Cruising in Brittany and South West Coast of France in Spring / Summer

[st599]

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Hi St, can you please point me where I can get the free Easytide information from, which link should I click? I wont be in the UK anytime soon that is why I asked Alan to direct me where I can get a good book on the rules of the Road for Europe and UK. I was told to do the UK one as the UK and the rest of Europe goes by the same rules.

I will check those two links you provided to me. Thanks a zillion

EasyTide - on-line tidal predictions from the UKHO

That should give you a map, scroll down to France and find a local port - you use the tidal predictions of height and time with the chart and tidal atlas to find out how much water depth will be present at any given time and the rate of tidal flow.

RYA Online Essential Navigation and Seamanship Course | Others

IRPCS Book:

RYA International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea | Books | Shop | RYA

Beware IRPCS is written by lawyers - insomnia cure!

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Oops yes the number is 5011. You might find it on line, but having a hard copy won't hurt.

Not sure why you got a French version of the website, I am at work, so whilst I can see some of the site it, I can't load it all up unfortunately.

Pete

I finally got the UK site. If I can find the map or the list of 5011 I can download and have it printed at a copy shop, do you know where I can find it seeing I am not a big sailor or even one to begin with does this list tell you what each buoy and Beacon means and what is the purpose etc? Cuz all I know now is they are yellow, red, green and possibly orange but dont know why

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Last chart I bought was about £16 in a chandlers I think. This is my local chandler. Not sure if they would do mail order, but you could ask them.

Charts - Books/Navigation | Marine Super Store

Pete

Pete, is this what I need and is this what chart 5011 looks like? It says 160 pages and its 21.95 from this site. Thanks

Wiley-VCH - Boissier, Paul - Understanding a Nautical Chart

[Hydra]

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

my boat is an 11.2 foot inflatable boat with a 5 hp engine both are brand new and have not been used yet. (...)My questions are this, can I take this little thing in the bay of Brest and where else can I SAFELY take it without being sucked out to see or dead on the water?

Yes, Danielle, you can take your boat safely in bay of Brest. Just check the weather forecast before, and take safety equipment (anchor, bailers, tools and spare plug for the engine, life jackets, flares...) with you.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

I would like to ask if this Rade de Brest chart will show all that I need to know about the bay?

Yes, chart 7400 "Rade de Brest" (scale 1/22500) shows all the details of the bay. You need to complement it with tide tables.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

I would like to know if there aer charts of those L'abers the both of them? Is ther a chart for Port Corjeau?

Chart 7094 "Du phare du Four à l’Île Vierge – port de l’Aber Wrac’h" shows all the details of Aber Wrac'h and Aber Benoît (scale 1/25000). The place that you spell "Port Corjeau" is included in this chart but spellt "Corréjou". However, the chart doesn't go much further toward east. The next time you are in Brest, you should really go in a shop and have a look at this chart.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

We also do not have intentions to go out far on the water say 150 meters for the most from shore?

You should go a bit farther from shore because this is where most of the rocks are. But I recommend that you prepare each sortie on the chart before. Also remember that your speed is restricted to less than 5 knots within 300m from shore.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

My intentions also was to do a little fishing in the bay and dont even know if this is allowed and if so, where are possibilities.

Yes, fishing from a boat is permitted if the boat is registered. All is explained here: http://www.developpement-durable.gou...irs_4p_web.pdf

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

More than likely we wanted to go to the area by the bridge like away from Moulin Blanc towards L'elron river but not sure of that as well. I see red and green buoys sort of lined up from a small map I have and not sure if this is navigable to private small vessels.

Yes, river Elorn is navigable upstream of the bridge. Considering the small draught of your boat, you can easily go to Landerneau with the tide.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

With your expert knowledge of the area, where would you say is the safest and most appropriate area for a newbie to the waters of France to venture into? I am not completely ignorant of the sea or boats or some rules, but I am of this area of the world as they seem to be differnt to that of the USA and Caribbean.

Rade de Brest is fine for beginning. If you want to obtain the French licence for driving motor boats, you will have to take lessons. It would be the perfect area for this.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

The Map of Brest you suggested, can I obtain this in English? Also the Tidal Streams, can you also tell me if this is in English and how can I get it from the UK as I am sure from Germany it wont be in English.

Don't worry about using French or British charts: all modern nautical charts are edited to the same international standard. Then, I suggest that you buy French charts.
But British Admiralty chart 3429 also covers "Rade de Brest" and chart 1432 "Le Four to Ile Vierge" covers the same area as French chart 7094, from Porspoder to Corjeau / Corréjou.

There are French and British shops that sell nautical charts and documents through mail or web order. I bought my charts for Britain and Ireland there: Admiralty Sea Charts | Imray charts in the UK | Sea Chest | Home Page (strictly no other affiliation that "satisfied customer").
For the French charts and atlas of tidal streams, you could try this: http://www.librairie-maritime.com/

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Is it still possible for us to get sucked out of the Rade de Brest if we stay up by the moulin Blanc area towards the bridge? We really just wanted to find a safe calm area for fishing and also anchoring and then perhaps doing a bit of swimming (water temps permitting) and you seem to be just the expert on this subject and area of the world.

The tidal streams are really strong only close to the exit of Rade de Brest. There is no risk at all for you to be sucked out if you keep away from "Pointe des Espagnols".
For swimming, the southern part of Rade de Brest is known for being slightly warmer. But anchor close to shore and swim close to the boat, for there are many boats motoring in summer.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Port Corjeau, is there any time this little sweet port is safe to anchor and fish just before the mouth to the open sea? You know, the area down at the slipramp past the little marine or boat school on the pier to the left? I have always sat on the port and just longed to be in that water with a little boat fishing. Wondering what advice you can give on this little port in particular, without us gettinng sucked out to the English channel.

I have no precise knowledge of "Port Corjeau", I have never been there. I recommend that you obtain some advice from local people.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

What other areas of Brittany can you honestly recommend for me and this little boat?

You might try the coast between Loctudy and Concarneau, and bay of Quiberon (crowded in summer)

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Besides Mount St. Michael and St. Marlo, are there any other areas that have Tidal Bores that I ought to know of, in particula L'Aber Wrac'h, L'aber Benoit, Gulf de Morbihan, Quiberon, Brest, do they have tidal bores?

There are no real tidal bores in Aber Wrac'h and Aber Benoît, because the entrances are deep and sheltered from the swell. In Rade de Brest proper, there is no bore either.
In south Brittany, beware of entrances of rivers (Odet, Aven, Belon) and especially Etel. Many people have drowned in the entrance to Etel river. Ask local people for advice before going to sea. Sometimes, it could also be impossible to come back at the desired time, you would have to wait offshore for the tide to change.
Entrance to Gulf of Morbihan can be very unpleasant for a small boat like yours but I don't think that it would be really dangerous. However, the tidal stream is very strong at some times there.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Those dangerous beacons you warned of, are primarily for ocean going vessels correct? As they are all outside of Rade de Brest.

Yes, Grande Vinotière and Mengam are outside of Rade de Brest.

Danielle, may I suggest that you write shorter posts in the future, one per day, about one subject? This way, it would be easier for me to provide answers

Alain

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Pete, is this what I need and is this what chart 5011 looks like? It says 160 pages and its 21.95 from this site. Thanks

Wiley-VCH - Boissier, Paul - Understanding a Nautical Chart

That looks quite good and probably covers how to use a chart in addition to just explaining what the symbols are which I suspect will be useful to you. If not, then chart 5011 is available on Amazon:

Symbols and Abbreviations Used on Admiralty Charts: No. 5011: Amazon.co.uk: Books

However, as Alain said, you could always use French charts too.

Pete

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Hydra

Yes, Danielle, you can take your boat safely in bay of Brest. Just check the weather forecast before, and take safety equipment (anchor, bailers, tools and spare plug for the engine, life jackets, flares...) with you.

Yes, chart 7400 "Rade de Brest" (scale 1/22500) shows all the details of the bay. You need to complement it with tide tables.

Chart 7094 "Du phare du Four à l’Île Vierge – port de l’Aber Wrac’h" shows all the details of Aber Wrac'h and Aber Benoît (scale 1/25000). The place that you spell "Port Corjeau" is included in this chart but spellt "Corréjou". However, the chart doesn't go much further toward east. The next time you are in Brest, you should really go in a shop and have a look at this chart.

You should go a bit farther from shore because this is where most of the rocks are. But I recommend that you prepare each sortie on the chart before. Also remember that your speed is restricted to less than 5 knots within 300m from shore.

Yes, fishing from a boat is permitted if the boat is registered. All is explained here: http://www.developpement-durable.gou...irs_4p_web.pdf

Yes, river Elorn is navigable upstream of the bridge. Considering the small draught of your boat, you can easily go to Landerneau with the tide.

Rade de Brest is fine for beginning. If you want to obtain the French licence for driving motor boats, you will have to take lessons. It would be the perfect area for this.

Don't worry about using French or British charts: all modern nautical charts are edited to the same international standard. Then, I suggest that you buy French charts.
But British Admiralty chart 3429 also covers "Rade de Brest" and chart 1432 "Le Four to Ile Vierge" covers the same area as French chart 7094, from Porspoder to Corjeau / Corréjou.

There are French and British shops that sell nautical charts and documents through mail or web order. I bought my charts for Britain and Ireland there: Admiralty Sea Charts | Imray charts in the UK | Sea Chest | Home Page (strictly no other affiliation that "satisfied customer").
For the French charts and atlas of tidal streams, you could try this: http://www.librairie-maritime.com/

The tidal streams are really strong only close to the exit of Rade de Brest. There is no risk at all for you to be sucked out if you keep away from "Pointe des Espagnols".
For swimming, the southern part of Rade de Brest is known for being slightly warmer. But anchor close to shore and swim close to the boat, for there are many boats motoring in summer.

I have no precise knowledge of "Port Corjeau", I have never been there. I recommend that you obtain some advice from local people.

You might try the coast between Loctudy and Concarneau, and bay of Quiberon (crowded in summer)

There are no real tidal bores in Aber Wrac'h and Aber Benoît, because the entrances are deep and sheltered from the swell. In Rade de Brest proper, there is no bore either.
In south Brittany, beware of entrances of rivers (Odet, Aven, Belon) and especially Etel. Many people have drowned in the entrance to Etel river. Ask local people for advice before going to sea. Sometimes, it could also be impossible to come back at the desired time, you would have to wait offshore for the tide to change.
Entrance to Gulf of Morbihan can be very unpleasant for a small boat like yours but I don't think that it would be really dangerous. However, the tidal stream is very strong at some times there.

Yes, Grande Vinotière and Mengam are outside of Rade de Brest.

Danielle, may I suggest that you write shorter posts in the future, one per day, about one subject? This way, it would be easier for me to provide answers

Alain

Hi Alan

Ok, sorry for the Novel but you are an Encyclopedia of this area and I am so grateful to find someone finally in Brittany who can give me real life information, you have no idea how grateful and thankful I am to you for all this that you told me. So one question for today, and then I suppose I can take each piece of your email and make a post per day is this what you want? So your quote is below this and my questions are below your quote.

You should go a bit farther from shore because this is where most of the rocks are. But I recommend that you prepare each sortie on the chart before. Also remember that your speed is restricted to less than 5 knots within 300m from shore.

How fast in knots is a 5 hp mercury 4 stroke engine at normal, and full speed? I have no clue and the 300 m from shore, I take it as being all around the bay each side out in the water does not matter which point? And when preparing each Sortie, is this for an escape route incase one does not work out due to something that may prevent it, e.g., current or weather etc? You do know I have to learn this by August as I have never done this in my life before, I just hope I can manage it. And I guess i am to take the chart on the boat as well, so this is all one subject but still several questions in one subject matter. So I am reading that the 300 meters from shore I can only drive less than 5 knots, how do I know I am going 5 knots? And since speed is less than 5 knots then its perfect for troll fishing

Subject for the day Merci Bucoup

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by st599

EasyTide - on-line tidal predictions from the UKHO

That should give you a map, scroll down to France and find a local port - you use the tidal predictions of height and time with the chart and tidal atlas to find out how much water depth will be present at any given time and the rate of tidal flow.

RYA Online Essential Navigation and Seamanship Course | Others

IRPCS Book:

RYA International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea | Books | Shop | RYA

Beware IRPCS is written by lawyers - insomnia cure!

Hi, I almost didnt see this post, you were hiding up there. So with this tidal chart and all these charts am I to add numbers to what I see in the paper chart? Are all numbes on the charts water depths, well besides the obvious buoys etc numbers. I have a document CollReq, is it all the same all over? I will have a look into getting those books ASAP as I do need them. This is so exciting but at the same time a bloody nightmare for me
thanks so much

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

Hi, I almost didnt see this post, you were hiding up there. So with this tidal chart and all these charts am I to add numbers to what I see in the paper chart? Are all numbes on the charts water depths, well besides the obvious buoys etc numbers. I have a document CollReq, is it all the same all over? I will have a look into getting those books ASAP as I do need them. This is so exciting but at the same time a bloody nightmare for me thanks so much

Please be careful, you have made some assumptions in this paragraph which are not true, but I can't teach you navigation over the internet.

Instead, can I direct you to the Royal Yacht Association website:

Pilotage | Navigation | Cruising | RYA

Pete

[Pete7]

Another RYA link,

Navigation & Seamanship Theory | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

Pete

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Please be careful, you have made some assumptions in this paragraph which are not true, but I can't teach you navigation over the internet.

Instead, can I direct you to the Royal Yacht Association website:

Pilotage | Navigation | Cruising | RYA

Pete

Pete, as I said, i am GREEN new to this and even tho I may have been on boats and or driven one for a while here and there in the CAribean unlicensed, I didnt know navigation never knew you had to do this. So I dont know anything at all. I am only assuming all these numbers are water depths because I saw a video on youtube and the guy mentioned that numbers are depths of water, if this is not true. i have to find someone physical to teach me how to read it. Pointless trying for a German instrcutor as they refuse to do it in English

Pete, I just read that whole document, that was a fantastic piece of information. Thanks a zillion.

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Another RYA link,

Navigation & Seamanship Theory | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

Pete

Will have a look at the publications. I can only do this either over the net or in book form as I live in Germany

Thanks for the links. hey, i am not going into moderation anymore

[Hydra]

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

How fast in knots is a 5 hp mercury 4 stroke engine at normal, and full speed?

It depends on many parameters:
- size of boat
- weght of boat (number of people onboard)
- trim of boat: down by the stern isn't good
- pitch of propeller
- cleanliness of hull and (most important) propeller
- sea state and wind speed & direction
Your boat and engine should be able to go much faster than 5 knots.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

I have no clue and the 300 m from shore, I take it as being all around the bay each side out in the water does not matter which point?

Yes, this distance is fixed as a safety measure for swimmers in the water and people on the shore (they could be swamped by the wake of a fast boat). If you are not sure of the distance, go farther or slow down.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

And when preparing each Sortie, is this for an escape route incase one does not work out due to something that may prevent it, e.g., current or weather etc?

There are many reasons:
- in the beginning, you will have so much to think at the same time, that you could easily get lost if you don't have a "picture in your mind" of the lay of the area;
- there are some shallow areas (notably the rivers: Elorn, "rivière de Daoulas", "rivière du Faou"...) where you need to have made the tide computations before going, or else you risk grounding or (worse) striking a rock with the propeller
- the reasons you said: having a "plan B" in case "plan A" isn' feasible for any reason;
- in case of big trouble, you need to be able to call for help, e.g. with your mobile phone or (better) with a hand-held VHF; in this case, you need to be able explaining roughly where you are;

By the way, the organization in charge of Search and Rescue at sea in this area is "CROSS Corsen". To reach them, just dial 1616 on any telephone, 24/7. They have the power to engage life boats and direct any ship or boat in the area to your rescue.

A hand-held VHF would have many advantages (e.g. obtaining weather forecasts, in addition to being able to call for help), but you would have to learn how to use it and request a licence for operating it on the boat (free if the boat is registered in France, but still another document to request).

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

You do know I have to learn this by August as I have never done this in my life before, I just hope I can manage it.

You will do fine. Many people are less well prepared than you.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

And I guess i am to take the chart on the boat as well, so this is all one subject but still several questions in one subject matter.

Yes, it is necessary (and mandatory if your boat is French-registered) to have the chart on the boat. I suggest that you protect the chart in a cover with transparent top. This way, you can permanently compare the chart with what you see around you.

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

So I am reading that the 300 meters from shore I can only drive less than 5 knots, how do I know I am going 5 knots?

It's up to you. You could use a hand-held GPS (probably the easiest solution). You could also remember that 5 knots is approximately 9 km/hour. Then, if you drive at a walking pace, you are under 5 knots.

Note: in some areas, the police uses speed radars and gives speeding tickets, just like on roads but more expensive

Alain

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Another RYA link,

Navigation & Seamanship Theory | Courses | Learning | Courses & Training | RYA

Pete

Hi Jon Mendez wrote me today and sent me some information. I have to call him on Monday to discuss some other material which he cant send via email. thanks for this advice.

[portcorjeau]

Originally Posted by Hydra

It depends on many parameters:
- size of boat
- weght of boat (number of people onboard)
- trim of boat: down by the stern isn't good
- pitch of propeller
- cleanliness of hull and (most important) propeller
- sea state and wind speed & direction
Your boat and engine should be able to go much faster than 5 knots.


Yes, this distance is fixed as a safety measure for swimmers in the water and people on the shore (they could be swamped by the wake of a fast boat). If you are not sure of the distance, go farther or slow down.


There are many reasons:
- in the beginning, you will have so much to think at the same time, that you could easily get lost if you don't have a "picture in your mind" of the lay of the area;
- there are some shallow areas (notably the rivers: Elorn, "rivière de Daoulas", "rivière du Faou"...) where you need to have made the tide computations before going, or else you risk grounding or (worse) striking a rock with the propeller
- the reasons you said: having a "plan B" in case "plan A" isn' feasible for any reason;
- in case of big trouble, you need to be able to call for help, e.g. with your mobile phone or (better) with a hand-held VHF; in this case, you need to be able explaining roughly where you are;

By the way, the organization in charge of Search and Rescue at sea in this area is "CROSS Corsen". To reach them, just dial 1616 on any telephone, 24/7. They have the power to engage life boats and direct any ship or boat in the area to your rescue.

A hand-held VHF would have many advantages (e.g. obtaining weather forecasts, in addition to being able to call for help), but you would have to learn how to use it and request a licence for operating it on the boat (free if the boat is registered in France, but still another document to request).


You will do fine. Many people are less well prepared than you.


Yes, it is necessary (and mandatory if your boat is French-registered) to have the chart on the boat. I suggest that you protect the chart in a cover with transparent top. This way, you can permanently compare the chart with what you see around you.


It's up to you. You could use a hand-held GPS (probably the easiest solution). You could also remember that 5 knots is approximately 9 km/hour. Then, if you drive at a walking pace, you are under 5 knots.

Note: in some areas, the police uses speed radars and gives speeding tickets, just like on roads but more expensive

Alain

Since I reside in Germany I am not allowed to get a VHF unless I take the VHF course here in Germany and this cant be obtained until I get my Sea and Lake and River License which will be next year I hope. I will keep both cell phones charged and accessible should we need help.

My boat will be registered in Germany with a German flag, do I still need to register it in France and fly a French Flag? Its total capacity is 750 kilos, it will be me and my husband so that is like 160 kilos, two little dogs 4 kilos, gear and motor maybe totalling 100 kilos if that much. So we are under the weight capacity. Unless I catch one huge fish haha.

To call Cross Corsen we are using our German phone so do we dial 0033-1616 to reach for help should this be? Should I also have Signal flags, if so which ones and how do I find them. Should I put a flag if we are swimming near the boat? We have an Iphone with updated information like GPS system as well as tidal information on a database, its extra and we paid to add this. It also has a compass, if calling Cross Corsen in the event we need them, can we just give them the compass location as we see it on the compass and describe our boat, and well putting the distress flag will also help I think if we are in trouble that is. I will also have a regular compass on board. However, I will still take maps along and charts and will contain them in a waterproof boat container, I found some online especially for this purpose. I may have the chart laminated at a copy shop to protect it if this is also possible. I intend to do practice training of the charts as soon as I get them. Having a little problem locating Chart No. 1, nobody over seems to understand what I want. I also found Imray charts C35 and C36, are they the same as the Admiralty charts 1432 and 3229?

I think I will just stay out of all rivers in France until I learn all my skills first. It just does not sound friendls to a beginner. Best I keep out of them. I was hoping to at least go under the Bridge but may wait for your instructions of the named places where swimming is allowed until I learn this area well.

I know I went over with questions again but I have so many to ask. Oh more before I forget. You suggest the south side of the bay as a good place to anchor and swim. Is it possible to give me a name of the area so that maybe it is possible we can launch from there as well, or if not, I can at least chart out that area from Moulin Blanc Marina?

Thank you so much again for your efforts and such valuable advice to me. I am so appreciative of this you have no idea.
thanks

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by portcorjeau

My boat will be registered in Germany with a German flag, do I still need to register it in France and fly a French Flag?

The good news is no you don't need to register it in France, however, it is good form to fly the French Courtesy flag when your in French waters. Quite how you are going to do this on an 11 foot inflatable I'm not sure, perhaps a flag pole.

Actually we fly the Brittany courtesy flag when in France, but the good news is they don't shoot you if you forget.

Flags - Chandlery - Page 2 - Piplers of Poole

Pete