Buying a new yacht in France, but want to buy accessories etc in Australia and send o

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by boatman61

They may not charge VAT as such however it all gets dealt with by a central Fiscal agency..

makes sense!

[Jim Cate]

Lots of differing opinions here (as usual on CF)! For me, the potential bureaucratic hassle and potential for serious flaws developing would offset any small fiscal gains that the plan might offer. I just hate crap like that! But, others seem to thrive on it, so definitely a case of YMMV.

This sort of issue is just one of the reasons that I have never seriously considered buying a new boat!

For the OP, I wish you the joy of your soon to be new boat, no matter how you choose to equip it.

Jim

[patprice]

Consider Australian Shipping registration before launching. You will need this anyway or some kind of registration. Then as a foreign registered ship in EU waters owned by non EU person(s) the ship can stay 18 months. To get 18 months more just sail to a non EU country overnight.

But you still have a Shengen problem. Greece can give you a longer stay but a bit complicated to arrange.

Believe the above is correct. Please check elsewhere. We keep an Aussie boat in Greece. Have been there for years now. You are welcome to PM me. But I think I have told you what you already know.

PS The Med is great cruising. Prepare for a long stay!

[Gintonix]

Long time reader of the forum, first post.

FWIW, our experience buying a boat in Europe ex OZ.....

We bought a new yacht in Denmark in 2016. While the Temporary Importation time limit is 18 months (potentially extendable to 24 months) our yacht builder wanted us to exit the EU within a few weeks. There are specific forms the manufacturer has to lodge with the fiscal authorities to qualify as a VAT free export and if this is not done correctly the manufacturer can be held liable for the VAT. I think there are some administrative variations between EU countries in how the VAT is administered.

This was no hardship for us. We sailed up the west coast of Sweden and called into Norway, which is not an EU member. The Norwegian customs people stamped the forms we needed. After a few days in Norway, we went back to Sweden. Our boat is in the EU now (Greece). No one has ever asked us about VAT in the EU countries we have called into.

When we took delivery of the boat in Denmark, we shippped 2 pallets worth of gear from Melbourne that we had on our previous boat - including a dinghy, 2 stroke outboard (can’t get them in EU) and a BBQ. Made sense for us as we already had it and it was all in good condition.

My experience with chandlers in Europe - nearly everything is equal or better quality, or a better selection, than in OZ, and cheaper. We have had great service and highly recommend SVB in Germany.

Notable exceptions include US made products such as Mantus and Fortress - cheaper in OZ - and BBQ’s. It seems rare to see a BBQ fitted to a boat in Europe - it’s not part of the culture there, perhaps because meat is expensive.

Best of luck with your new boat. Our experience has been superb.

[Caroline Joan]

Personally I would buy in Europe, everything will be VAT & duty paid. Great deals out of UK also. I purchased a sailrite sewing machine in on line from manufacturer and had it shipped to Greece thinking I would have 24% VAT to pay when i got it. If only it was just 24% on purchase price. By the time I had Paid VAT, Duty and other fees I ended up paying more than the machine had cost.
Now I buy most things ex UK and the freight it to boat. Smaller items I buy in Turkey when there.
Just purchased a offshore liferaft in Greece on-line. Much cheaper than any other option I could find. Certainly much better than buying from here in NZ and shipping back!

[David B]

Originally Posted by djbjb

We are buying and picking up a new yacht in France, to sail back to Australia over a few years. But because of various reasons (Schengen visa time limit, language, knowledge of who suppliers and manufacturers are, etc) thought we would get made or just buy here in Australia things like water maker, solar panels, etc, as well as some household goods. We have access to good freight rates and Australian gst exemption for exports for the new things.

These things will become part of the boat and its inventory. We know the boat itself will be VAT free as long as it leaves the European tax zone within the proscribed time 18 months. But what about things we bring in from Australia? VAT and duty paid on entry? Can we get a refund? Is there a form we need to have or some sort of documentation to prove that it all goes with the boat?

Is there an agent anyone could recommend that could help? I've been looking through EU websites but although they exist,Temporary Import Permits seem to be quite specific in their application and I'm not sure whether applicable.

Perhaps someone has already done this and could share their experiences.

Debra

Hi Debra,

1. Plan on those "few years" to be more - a lot more. The cultures, the architecture, the people, places .... The diversity over there will keep you going for quite some time, and there are more than one couple out there who ended up never bringing their boat back to Australia.

Anyway, I suggest you get as much equipment as you can, ordered and supplied with he boat. That way, it will all be on the same export manifest as your boat, and assuming you stay within the 18/24mth VAT export window, you will not pay VAT.

You do not say what boat you are buying, so I have no indication at this stage as to the dealership you are working with over here (or perhaps you are working with a European dealership?), but the dealership should be able to organise a pallet of equipment to be ready there for you when you arrive at your boat. The commissioning yard should also be able to arrange this for you. Either (or both) ways, you are being supplied at 'dealership pricing' and overall, should be paying less than buying yourself.
Remember also, that most, if not all product purchased in Australia, has been freighted in through one of the European suppliers. Makes more sense to avoid the freight to Australia, plus the import Duty (good luck on having the GST refunded when you re-export - the paper-trail is significant unless you were the importer). Then of course you have the freight back to Europe, and the attendant issues of having Duty and VAT re-funded (and the paper-trail, and the fees involved).

To give you an idea using our example, we went through the Plastimo catalogue, ordered everything in there we wanted, our dealer quoted prices, we checked and confirmed those prices were at least as good as we could obtain shopping around, and the pallet was there waiting for us when we arrived in France.

We ordered our tender from a local agent over there, and the commissioning yard put it through their books, adding it to our export manifest. There were some things we wanted that we could not find in the catalogue, and we purchased those at various local chandleries over there. Generally, even with their higher VAT over our GST, we were not paying more, and often less than in Australia.

I am happy to have a chat, so if that is of interest, PM me, and you can give me your number, or I ours.

I hope that helps, but good luck, and enjoy the experience - it is a great adventure as long as you cover your bases.

David

[Greg Dee]

I am with Debra - we had a boat in the BVI and looked around at solar panels and regulator from the USA and other Ebay sellers. We then found high quality panels in the ‘antippdes’ freighted then
across and installed them crazy but worked out about 40% cheaper maybe we have got lots of sunshine and better practiced at solar energy or could be our cheap ‘convict’ labor costs cheers Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi

[Mike Banks]

Just get the name of the products and get the manufacturers to guarantee after service in Australia. If the manufacturers will not--insurances are available that probably will.

[Caroline Joan]

Hi David
Just wondered if you have ever tried to claim VAT back on any equipment you purchased while in europe? I was able to claim VAT when I had sails made in Turkey. I see Greece has the potential to get a refund - really just wondering if its easy? I will be leaving Europe and sailing back to NZ so goods will be permanently exported.

[savoir]

A non EU resident gets 3 months to claim a VAT refund on marine hardware purchased in EU. Then you must leave EU. The third of the 3 months is extended a little because it always ends on the last of the month even if you purchased on the 1st of an earlier month.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Caroline Joan

Hi David
Just wondered if you have ever tried to claim VAT back on any equipment you purchased while in europe? I was able to claim VAT when I had sails made in Turkey. I see Greece has the potential to get a refund - really just wondering if its easy? I will be leaving Europe and sailing back to NZ so goods will be permanently exported.

Hi Caroline,
Most purchases we have made in the EU have been minor (tools, and chandlery bits and pieces), so not worth the hassle. Apart from the boat, the major purchase was the Zodiac tender, and Evinrude outboard. Those were attached to the boat manifest and therefore sold as export/VAT free.

Any other major purchases have been:

A staysail - purchased in Australia as an export (and therefore GST free), and delivered from one of the European lofts (Spain from memory - where it was made), to France VAT ex.

Stainless steel arch for solar panels, comm's antennas and davits - manufactured in Tunisia, so much cheaper than Europe, and excellent quality

Full winter cover - as above, made for us while in Tunisia.

NZ - that will be an adventure sailing back there. I wish you great sailing, and a safe time. At least when you get to NZ, there will be no expenses to be surprised with. As I understand it, unlike Australia, they still have fee-free entry, and you can stay there for two years without any Duty of GST issues. Plus there's the welcome pack the Customs people give you on entry. Nice - other countries could learn from the Kiwi's.

[wolfgal]

just to say:

although i cannot answer these questions, i can attempt to help you understand french answers as i speak french and live in paris/normandy.

if you have a question about something written, feel free to pm me.

and, by all means, look me up when you get here. it could be a matter of having me on the phone while you are face to face with someone you cannot understand.

remember to ALWAYS say "Bonjour" first thing, when over here, even single time you see a new face and with every new day. the french are offended if you do not: for them, it feels as though you see yourself as being superior to them. this is crucial.

good luck with it all!

kindly yours

wolfgal

[double u]

before shipping from oz definitely check out the kraut online stores
https://www.awn.de/
https://www.svb.de/
Bootszubehör, Segelbekleidung & Yachtzubehör Online Shop | Compass24
& the frogs:
Uship Accastillage - Equipement bateau de plaisance
BigShip Accastillage - Accessoires pour bateaux
Accastillage Diffusion : équipement pour bateaux, plaisance et nautisme
etc.etc.
...no 2 strokes though...

[DnA9413]

So, typical CF responses. The OP asks for agent recommendations, and all but David chime in and tell her not to do what she says she wants to do. She didn't ask your opinion of what she should do, just how to work with an agent to understand the rules that would apply.

Why not keep "La Grande CF Bouche" shut if you can't help her in the way that she asks?

[Jim Cate]

Why not keep "La Grande CF Bouche" shut if you can't help her in the way that she asks?

Why? Because in many cases here on CF, the poster is not aware of all the possible options or problems associated with his query. If extraneous information is offered, the poster is free to ignore it.

So the real question is why should we pay attention to your efforts to suppress potentially useful info?

Jim