 million. So the deaths from covid must be 3.5 times higher to "pass" spanish flu.

Also very interestingly the population dropped in 1918 but no other years.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...tes/population

The population of the us continues to increase in 2020 and 2021 with no noticeable effect in rate of change either. I don't see how covid19 is anywhere near as deadly as spanish flu was.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

This is what happens to lots of people after they've been subjected to fear mongering and told that there's an existential threat out there. They become irrational and authoritarian. Irrational to the point they view fellow human beings as a biological threat, and authoritarian to the point they would be happy to see people force vaccinated, or have government visit proxy violence upon parts of the population they deemed to be a threat. Madness.

All this gaslighting insanity that makes people crazy because all they hear is this contradictory nonsense all the time, it ****s with their head.


Meanwhile, in the realm of sanity.
CDC has stated that the vaccine does NOT prevent transmission, and it doesn't provide much, if any, protection at all, in part because the virus keeps mutating. So then the question becomes: What does it matter if someone IS or is NOT vaccinated then?

The virus has a 99,8% survival rate anyway and since we're 18 months into this, pardon my French, cluster ****, chances are we've all had it already with mild to no symptoms at all.

With all the crazy measures taken someone could be forgiven for thinking it was the Spanish Flu.

Added.
How would they know if someone was vaccinated or not in the first place?

Try this number genius,,,4,722,924 dead so far.