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ougyday · 02-11-2013, 08:16

My dream is to charter a sailboat in Greece, Italy, Hawaii, Australia and other exotic places. I just completed my 101 certification and will begin 103 & 105 soon. What is the prerequisites to be able to rental and skipper a boat in these places? And also, what is the suggested experience level to do so?

Thanks.

goboatingnow · 02-11-2013, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ougyday

My dream is to charter a sailboat in Greece, Italy, Hawaii, Australia and other exotic places. I just completed my 101 certification and will begin 103 & 105 soon. What is the prerequisites to be able to rental and skipper a boat in these places? And also, what is the suggested experience level to do so?

Thanks.

For Greece , Italy , the asa stuff is fine. , experience well , if you can walk , charter companies are ok with that

Dave

**Jim Cate** · 02-11-2013, 10:05

FWIW, I can only speak of the Whitsunday area in Oz... but a few years ago I asked some newbie (and I mean REALLY newbie... never sailed before) folks who had chartered a 45 foot sloop what qualifications they were required to meet. The answer: a high limit on their credit card! Seriously!

IN their defense, they had not hoisted a sail and didn't intend to, and they were having a great time motoring from one anchorage to the next.

I think that requirements will vary between locations, and with how many unchartered boats are in inventory at the time.

I've never personally chartered, so can't offer experience based advice.

Cheers,

Jim

jackdale · 02-11-2013, 10:16

That may depend on where you are chartering. Experience matters more than certificates.

In the Pacific Northwest many charter companies want you to have experience in tidal waters. Some folks with advanced certificates have been asked to take a skipper along for a couple of days to acquaint them with the tides and currents.

I have chartered in Turkey, the Pacific Northwest, Bahamas, BVIs, Leewards, and the Sea of Cortez.

Dtm67 · 02-11-2013, 14:14

Greece and Croatia required ICC's when I chartered there. An ICC is an "International Certificate of Competence". If you have an ASA 104 certificate, you can pay the ASA to issue one to you. Just make sure to budget enough time to get it in the mail before your trip. I have the feeling the Europeans are more used to seeing those than the ASA certificates. In Athens, the charter company showed both my wife's and mine to the port captain before they would let us leave (Greece requires bareboats to have two certificated skippers onboard). Croatia required a VHF license in addition to the ICC though I have chartered there twice and haven't been asked to show it. We did have a visit from the Croatian Coast Guard while on the ball in Luka Telascica (a gorgeous well protected bay the Venetian navy used to use and is now a National Park). He didn't board but he did ask to see the boat papers, crew list, passports and ICCs. Though that last one may have been lost in translation - i basically handed over everything I had

Chartering in the Med is an amazing experience that makes the extra paperwork worth it. The wind is a little fickle....either not enough or too much but the scenery and history is hard to beat. That and it's interesting to be the only americans around for miles- especially in Croatia. The sailing camaraderie between all of tightly spaced med moored boats are some of my best memories. Everyone seems to speak english, and we made friends with germans, austrians, poles, english, french you name it. You get a lot of that camaraderie in the Caribbean for sure, but it just seemed different to me. Maybe it's because as an American, I was in the distinct minority!

goboatingnow · 02-11-2013, 16:04

This is full of inaccuracies

Croatia requires a single skipper to be certified and accepts a wide variety of certifications including ASA.

Greece requires that charter skippers demonstrate competency , but unlike Croatia does not specifically specify any particular cert. hence the interpretation of competency is left to the port authorities. The charter company can actually issue its own certificate but sometimes the port authorities assume all certification is an ICC.

There is confusion over the " 2nd skipper" there are competing claims as to the interpretation of the requirement that at least another crew is competent. To my understanding there is no legal requirement and I've never come across it. However as i stated Greek law merely ask for competency it does not specify certification unlike Croatia.

In effect the charter company should deal with this before giving you the charter , either issuing certs as required or ensuring your good to go.

Note the port police rarely check this and even rarely do anything if you don't have stuff ( for a charter ) its the charter companies responsibility

Dave

Dtm67 · 02-11-2013, 16:24

As you say, there are conflicting interpretations of the requirements. What I shared was my experience of booking several charters in the Med, and as usual peoples experience will vary. It does appear to me that the ICC is the most widely accepted and I didn't feel like chancing it given the relatively low cost of getting one from the ASA.

That all being said....if I could do it over again, I probably would have just contacted the base manager direct to make sure I had what I needed, as it seems that charter booking agents don't necessarily represent the requirements very well. The last thing I wanted was to book a multi thousand dollar trip, fly there from the states and have complications checking the boat out.....

goboatingnow · 02-11-2013, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtm67

As you say, there are conflicting interpretations of the requirements. What I shared was my experience of booking several charters in the Med, and as usual peoples experience will vary. It does appear to me that the ICC is the most widely accepted and I didn't feel like chancing it given the relatively low cost of getting one from the ASA.

That all being said....if I could do it over again, I probably would have just contacted the base manager direct to make sure I had what I needed, as it seems that charter booking agents don't necessarily represent the requirements very well. The last thing I wanted was to book a multi thousand dollar trip, fly there from the states and have complications checking the boat out.....

Just to be clear outside Croatia , which has clear specific requirements and Greece which has a vague requirement for both skippers competency and a crew person competency.

Elsewhere no specific legal requirement exists to have specific competency , but that doesn't stop some officials from looking for it

In Greece the onus is not on you it's on the charter company. They get the port police to authorise the charter and there's a stamp in a document to that effect. It's actually the charter companies responsibility. If they give you the boat with the stamp , you're acceptable.

The confusion arises in other ports where from time to time port authorities seem to think only the ICC is acceptable. Whatever it is its the charter companies problem actually not yours

Dave

cal40john · 02-11-2013, 16:37

What's your definition of bareboat charter? Sunsail has flotilla charters where you are on a boat with no company staff. You are required to sail with a group of boats, one of which has company staff onboard. When I chartered out of Vounaki a flotilla charter group was also preparing to leave. The charterers were being taught how to raise the mainsail as I left.

goboatingnow · 02-11-2013, 20:04

Technically no difference

Dave

Dtm67 · 02-11-2013, 20:22

Dave....makes sense. I wish the booking agent back then would have put it in such good black and white!

ougyday · 02-11-2013, 20:30

Wow. This is very helpful. Thanks! My def of bareboat charter is that several friends and I spend a week cruising. A flotilla may be a first step for me...but I planning on getting all the experience and certs I need to go it alone one day.

Bennie Bear · 08-11-2013, 04:22

Anyone intending to rely on an American-issued certificate claiming to be an ICC should be wary. The issuing of ICCs is governed by Resolution 40 of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Inland Transport Committee (see http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2013/sc3wp3/ECE-TRANS-SC3-147-rev3e.pdf). As the US Government is not a signatory to Resolution 40, a certificate claiming to be an ICC issued in the USA has no formal status under Resolution 40 and may not be acceptable to the European authorities.

alex_sauvage · 08-11-2013, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennie Bear

Anyone intending to rely on an American-issued certificate claiming to be an ICC should be wary. The issuing of ICCs is governed by Resolution 40 of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe Inland Transport Committee (see http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2013/sc3wp3/ECE-TRANS-SC3-147-rev3e.pdf). As the US Government is not a signatory to Resolution 40, a certificate claiming to be an ICC issued in the USA has no formal status under Resolution 40 and may not be acceptable to the European authorities.

I don't think ASA calls their "paperwork" ICC. I think it is "International Proficiency Certificate", close enough, but not the same. It looks more "official" than ASA logbook and did work fine for me in Greece. But charter company did requested the original of it and actually took it to the port authorities. From what I recall it might be difficult to obtain actual ICC from the European country if you are not a resident of it (at least for UK). There are Canadian sailing schools which will issue ICC, but it is quite expensive ~450$. And I have no idea if Canada did signed that Resolution 40. So going through ASA (if you already have your ASA 104) might be the easiest way.