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Jolly Roger · 16-04-2009, 07:49

Reading Keelbolts post makes me feel scared as well, and it ain’t getting easier as economies tighten up.
Dragos option would be something to have under their belt, so long as they don’t pick the only honest marina manager in Tangier and get shackled to the dungeon for bribery.
I’ve sailed the coast of Spain a lot, and first to mention they might consider a ‘motivation’ of the officials, (and consider is the operative word, because we aren’t there and don’t know all the facts, or how much money the Christoffs have). I’ve met all types, and these port officials don’t get much pay, and with some the only compensation is the power they hold over others, especially “rich boat owners”.
First you have to get down to their level, so they don’t feel you are a ‘rich foreigner,’ enjoying their land for free, when they are stuck in their crappy job. Then, you need to give them a reason to feel satisfied they have done their job, and/or made a few bob themselves, and they may miraculously drop the issue, (especially if it’s a bit tricky), and become your instant friend.
Depending on how far it has progressed, I would cautiously approach my lawyer, and ask if any other “personal compensation,’ might solve the problem. He will know if the officials are crooked, or even a little bit bent. By the way, it’s not a good idea to try to do it yourself even if your speak fluent Spanish, because you are still a forastero.
It will be instructional and interesting to hear the outcome from the Christoffs, one way or the other.

**s/v Beth** · 16-04-2009, 14:05

I have been lurking on this thread with great interest. I plan on touring Europe in my boat, and I have a quick question.
Does each country in the EU have their own time you can spend in the country, or is the 183 days a EU requirement, and every 6 months you must go off EU soil? For example, can I spend 4 months in England then 4 months in Spain, or do I have to go to Morocco?

Caribsailors · 16-04-2009, 19:09

It's not just the EU, I was robbed by the Turks & Caicos Gov for import duty even after I asked for an exemption as stated in British law.

The gov is there is now dissolved and back under British rule. Hey maybe I can get a refund!

So be aware of where you cruise.

I know I am now.

Cheers

**GordMay** · 17-04-2009, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caribsailors

... I was robbed by the Turks & Caicos Gov for import duty even after I asked for an exemption as stated in British law.
The gov is there is now dissolved and back under British rule...

In July 2008 a UK government Commission of Inquiry was set up to "look into whether there had been corruption involving past or present elected members of the islands’ House of Assembly, the 21-member parliament,”

Turks & Caicos Islands Commission of Inquiry
The Turks and Caicos Islands Commission of Inquiry Commissioner Sir Robin Auld

And:
Turks & Caicos: Day 1, 2, 3 & 4 - Transcripts of Commission of Inquiry Hearing - Premier Micheal Misick

Delivering a press statement on March 16, the Governor said that Sir Robin noted that the written information obtained in the first six months of the Inquiry, when coupled with the evidence in the public hearings in TCI earlier this year, have provided information in abundance pointing to a high probability of systemic corruption or other serious dishonesty.

He said that in light of the accumulation of evidence in relation to TCI in the last year or so, and fortified by the Commissioner’s interim report, the UK Government has formed the view that parts of the Constitution will need to be suspended and has decided to take steps to enable it to do so.
Goto:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/n...atement-160309

Turks and Caicos Islands Constitution (Interim Amendment) Order 2009:
The Turks and Caicos Islands Constitution (Interim Amendment) Order 2009 No. 701

**Hud3** · 17-04-2009, 11:14

It seems that the Christoffs weren't the only foreign cruisers targeted by Spanish customs authorities. There appears to be a rather short-sighted effort underway to raise local revenues from foreign yacht owners.

An excerpt from an article in the British magazine Sailing World...

Quote:

They make a great orange, hold a pretty good Americas Cup, produce Popes and Kings and the weather is superb, but - don't leave your boat in Valencia! The port city on Spain's Mediterranean coast is turning on its foreign boat owners and suddenly confiscating their boats, demanding a massive tax that is enforced nowhere else in the EU.

At the Marina International in Torrevieja, one of several ports on the Mediterranean coast to be targeted in recent months, a dozen Britons have had their vessels impounded and countless others have fled to avoid the risk of losing their boats...

...The regional government of Valencia is clamping down on foreigners who reside in marinas across its southeastern coastline and are demanding payment of up to 12 per cent of the value of the boat under a law that is not enforced across the rest of Spain or the European Union.

bstreep · 17-04-2009, 11:33

Nothing like killing the goose that laid the golden egg...

bitman · 17-04-2009, 12:11

all the eu member states Member States

ad_astra · 17-04-2009, 12:43

Haven't seen those posted elsewhere in the thread yet, but I stumbled on this article on noonsite that indicates this situation has been going on since at least January:

Noonsite: ISDMT Tax Crackdown for Liveaboards Begins in 2009

There is an additional article with some more links:

Noonsite: Update on Spanish Taxes applied to Foreign Registered Boats

Ram · 18-04-2009, 03:05

How long before other countrys start doing this to raise money -this was brought on by the recission and less taxs being collected- I suppose they figure anyone with a yacht has a few extra bucks they can squeeze- Im going to be extra careful this year not to step over the line

**GordMay** · 18-04-2009, 03:10

See also:

Spanish Taxes and Boat Registration

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-on-boats.html

The Spanish boat tax system explained.

Boating through Europe, the French Waterways, the ISDMT boat import tax

Sail World - Powerboat-world: Sail and sailing, cruising, boating news

In addition to the Noonsite articles, ad astra cited

Noonsite: ISDMT Tax Crackdown for Liveaboards Begins in 2009

Noonsite: Update on Spanish Taxes applied to Foreign Registered Boats

tankardtrev · 06-05-2009, 06:59

I slipped up the other day too, the Guardia Civil said to me how long are you staying and I said 6 months, they said any longer and we take your boat - and I knew to lie, i had just forgotten.
But telling fibs now may be your best way out of it.
Can you get any receipts or do you have any from a different country within that period, or pictures.
Then you can say you havent permanently been in Spain and neither has your boat.
I dont like dealing with the Guardia Civil, but some are OK but you met a right little pair of jobsworths. Its such a shame you never heard of this before as then you would of known what to say.
I would do a runner, wait till its rough weather, they cant touch you once you leave spain and theres no inter department liason. My friend has been in the canaries for years but every time he sees 1 he just says ive only been here 2 weeks. Registering in Spain is an absolute bitch, England leads the way in this department, you will even have to do a licence test!!
Go for it, do a runner, but maybe they would suspect a run for the border.
An offshore coastal passage may confuse them, i will keep my fingers crossed for you. Trev.

They love their sticky tape!
The marina wont ring straight away you can bet. they sound OK.
P.S What are the winter rates in southern spain for a 6 meter boat?
I was thinking of leaving mine there.

gbendaly · 06-05-2009, 09:24

hello unfortunate mate

unless you are in koweit or the KSA policemen every where are underpaid and generally welcome an extra buck if the opportunity arise, so why don't you try to offer their captain some kind of contribution to their fine work ?? it worked for me on more than one occasion but beware not to do it directly, generally have someone else ,preferably local "suggest" this as a gesture of apology for ignorance on your behalf.. you can never be charged of bribery this way..
walking straight does not always lead to the nearest open door.
good luck

Dave the Canuck · 06-05-2009, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbendaly

hello unfortunate mate

unless you are in koweit or the KSA policemen every where are underpaid and generally welcome an extra buck if the opportunity arise, so why don't you try to offer their captain some kind of contribution to their fine work ?? it worked for me on more than one occasion but beware not to do it directly, generally have someone else ,preferably local "suggest" this as a gesture of apology for ignorance on your behalf.. you can never be charged of bribery this way..
walking straight does not always lead to the nearest open door.
good luck

Be very careful. The practice of "Baksheesh", while commonplace in the Arab world, can be viewed as attempted bribery elsewhere with rather unfortunate consequences.

TaoJones · 06-05-2009, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave the Canuck

Be very careful. The practice of "Baksheesh", while commonplace in the Arab world, can be viewed as attempted bribery elsewhere with rather unfortunate consequences.

True enough, but props to gbendaly for this line:

"Walking straight does not always lead to the nearest open door."

TaoJones