How is Greece or Croatia for new bareboat skippers?

[TomCio]

After many seasons of sailing in Croatia (since 1999), that has the warm sea closest to Poland, I bought a boat there that I live on now. I sailed it in May to Greece (first Corfu, now Rodes). One of the main reasons was the cost of living - marinas, restaurants, general supplies. New Marina in Rodes, modern, fully equipped and quite posh, with mooring lines and mooring escort with a dinghy costs €56 / night + actual usage of water and electricity that hasn't exceeded €10 during our 5 days stay there. Mooring in town harbours (anchor from the bow and stern to quay) usually costs up to €20 including water and electricity, sometimes it is just water and electricity with prepaid card valid in several harbours in the area. A plate of sea food costs on average from €8 to €15, pita with meat souvlaki or kebab) costs between €2.50-€4.00. Moreover, Greece is much less regulated, you can anchor in much more bays than in Croatia, where better bays are occupied by mooring buoy mafias, although more and more national park entrance fees are being introduced, so it is probably the last time to visit it cheaply and freely.

[Tudorsailor]

Originally Posted by TomCio

After many seasons of sailing in Croatia (since 1999), that has the warm sea closest to Poland, I bought a boat there that I live on now. I sailed it in May to Greece (first Corfu, now Rodes). One of the main reasons was the cost of living - marinas, restaurants, general supplies. New Marina in Rodes, modern, fully equipped and quite posh, with mooring lines and mooring escort with a dinghy costs €56 / night + actual usage of water and electricity that hasn't exceeded €10 during our 5 days stay there. Mooring in town harbours (anchor from the bow and stern to quay) usually costs up to €20 including water and electricity, sometimes it is just water and electricity with prepaid card valid in several harbours in the area. A plate of sea food costs on average from €8 to €15, pita with meat souvlaki or kebab) costs between €2.50-€4.00. Moreover, Greece is much less regulated, you can anchor in much more bays than in Croatia, where better bays are occupied by mooring buoy mafias, although more and more national park entrance fees are being introduced, so it is probably the last time to visit it cheaply and freely.

You have not mentioned the difference in winds between Croatia and Greece/Aegean. In Croatia the winds are only occasionally strong and there are many places to shelter. The Aegean has strong NW winds for many days of the summer and finding shelter can be a challenge. This season we sailed Lefkas to Rhodes (where the yacht is currently) and will return to Lefkas. Next year back to Croatia!
TS

[goboatingnow]

I’m based in Lefkada and have been sailing in Croatia before. In my experience while Greek sailing costs are rising ( with more town quays charging more ) costs remain well below Croatia.

But overall having chartered all over the place , you can’t beat the Med ,sailing , culture , antiquity , and of course the food.

[TomCio]

Originally Posted by Tudorsailor

You have not mentioned the difference in winds between Croatia and Greece/Aegean. In Croatia the winds are only occasionally strong and there are many places to shelter. The Aegean has strong NW winds for many days of the summer and finding shelter can be a challenge. This season we sailed Lefkas to Rhodes (where the yacht is currently) and will return to Lefkas. Next year back to Croatia!
TS

Some sailors like the winds, others not I got fed up with the permanent lack of wind (or nasty boras) in Croatia, so indeed it was one of the main causes of leaving that country. You will hardly find any winds in The Ionian, too, whereas The Cyclades are known for notorious Meltemi (last weeks reaching over 40 kn), but in The Dodecanese and Western Sporades you can easily can find shelter, even in spite of the wind speed increases on leeward side of the islands. I am now in Rhodes, truly enjoying the winds, especially during hot days. Next weeks I am planning to go to the north. See you around!

[TomCio]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’m based in Lefkada and have been sailing in Croatia before. In my experience while Greek sailing costs are rising ( with more town quays charging more ) costs remain well below Croatia.

But overall having chartered all over the place , you can’t beat the Med ,sailing , culture , antiquity , and of course the food.

True! Italy seems quite a viable option, too, although the harbour infrastructure in The South is worse than in Greece now.

[505isLife]

We spent two weeks out of Split last September and it was outstanding. We've chartered for several years in the PNW, but had never med moored.

If you are a calm and sensible soul, i would not let it deter you. Conditions we good for all of our attempts. The marinos were very good, generally middle aged guys who have undoubtly helped thousands of boats tie up. They speak universal combination of single-sylable german, french, italian russian and swedish. Its fine to let them know you are new to med mooring.

I suspect that slimelines are easier than the full med-mooring of Greece. You don't have the anchor to manage, or worries about holding or crossed chain.

Things that were helpful:
Having all your gear setup in advance, lines, fenders etc.
A quick talk through with the crew, their role, and what the plan was, any concerns. (My core crew have sailed with me for several years which helps)
Crew appreciated cheap rubberized garden gloves for the slime lines.


If you have a boat to leeward, or are tucked between two, that can make it much easier. Just have the crew alert for fenders rolling out of position. once you are tucked in between, and a few feet off the dock, you just have to maintain position fore and aft, and the crew has plenty of time to get the slime lines up and adjusted.

I had a backup in mind for marina days if I didn't like the conditions. When we saw the guy in Vis ripping through the mooring field, surfing on his laser, it was an easy decision to pick up a ball, rather than attempt the quay. We could still watch Momma Mia projected on the outdoor theater wall from the cockpit.

With just enough speed to maintain steerage, and alert crew with fenders, you can get through a lot of the learning curve.

In two weeks, we spent 5 nights in a marina or town/restaurant quay, a couple of nights on a ball, and the balance anchored stern-to somewhere pretty. Marina's can be crazy expensive, so you may not want to build your trip around them anyway.

If you are reasonably comfortable with yourself, if you have at least one dependable crew (knows to not lead the lines over the life lines, makes a reliable cleat hitch) you should go. Croatia is amazing.

[Jenneau Owner]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

The "proper" way is to go toward the shore at speed, drop the anchor and secure the chain, put engine in neutral. The anchor will grab, the boat will turn around on its bow and if everything goes according to plan you will be 3 feet from the dock. No backing required. This is by far the fastest docking method.

Sailing is generally easy but you either get too little wind (hot) or too much wind. Not to worry, if there is too much wind, you just stay ashore, eat and drink.

My god.
People wonder why most private boat owners anchor off and don’t go stern to .
The answer is above .

[Airfix]

Originally Posted by Jenneau Owner

My god.
People wonder why most private boat owners anchor off and don’t go stern to .
The answer is above .

I'm pretty sure he was just yanking my chain!

[Airfix]

Originally Posted by 505isLife

Things that were helpful:
Having all your gear setup in advance, lines, fenders etc.
A quick talk through with the crew, their role, and what the plan was, any concerns. (My core crew have sailed with me for several years which helps)
Crew appreciated cheap rubberized garden gloves for the slime lines.


If you have a boat to leeward, or are tucked between two, that can make it much easier. Just have the crew alert for fenders rolling out of position. once you are tucked in between, and a few feet off the dock, you just have to maintain position fore and aft, and the crew has plenty of time to get the slime lines up and adjusted.

In two weeks, we spent 5 nights in a marina or town/restaurant quay, a couple of nights on a ball, and the balance anchored stern-to somewhere pretty. Marina's can be crazy expensive, so you may not want to build your trip around them anyway.

If you are reasonably comfortable with yourself, if you have at least one dependable crew (knows to not lead the lines over the life lines, makes a reliable cleat hitch) you should go. Croatia is amazing.

Thanks for the great tips. I have reserved a charter boat for 7 days next June using Sailing Ultra out of Trogir. The downside about Sailing Ultra is they want you back in the marina the day prior to your charter and and you don't start the charter until 5pm on day 1. that's really only 6 days of sailing unlike other charters in the Caribbean where you get 8 days sailing for 7 nights.

I have a really excellent 1st mate who has way more experience than I and has chartered in Croatia a few times before so I'm feeling good about it.

I was originally planning for a mono hull but with input from the crew we decided to charter a 45ft cat for social experience and for those less interested in the sailing aspect.

Does anybody have a recommendation on a cruising guide? Is Imray's Adriatic Pilot the go to? It really is only a port guide and doesn't seem to discuss local attractions and touristy stuff. I guess we can combine that with a lonely planet type guide book.

Airfix

[505isLife]

Sounds like a good plan..
We had the best luck with the Navily app. Sort of Yelp for anchorages. Once you know roughly where you want to be, click around in Navily to find something that suits.
We looked, but never found a good guide in book form.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Airfix

The downside about Sailing Ultra is they want you back in the marina the day prior to your charter and and you don't start the charter until 5pm on day 1. that's really only 6 days of sailing unlike other charters in the Caribbean where you get 8 days sailing for 7 nights.

That they want you in the day before is standard. They need time to clean the boats on saturday, and do some repairs.
How do they do it in the Carib? Do charters not start and end on the same day? 8 days of sailing looks to me like a charter that runs from saturday morning till next saturday evening. Which means that the next charter could only start on sunday... Looks difficult to schedule.

There are a few charterers that do 10 day charters, and one way charters. A few years ago I did two week a one way Dubrovnik - Trogir. This year in July I did a short one week out of Pula.

Does anybody have a recommendation on a cruising guide? Is Imray's Adriatic Pilot the go to? It really is only a port guide and doesn't seem to discuss local attractions and touristy stuff. I guess we can combine that with a lonely planet type guide book.

My go to guide is the "888 Hafen und Buchten" van Karl-Heinz Beständig. But that is in German. There exists an English version called "777 Harbors and Anchorages", and there was a copy of that on board our charter.

This was the first time I chartered a yacht with double rudder, and the way it went in reverse had me struggle at times at first.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by acunningham

Both Croatia and Greece are easy for relatively inexperienced skippers. RYA Day Skipper or ASA 104 are quite sufficient. Do practice Mediterranean mooring a couple of times in an empty harbour before doing it in crowded conditions. Most harbours are quiet from late morning to early afternoon while the charter fleet is out and about, so this is a good time to practice.

Late May and early June is a great time of year for Croatia and Greece. It's warm but not hot, and busy but not too busy. Do expect to do quite a bit of motoring due to light winds though, especially in Croatia and the Ionian Islands.

Be aware Greece is not accepting day skipper. You need a icc

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Be aware Greece is not accepting day skipper. You need a icc…

… which you can get automatically if you have Day Skipper (and apply and pay the fee).
Free for RYA members.

[svtickles]

I watched a professional skipper park a cat 46 one day in a very tight Gaios (Paxos Island) reverse-to mooring. It looked real messy with both motors going to and from.

On the following week, I had a cat 40 underneath me for the first time ever. I think I had 5 meters in front of the cat to the rocks as I turned 90 deg. It was a bit scary parking that jumbo (to me) between two other cats but it turned out ok! Really helped that the professional skipper next door came out and gave us some advice on the length of lines to the wall (e.g., keep enough distance at the rear when other boats pass in front so they don't throw us on the wall with their wake).

I sailed in north Croatia in June 2019 and enjoyed it a lot. Did Corfu in July 2022 for 2 weeks (Beneteau 38 then a Lagoon 40). The only issue is that places were very full by 3-4pm.

Navily was very helpful and I recommend the full subscription.

[Dantsw13]

There can be a very snobbish attitude to flotillas. Some deserve the reputation but many are excellent.

I am a competent experienced sailor, but for my holiday I like to know I have a spot reserved in our nights destination, there will be a group of likeminded people to socialise with, my kids can play with other families and if the charter boat breaks, someone is there to fix it.

I use Odysseus sailing, booked through nautilus in the uk. Based out of Palairos - close to Preveza, but a small marina with lovely local facilities, restaurants, coffee shops, beach club (allow you to stay on their beach after checkout until your flight transfer) and supermarkets who deliver to the boat for free.

A holiday has to satisfy the whole family, not just the sailor. A good flotilla keeps them wanting more. When I want to race, I go racing!!

As for med mooring - preparation is key! Fenders set correctly, stern lines set up and free to run properly with the lifelines, and make sure everyone knows the plan and their jobs!

Stress free mooring = a pleasant evening ��