How is Greece or Croatia for new bareboat skippers?

[goboatingnow]

Just back from two nights in Palorous. Sadly the curry house chef is gone home. Now what will I do for my monthly curry fix. He was very good and seemingly he’s not coming back

Med mooring is actually easier than alongside and safer and less risk of damage

Useful tips go bow in to judge depth , see if lazy lines or anchor, size up the neighbours. Then back out and do the med moor . Always be aware of rubble at the base of the quay wall

This year was “ bonanza “ flotilla year , Neilson doubled theirs as did sailing holiday and odyssey’s. I was drinking with pip and Jordan from palorous and they were absolutely knackered after the season

[Dantsw13]

Pip and Jordan are brilliant - I’m not surprised they are knackered! They run the flotilla for the benefit of the sailors, working their nuts off.

! Say hi from Dan the airline pilot (sailed Coral late July)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dantsw13

Pip and Jordan are brilliant - I’m not surprised they are knackered! They run the flotilla for the benefit of the sailors, working their nuts off.



! Say hi from Dan the airline pilot (sailed Coral late July)

They are crossing the Atlantic on a luxury cat as crew at the moment.

I’m helping sorting out their boat over the winter.

Will say hi , they’ll be back at Christmas

[Airfix]

Just back from my week long trip out of Trogir on an Ultra-Sailing Elba 45. It was a fantastic week. Great winds most days despite the lack of wind shown on Windy and PredictWind.

Managed a couple of Med moorings no problem
The slime lines make it not too difficult but I didn't have any strong cross winds and I didn't have to squeeze between 2 boats as there was always plenty of space.

Mostly we were in quiet bays using anchor and stem to shore lines. It really was a great experience and thoroughly recommend it.

You can't do better than Sailing-Ultra as a bare boat outfit there.

Next time I want to go for 2 weeks and do a one way charter.

Thanks again for all the tips.

Cheers,

Airfix

[Bullshooter]

This has been very helpful. I’m going to charter in Greece next year, we loved Croatia a few years ago.

Are mooring balls plentiful in Greece?

I am used to anchoring or mooring and going to shore via dinghy. I found med mooring pretty easy but that was with slime lines, not anchors. I doubt it will be very difficult unless a strong crosswind is present. If so, and quays are crowded, I think I’d prefer a mooring ball, or anchor where there is good bottom.

Any info on how prevalent mooring balls are, and typical pricing will help me plan.

Another question I had was this:

Can you charter from Alimos near Athens and choose Saronic vs. Cyclades based on the latest weather prediction when you arrive?

Thanks

Bser

[svtickles]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Are mooring balls plentiful in Greece?

No, they are not common. Some harbours may have a few but these belong to local fishermen or small craft for hire. It's usually too shallow there anyway.

We anchor 90-95% of the time and go stern-to a quay the rest of the time when we need to go shopping. Anchoring is always free in Greece so it doesn't make sense to use a mooring ball.

[capnmatt]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Another question I had was this:

Can you charter from Alimos near Athens and choose Saronic vs. Cyclades based on the latest weather prediction when you arrive?

Thanks

Bser

We are chartering out of Athens this September and that is exactly what our plan is. If strong meltamis are forecasted we will explore the Saronic and possibly Argolic gulfs. We have two weeks so hope to get to the Cyclades, but I also think there is plenty to see closer to Athens as well.

Like you, we chartered Croatia a couple years ago and loved it - other than it was pretty expensive. Greece looks a bit cheaper for the most part. And I am taking your approach on Med-Mooring as well. If I'm uncomfortable with the conditions we will find somewhere to anchor. That said, my friend who has been sailing the Med for the last few years told me he thinks it's easier to med-moor using the anchor versus laid lines. Once you set the anchor you can use it to guide you back and pivot off of. I could see how that is true that when we were anchoring with stern lines to shore in Croatia.

I'll report back after my trip.

[Bullshooter]

Thanks capnmatt, I'm eager to heart how it went.

Do you know if the meltemi is reliably forecast for x days ahead of time?

[Harryj50]

Our experience chartering in Greece with Sunsail a number of years ago was excellent. We sailed the Ionian in a flotilla which made everything easier - e.g. they did the weather and provided advice regarding anchoring vs a med moor at the dock for the various locations that we were going to be visiting.

For other locations where we have sailed (e.g. Mexico, French Polynesia) we find Predictwind helpful for weather. It has generally provided useful advice regarding what's coming up and they make extensive use of the European weather models which should help in most parts of Greece.

[Bullshooter]

OK, thanks svtickles, I am happy anchoring when holding ground is good. I found in numerous spots in Croatia that the rocky bottoms were so steep near the land that it was dicey getting a good set.

When med moored at one quay, a boat came in and tied up next to me quite expertly. I talked to the crew, and it turned out that all aboard were charter captains on a fun run of sorts. I asked how do they find the bays with the good anchoring locations. I was told that they just knew them all from working along the Dalmation coast.

Of course I was able to look at charts to see the bathymetry, but as that is only part of the picture, I was happy to use mooring balls when possible.

Is Greece similar in that regard? Or are there lots of choices for good holding ground?

[Bullshooter]

HarryJ, I have PredictWind and I was just looking at windfinder.com. I had read elsewhere that the Meltemi could whip up quickly without warning.

"The problem is that this wind can be a little unpredictable in that it can suddenly start up without any warning even when the weather is glorious, thus catching you off guard because you least expect it." from Kavas.com

[capnmatt]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Thanks capnmatt, I'm eager to heart how it went.

Do you know if the meltemi is reliably forecast for x days ahead of time?

I have read that meltami winds are usually reliably forecast in advance. Not sure if the wind apps forecast it accurately or if it's best to dial in to a more local source - guess I'll talk to the charter company about this during the briefing. I figure I'll be conservative and over-reef any time there is a hint of a meltami in the forecast.

[goeasy123]

Here's some ideas.

Go with one of the smaller Greek companies on Lefkada. We found Sail Ionia and Nisos good value and supportive.

Avoid the Aegean... you can get stiff winds for a week.

Go May to mid June. The waters cold earlier than that and too crowded and hot in July and August.
Get a skipper for a day to sort out the Med mooring and tell you all the local does and dont's, gems and places to avoid. AND you must learn how to anchor with lines ashore!!

Go for at least 2 weeks so that you can head south and east up the bay of Patras as far as Galaxhidi. This is away from the charter crowds.
Things to see an do:
- Anchor in the white cliff bays on the west coast of Zakintos
- Park in Katacolon and go see Olympia
- Go stern to in the ancient harbour at Nafpaktos, climb the ramparts of the Ottoman fort and learn about the battle of Lepantos.... and the impact it has had on western culture up until today.

- Park at Galaxidi and get the 2 Euro bus up to Delphi.
- Spend a day on Trizonia Island.
- Anchor in solitude in Petalas Bay.
- Anchor in Vilho Bay and get a Irish Breakfast at the Yacht Club (which is next to Sail Ionia)

[Bullshooter]

Thanks for the tips Goeasy123!

One concern I had about the Ionian sea is reports that there is little wind, so one would be motoring much of the time. Was that your experience?

[goeasy123]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Thanks for the tips Goeasy123!

One concern I had about the Ionian sea is reports that there is little wind, so one would be motoring much of the time. Was that your experience?

Well, that's an interesting observation... and another reason you should go south and east and maybe a bit west.


Here's what happens in the charter heavy area between Meganissi and the bottom of Ithaca. The prevailing wind is NW over the top of Kef and Ithaca. The sun rises in the east and warms the east facing slopes of the islands creating an up draft opposing prevailing winds. This makes for a huge day-wide-motoring dead patch between the islands the mainland and the mouth of the gulf of Patras until the sun stops heating the slopes. Then you get a hoolie and choppy seas for a couple of hours. This timing is a PITA if you need to get into port somewhere by 4pm to get a space.


Between Lefkas and Meg you get wind coming over the gap between north Lefkada and the mainland. But this is a small area to sail in and the otherwise useful conditions are often upset by major convections currents on the mainland.


The channel between the Kef and Ithaca is a wind tunnel leading to uninteresting and crowded destinations.


These areas are more about super chilled beer (nice) and copious amounts of burnt pork (!) rather than sailing or experiencing the real Greece.
The outside of the islands are good sailing. The west coast of Lefkada has nothing, but the outside of Kef and Zakintos are stunning.


The wind in the bay of Patras is going either left or right at various useful wind speeds and as I said it’s good for seeing and doing.


We’ve boarded in Vilho Bay, anchored of Nidri to provision (drink super chilled bear and eat burnt pork). Headed for anchorage off Sivota or Vasiliki. Down the outside of Kef round the bottom of Zakintos up to Katcolon and then up and down the Bay of Patras. If you run out of time you can always short cut back across the inland sea to get back in time.



And BTW we're just about to buy a boat to do the loop.... might get to you by Fat Tuesday!!