A day or two in Gib ... Where to stay, what to do?

[CarinaPDX]

When walking into town from Marina Bay you will go through the main square. There is a tourist office there that is very helpful. Occasionally there are trips into the WWII cave system so go to the tourist office first (upon arrival) and see if you can get on one. The old cave system (Great Seige Tunnels) is also worth seeing for an appreciation of the firing positions over Spain and the view - best done as a part of the walk down the rock.

Definitely take the cable car up and then walk down if you are in good condition. Do not feed the apes. Be very careful if they get close as they will steal glasses, watches, backpacks, purses - anything they can. It is very funny to see an ape in a tree on the steep slope playing with someone else's Rolex - less so if it is your own.

At the top of the rock on the south end is a large 9.2" naval turret that could reach Africa - worth it for the view. Also on the rock is a natural cave. Near the sea there is a huge muzzle-loading cannon known as the 100-ton gun. Of course just walking around you will see the remnants of the incredible fortifications everywhere. If you are walking down by the port and keep a sharp lookout you will see a tunnel through the rock at road level through which you can view the traffic on the far side of the rock.

Also of note is the museum. And the main street is great for shopping. The Safeway near Marina Bay is very large, and has many of the excellent British canned goods. IIRC the Marks and Spencer store had some of their gourmet canned entrees but that may no longer be the case.

And the pub mentioned earlier is a fine place to spend too much time... Beyond that walk or taxi across the border and find some great tapas.

Greg

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Only to a singlehander.

A very desperate singlehander. The monkeys are royal pains. Just go to Nelsons and relax. For the truly desperate single hander, there is solace to be found on the Rock of the human kind, but better to go to Naples for complete relief.

[robert sailor]

There is a wonderful very British fish and chip joint after entering the town center, first place I'd go.

[ZoiblesMcSquack]

Definitely stay in Marina Bay, more accessible and easier to get out of. Spent 15 weeks there this year doing a Yachtmaster course.

Restaurants are all pretty similar in Marina Bay, pub fare with minor variations between them. I liked Bruno's and Charlie's the best I suppose. There's a wagamama which is different, and which liked. Casino restaurant is not good, though cheap. I would walk up rock and do tunnel tour. If possible rent a car and drive up to Ronda, it is a beautiful city and a good day trip.

Enjoy!

[Prairie Chicken]

Marina Bay sounds like the place to tie up. Thanks to all for the other good tips too! Pubs are good, so are fish n' chips! Good info Greg, the cave system sounds very interesting.

I'll do my homework into the history before going; that should make it more real before I actually see it. Thanks all. Any more suggestions are welcome.

Thanks Zoibles, logged & noted, & welcome to the crew!

[Prairie Chicken]

Is Gib always windy???

We tied up at Queensway Marina for three nights, one more than planned due strong E'erlys & 2 m seas forecast from the E on our planned day of departure back E toward Mallorca. It was a good call to stay as even walking around the Old Town I almost got blown off my feet. Queensway had no problem accommodating our 20 m boat, plus a Jongert beside us at least 3 m longer than we were.

We did eat at Nelson's pub. Twice! I declare the burger excellent! Both times we were there though it was sort of off times & there weren't many around--no yachtie-looking Auzzies that I noticed. It obviously wasn't the time for free tapas either. I did like the feel of the place though. We had take-away from the small Indian restaurant right by the showers at Queensland. It was good too.

As one of our crew doesn't walk well we limited our trip to the top of the rock & back by cable car. That was a worthwhile exercise (once) for the view & to watch the levant cloud action. The monkeys (Barbary apes) were most entertaining taking advantage of the foolish people who fed them.

We wandered Old Town and found a delightful old library in the back streets. There were volumes and newspapers, some dating into the 1700's. Very worth finding & checking out! The old cemetery just inside the wall entrance near Queensway was also interesting to see & photograph. The much-promoted duty-free shopping wasn't much. I bought a pair of Sketchers for about the same price as at home, and a motorcycle helmet was only about 5 Euro less than Palma. The shops will negotiate though. I can see the duty-free parts for the boats, and fuel, would be a real bonus though.

Morrison's supermarket is a gem! What a wonderful store for provisioning!

Of course I knew Gib was English speaking, but I've been in Spain so long it came as a bit of a shock to be able to ask a question & get an understandable answer.

Unlike most of our stops along the Spanish mainland, there were no mosquitos in Gib. This may only be because they are not certified for flight in those winds though.

If those winds blow all the time it would be a dirty place to keep a boat!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ccannan]

Yes, Gib can be quite windy! I know you were crewing but, what makes the owner's believe going to Gib will reset their VAT clock? Everything I've read indicates it doesn't. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge about this? Meaning they have had EU officials from an EU country ask about the vessel's VAT status, and length of time in the EU, and being satisfied with the boat being in Gib, as outside of the EU?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Yes, Gib can be quite windy! I know you were crewing but, what makes the owner's believe going to Gib will reset their VAT clock? Everything I've read indicates it doesn't. Does anyone have firsthand knowledge about this? Meaning they have had EU officials from an EU country ask about the vessel's VAT status, and length of time in the EU, and being satisfied with the boat being in Gib, as outside of the EU?

Spending a day or three in Gibraltar resets a vat clock just fine for Spain and Italy. That's how we recently reset ours per recommendation by Spanish and Italian customs officials. And yes, our documents indicating the boat had been in Gibraltar satisfied the Italian and Spanish officials upon our return to those countries when the boat was placed in a customs bond.

Tunisia, Montenegro, Albania and Turkey also work well along with Guernsey. In a couple of years, the UK looks to be another choice.

[jstevens]

"And yes, our documents indicating the boat had been in Gibraltar satisfied the Italian and Spanish officials "

I think "satisfied" is the key word. My understanding is that Gib is part of the EU with just some special tax exemptions, but not for VAT. The key is you get a very official looking Practique document from the Gib Harbor office, and the only thing officials like more than a fancy stamp is a fancy document. So they gladly accept the Gib document, even if it does nothing for the VAT status.

John

[boatman61]

I would not bank on Gibraltar being acceptable for ALL Schengen countries.. some are more laid back than others as an American couple found out when using the Channel Islands near France who hold the same status as Gibraltar.. EU but not Schengen.

The Basic's.
Non-EU vessels which are intended for re-export may be temporarily brought into and used for private purposes in the EU, or more strictly in the "Customs territory of the Community", (which includes our territorial waters), without Customs duties or Value Added Tax (VAT) needing to be paid. But this can only be done by persons who are*not EU residents - in official terms - by people who are "established outside that territory". This facility is thus*NOT available to EU residents whatever their nationality.
The boats concerned have to be placed under the "temporary importation procedure" (TI) with Customs and the period of use in the EU is limited in time. When the time is up the boat has to leave, in official jargon this period is called "the period of discharge". The re-exportation of the goods from the Customs territory of the Community is the usual way of ending or "discharging" a temporary importation procedure. If the boat does not leave before the end of that time, then Customs duty and VAT become due.
A boat is temporarily imported into the EU and not into one of the constituent Member States. Thus it can move from one Member State to another with no further Customs formalities during the 18 month period allowed.
It needs to be emphasized that the 18 month TI period*only applies to privately owned, non-EU yachts and sailed by non-EU owners or skippers. If an EU owner or skipper sails a non-EU registered boat, then there is now, in practice, no period of TI

Can you have another period of Temporary Importation? How long must you wait?
Yes, you are not limited to a single period of temporary import. You can sail the yacht out of the EU and when you came back again for another holiday a new period of temporary importation can begin. The Customs rules do not provide for a "minimum period" during which the goods must remain outside of the Customs territory of the EU. It is wise to *obtain*documentary*evidence that time*has been spent outside the EU. Leaving for a very short time and returning to the same country*may be regarded as an abuse of this regulation and is best avoided.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by jstevens

"And yes, our documents indicating the boat had been in Gibraltar satisfied the Italian and Spanish officials "

I think "satisfied" is the key word. My understanding is that Gib is part of the EU with just some special tax exemptions, but not for VAT. The key is you get a very official looking Practique document from the Gib Harbor office, and the only thing officials like more than a fancy stamp is a fancy document. So they gladly accept the Gib document, even if it does nothing for the VAT status.

John

None of what you've written is factually correct. It was the Spanish and Italian customs officials who recommended going to Gibraltar to satisfy the VAT requirement. That's why we went there.

Ken

[Prairie Chicken]

Our info corresponds with Boatie's. The temp import is commonly used here in the Balearics. The Russian boat across from us has been to Gib 3 times & just got back from Morocco. Some TP52's also do the trip quite regularly to invoke the temp import (TI).

In our case it was a non-EU boat registered to a non-EU company, owned by Canadians. For this trip we had an EU captain with a letter of authority and 3 Canadian crew.

For this trip the skipper consulted with the Network Group, a very well respected consulting group here in Palma. They advised him regarding the exit and temp import, and upon our return with the document from Gib showing we had cleared in, & out, cleared the vessel into Palma. Like Boatie, I'm not sure every EU country would accept Gib, but Spain does & this boat will have a doc indicating it cleared into Spain last week.

Our local Islander magazine had an article last month written by the Network Group, indicating two recent changes. First, as of this past spring, Voluntary Customs Bonding has been eliminated. That process allowed an owner to go to Customs & seal the boat as being unused, and later unseal it to use it, and the period the boat was sealed did not count toward the 18 month TI period. (Some restrictions applied). Secondly, "whereas previously crossing the frontier of the customs territory into EU was sufficient for a vessel to be considered to be under TI, this is no longer the case. A vessel wishing to be placed under TI/Admission must report to a customs port & declare it's arrival & departure. This also applies to "ordinary" import/export of vessels."


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ccannan]

Boatman61-Thanks for the recap, I have done my homework and I believe Gib, in a pinch wouldn't satisfy most EU officials. That said I can understand why Spanish authorities accept Gib as being outside the EU as it is literally a thorn in their side. I have no idea why the Italians would accept Gib as being outside the EU, just ignorance, maybe.

For me, I go to Tangier, Morocco, it is just a few more miles and it definitely meets the requirements of being outside of EU waters.

Praire Chicken-Where and how did you (owner/you) clear into Palma? With La Policia Nacional de Fronteras at the cruise ship terminal? I ask, because I did the same thing earlier this summer, and had a very difficult time re-clearing into Spain from Gib into Palma. The Policia Nacional de Fronteras at the cruise ship terminal basically told me they couldn't clear me in and that I should check in when I got to Barcelona. In Barcelona they wanted me to use an agent!

Praire Chicken-Please provide links to the article about the changes. Thanks.

Again, does anyone on CF have firsthand knowledge about using Gib as a VAT clock reset? Meaning they have had EU officials from an EU country ask about the vessel's VAT status, and length of time in the EU, and being satisfied with the boat being in Gib, as outside of the EU?

[Prairie Chicken]

Ccanan, Network Group were taking our skipper to clear in to Palma last week. Where & details I don't know but will ask for further when I have lunch with him tomorrow.

My research has concluded there are no hard and fast rules we can grasp on to. There is the local accepted practice which everyone uses & seems to meet all inspections, but no guarantees it will stand up to an Aduanas officer with a bee in his bonnet. This is so typical of the region!

As far as a link, I have the mag beside me, The Islander, Sep 2016 edition. I'm having trouble finding you a link but google "The Islander Magazine S.L., or perhaps searching Network Group + Islander + September will work. I'm on a slow connection. Sorry.




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Prairie Chicken]

[QUOTE

Again, does anyone on CF have firsthand knowledge about using Gib as a VAT clock reset? Meaning they have had EU officials from an EU country ask about the vessel's VAT status, and length of time in the EU, and being satisfied with the boat being in Gib, as outside of the EU?[/QUOTE]

I think you are being optimistic in thinking officials would have the same interpretations consistently. That is the way it is supposed to work but I know from my own experience it doesn't happen that way. I wish it was so!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum