Boat Seized in Spain by Police

[ausieman]

I trust the brain fade and home brew aren't linked Mark.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by ausieman

I trust the brain fade and home brew aren't linked Mark.

I'll sue Coopers!

[Skipper David]

As many of you cruising people do research before you undertake your traveling.It appears this guy didnt.and as spain is the biggest eu destination for people leaving eu countries they do get bad press.
The attitude of if it wasnt for us coming to there country,isnt rearly a good one.
I have lived in spain for 8 yars,and see this all the time,with people living ashore as well.
It appears that,the information about how long they can stay in spain,came through other cruising yachts when they arrived and not before coming.and the fact that the people giving the information themselves are breaking the law.
If i wanted to bring a uk registered car here it is the same i have to reregister it and pay import tax.
If you stay longer than 6 months you have to register as a resident.Yhis is 2 hours work and a few euros.

skipper david

[Dragos]

Probably it is already too late, but for the sake of future ones in the same trouble, this is what I would do:

Your police officer, even if someday becomes sympathetic, he still needs some papers to close the case legally.
First, change your declaration about "one year stay in Spain" and make it "yes, one year, but not continuously"
Second, take the train and ferry to Marocco, go to the first marina and bribe the port captain to issue some paper to prove that your boat was moored in his marina for a certain period(s) of time, within the last year.
Now you can offer to the Spanish police a way to close the case. The rest is simple: to motivate them to act in your favour...

[djeeke]

Originally Posted by GoahAbaddi

But because of my statement to the policeman about having been here almost a year we are now being considered as resident to other purposes like being subject to all the regulations for Spaniards, which seem to be so complex that no one here understands them completely, not lawyers nor officials (and I swear this is not my ranting again, but the lawyers word which he says will be part of his legal strategy). And since we are now subject to Spanish regulations, just like any other Spaniard, we can be accused of having violated several of them.

Don't forget !
Since it looks like you really have to be considered as Spaniards (by that I mean Spanish residents, not Nationals), this should also relieve you from your Belgian residency (not nationality), meaning you are not supposed to pay Belgian taxes on your income ! (this should save you a few Euros) ...

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Skipper David

As many of you cruising people do research before you undertake your traveling.It appears this guy didnt.
skipper david

I just get annoyed when people who have never been a member of our forum get into trouble and then ask the world in Post #1

and then reply in a group email to all the forums they have multi posted!


Sux.

[H Romberg]

Sounds like a good reason to keep the boat moving. The problem is that the EU is getting pretty big. It's not easy to get back out fast enough to avoid VAT

How bad is the percentage at the EU level anyway? Maryland has a brutal "excize tax" that works close to the same way.

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by H Romberg

How bad is the percentage at the EU level anyway? Maryland has a brutal "excize tax" that works close to the same way.

I am not sure I would call 5% brutal, and I just paid it on the new boat.

[Columbia22]

This story Reminds me of a Basque Guy i Worked with He was Born in Spain But left when he was just a small child He went Back to visit relatives one year and Spain arrested him for Not fulfilling his compulsory Military service in Spain Mind you HE is American Citizen doesnt Speak Spanish and there gonna conscript him into the Military It was quiet a mess but they finnally got it straightened out Seems like maybe they had to get the US embassy involved. Guess ill just have to take Spain off my Places to visit someday LIST

[DeepFrz]

Not me. I'd love to visit Spain. What an amazing history it has.

[Christian Van H]

Been to Madrid and Toledo...they were wonderful, with some of the best looking people I've ever seen...and the FOOD!!!! OH MY GOD!

[Waterborn]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I just get annoyed when people who have never been a member of our forum get into trouble and then ask the world in Post #1

and then reply in a group email to all the forums they have multi posted!


Sux.

The key is "our" forum not "your" forum. Given the situation they are in do you think it would be better for these people to post a bunch of bs tidbits about wiring and plumbing before they post a question about their predicament just to make you happy?
These people are in serious financial and emotional trouble and by the look of most of the replies the majority of the sailing community is sincerely interested in helping them. I for one would use all possible avenues for assistance if I were in their shoes, even if it meant offending a veteren forum user. Since I do not have any personal experience to contribute on this subject I will leave it at that, except to say we are all (most of us) are wishing them all the best.

[sabray]

I think it is notable that they have sailed many miles and now years without need to holler for help. It would seem that they found themselves in a situation where they needed assistance and have asked. I don't see a problem. hopefully they have found answers to their problem.

Many years ago I docked in a small marina with a vast but wonderful view to the N.E.. I was a new comer and missed the potential exposure of the dock. A gail blew in and although I had doubled the lines they began chafing. My home damn near broke free. I kid you not broadside waves were breaking over my boat. When I arrived people I had never known or talked with were helping save my boat. Many cold hours later and much wasted cordage we relaxed and enjoyed the success. That is a community.
I have returned the favor and been favored by it many times. It is not yours or mine it is an opportunity to enjoy share and help.

[Adaero]

I have been looking at this situation closely as we have our boat in Spanish teritory.
So far the only cases I can find have been in areas controlled by the Valencia council. They are also the council that has had a warning from the EU about its illegal land grabs from private residents. I'm not sure exactly but I believe they control the coast from Torevieja (sp) to Valencia itself which is a lot of popular marinas.
If the Spanish government rolled this out to all of its teritories then they would loose a huge amount of income from other EU countries as all of the boat will leave. Just look at Palma marina in Majorca. There are row upon row of Sunseekers and other huge motor yachts, can you see these guys paying 12%, not on your life!
They will come to their senses in a year or two when all of the boats have gone but I will keep watching closely.

[keelbolts]

For years I was always aware of politics and government. I have a Polisci degree. I taught HS Govt.. Then one day I turned my back on it. I was studying the history of government in general and I had a moment of crystal clarity when I saw that the line between the best government and other forms of organized crime was too thin to see.

From the biggest club in the cave thru the Divine Right of royalty to the voice of the majority, government has ALWAYS been about stealing from the producers. Thru most of history, order has been an unintended benefit of government - not the aim. We all have to deal with it, but, I relate to my government as a Parisian would have related to his govt late in WWII.

The real genius of government is that it has so many people believing that getting your stuff taken by a government is different from getting you stuff taken by any other thief.

It sounds like Drago has the best plan to free the boat from the Spanish "govt officials." I guess the moral of the story is to know what the game is, wherever you go, so you can play it. You must know what the rules are if you are to stay below the radar.