In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

[woodenboats]

Originally Posted by hoppy

This all assumes that there are no free trade agreement or immigration agreements made post Brexit.

They will be made. But as with all such treaties it will take 5 - 6 years. Whatever is left of the UK by then - the Scots will be member of the EU and Schengen more quickly.

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[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I would take the polls saying the people in the EU love the EU with a huge grain of salt. They've been threatened time and time again that they will be reduced to 3rd world status if they leave.

Of course, they aren't going to support moving to 3rd world status but in reality short of intentionally punishing a country that leaves, no one is going to move to 3rd world status.

Every EU poll since the poll of Public Opinion about the EU was carried out about 15 years ago, and which showed that sentiment all across the EU was running at 86% (ish) to 93% (ish) against what the EU was doing in their name (that's when they started trotting out the nonsense about "We must Educate the People of Europe in the benefits of the EU" - ignoring the reality that it was being all too Educated in the failures and weaknesses of the EU that led people to have those views), has been rigged, so the insulated incompetent imbeciles in their Ivory Towers paid for at Public Expense, don't have to have uncomfortable thoughts about the security of their necks.

The anti-EU sentiments of the British are entirely in line with the same sentiments across the whole of the EU (as an aside it was 2002 when travelling across Poland that I first heard the widespread description of the EU as the EUSSR).

Anybody that thinks ALL of the EU member Nations aren't knocking on Third World status (even Germany is absolutely worse than broke), with the financial crimes that have been committed, simply hasn't been paying attention.

Those that trot out the nonsense about the EU being 'popular', and that most people 'like the EU', are completely detached from reality, and are usually working for the EU, with no income tax, and just like in Communist Russia, they have access to "Ye Olde Partie Shoppe" where they can get the best of everything for heavily subsidised prices, with no purchase taxes on them.

[Ribbit]

Anybody that thinks the EU has a future, had better watch this all the way through (this isn't happening just in Poland):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hakb6S0IpgY

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by hoppy

This all assumes that there are no free trade agreement or immigration agreements made post Brexit.

There will not be any. The EU will go to pieces soon after Britain votes out. A bit later if they stay.

How the EU handles challenges with Greece and now with the immigrants from Syria shows the EC is a heavy clunky organism concentrated mostly on multiplication of useless regulation streamed from Brussels. Too much blah blah blah too little action.

There is neither political will nor public support to take things one step further and the bureaucracy in B has reached the level of self gratification negating any hope of the EU remaining one and a power to count with.

b.

[woodenboats]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The EU will go to pieces soon after Britain votes out.

And Britannia will rule the world again, which turns out to be a disc. :-)



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[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Catastrophes like the Boer War, the self centred scum like Cecil Rhodes (despised by just about everybody in Britain, including the Government and Royalty, for the damage they were doing, and who actually caused the Boer War), and the total disaster that was the Great War.

Once the Communists took over both Oxford and Cambridge, it was all over.

If the EU survives long enough (I doubt it), they will destroy that too.

Hmmm.. I'll not walk the road of Macarthyism.. it leads nowhere and brings no good.
As for the Boer war.. that was an inevitability.. the English and the Afrikaners were not exactly bosom friends.. Sir Theophilus Shepstone I believe actually precipitated the Boer War when he annexed the Cape Colony's.. but Rhodes because of his ambitions and was a handy whipping post when Jamieson took it on himself to lead a disasterous raid.. a bit like the idiot in India who slaughtered nearly 2000 Indians in a walled garden.. those that were not killed in the hail of bullets died in the well in the centre.. the only refuge from the massacre..
No communism.. just imperial arrogance and the sense of invulnerability amongst the second sons of the aristocracy.. pride cometh before the fall.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by woodenboats

And Britannia will rule the world again, which turns out to be a disc. :-)

What the stupid Continental 'elites' could never comprehend was, Britain never Ruled the World.

It was the Law that Ruled the Empire, and every member of the Empire had Freedom Under the Rule of Law.

You don't 'run' the World, with 4,000 Civil Servants, and around 160,000 Men at Arms. Which was what we managed the Empire with up until WW1.

But 'Brittania' DID Rule the Waves, and because of that, the foundations of Freedom, Prosperity, and Trade, were a Civilising influence. No "Trade Deals" needed.

Member Nations ran their own affairs, pretty much as they do today in the British Commonwealth. When they needed assistance, or appeals for clarification in matters of Law, we were there for them.

Which of course is not to say that there weren't occasionally massive problems caused by scumbags such as Cecil Rhodes.

[woodenboats]

Which is why there was never any struggle to leave the empire. Nations could just declare independence, and Gandhi just didn't understand the procedure?

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[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

What the stupid Continental 'elites' could never comprehend was, Britain never Ruled the World.

It was the Law that Ruled the Empire, and every member of the Empire had Freedom Under the Rule of Law.

You don't 'run' the World, with 4,000 Civil Servants, and around 160,000 Men at Arms. Which was what we managed the Empire with up until WW1.

But 'Brittania' DID Rule the Waves, and because of that, the foundations of Freedom, Prosperity, and Trade, were a Civilising influence. No "Trade Deals" needed.

Member Nations ran their own affairs, pretty much as they do today in the British Commonwealth. When they needed assistance, or appeals for clarification in matters of Law, we were there for them.

Which of course is not to say that there weren't occasionally massive problems caused by scumbags such as Cecil Rhodes.

You really do not like Rhodes do you..
Woodenboats.. where the British went wrong in India.. the straw that broke the camels back so to speak was the banning of Indians from weaving their own cloth from their cotton.. instead it was shipped to the Lancashire mills and fuelled the Industrial revolution.
If Parliament had not then added insult to injury (against the advice of the 'Wog Lovers' who had settled and worked with the Indians) then compelled the Indians to buy the factory products at expensive prices the story may have been different and 3 million Hindu's and Muslims may not have slaughtered each other needlessly in the Partition..
Rhodes was small change..

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I'll not walk the road of Macarthyism.. it leads nowhere and brings no good.


As for the Boer war.. that was an inevitability.. the English and the Afrikaners were not exactly bosom friends.. Sir Theophilus Shepstone I believe actually precipitated the Boer War when he annexed the Cape Colony's.. but Rhodes because of his ambitions and was a handy whipping post when Jamieson took it on himself to lead a disasterous raid.. a bit like the idiot in India who slaughtered nearly 2000 Indians in a walled garden.. those that were not killed in the hail of bullets died in the well in the centre.. the only refuge from the massacre..
No communism.. just imperial arrogance and the sense of invulnerability amongst the second sons of the aristocracy.. pride cometh before the fall.

If you read the KGB papers that were released after the fall of the Berlin Wall, McCarthy was proved right up to a point.

The reality though, was far, far worse, than even McCarthy suspected (additionally confirmed to me by my an-GF, who had been a KGB scientist - great girl ).

The West owes Mr McCarthy, a long and very humble apology.

The main instigators of the Boer War were Cecil Rhodes and the Governor of South Africa (this is well documented). There have been a lot of lies told about the Boer War since. The 'Concentration Camps' for example. The Boers sent their wives and children to the British so they could continue the war, knowing they would be looked after, and they were put into refugee camps. Unfortunately Lord Roberts and Kitchener had no idea about hygiene in the South African climate, or what was required (despite Florence Nightingale having set the standard so much earlier). As a result, the poor refugees suffered the same appalling casualties, as the British Troops did, 'looked after' in identical unhygienic conditions to the Military accommodation, for exactly the same reasons.
If Redvers Buller (that 'Modern Major-General' that Gilbert & Sullivan wrote about, a favourite of Queen Victoria's) had remained in command, it likely wouldn't have happened, but Lord Roberts' son was killed in an attack under Buller, and Roberts held him personally responsible, and worked tirelessly to get him removed and to replace him, after.

I don't disagree about the quality of the people that were available to run the Empire after the colossal losses of the Boer War and the First World War. The dregs that were left were rather lacking (to say the least) in the main.

I did have some insights into it all from my Great Grandmother as well, who was a Government Minister's Chef at the time (and heard all the ins and outs of everything at the frequent hosted events), and her blood would boil just at the mention of "that appalling, dishonourable man" Cecil Rhodes.

eta: No Boaty, I do not like people in the mould of Cecil Rhodes. It is exactly this type that is presently wreaking havoc with the EU. The EU is packed out with the Guy Maurice Marie Louise Verhofstadt and Martin Schulz types, sad to say. They never do any good.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by woodenboats

Which is why there was never any struggle to leave the empire. Nations could just declare independence, and Gandhi just didn't understand the procedure?

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A lot of those struggles were involved in combatting anti-Freedom elements, such as against the Communists in Malaya.

Once the Communists were beaten, Malaya got its independence.

Yes there were some wrong people in charge in the wrong places at the wrong time. These people did not know how important it was not to interfere, and they did now know how important it was to serve others rather than themselves.

They were completely unfit for purpose, but that's all that was left, pretty much.

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=Ribbit;2067057]If you read the KGB papers that were released after the fall of the Berlin Wall, McCarthy was proved right up to a point.

The reality though, was far, far worse, than even McCarthy suspected (additionally confirmed to me by my an-GF, who had been a KGB scientist - great girl ).

The West owes Mr McCarthy, a long and very humble apology.

Fortunately I am from the East.. so do not feel the need.. but he and Hoover were paranoid nuts who wrecked many peoples lives, whose only crime was knowing the wrong people.. and not their personal beliefs.
I feel Communism and Facisim are too alien to the spirit of the UK to take a hold.. as Mosely found out..
There may be a good natured tolerance for a while but we don't tolerate bullies for long.. like the BNP.
I can't go further else I'll then be accused of racism..

[Vladis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

... talks have taken place with a view to Portugal being absorbed to create a Greater Spain..

Filipe VI of Spain is in Lisbon today for the investiture of the new Portuguese president! As per you sources of information, when do you think he will be Filipe IV of Portugal?

[Stu Jackson]

[QUOTE=boatman61;2067118]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

If you read the KGB papers that were released after the fall of the Berlin Wall, McCarthy was proved right up to a point.

The reality though, was far, far worse, than even McCarthy suspected (additionally confirmed to me by my an-GF, who had been a KGB scientist - great girl ).

The West owes Mr McCarthy, a long and very humble apology.

Fortunately I am from the East.. so do not feel the need.. but he and Hoover were paranoid nuts who wrecked many peoples lives, whose only crime was knowing the wrong people.. and not their personal beliefs.
I feel Communism and Facisim are too alien to the spirit of the UK to take a hold.. as Mosely found out..
There may be a good natured tolerance for a while but we don't tolerate bullies for long.. like the BNP.
I can't go further else I'll then be accused of racism..

Thanks boaty. McCarthy was a true scumbag, who lied and cheated and ruined people's lives unnecessarily.

Just ask Ed Murrow.

Good Night & Good Luck.

Actually quite a very good movie, too.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Vladis

Filipe VI of Spain is in Lisbon today for the investiture of the new Portuguese president! As per you sources of information, when do you think he will be Filipe IV of Portugal?

As per my info which is basically hearsay that I put forward to test the rhetoric that was flowing earlier..
Informal backroom talks were conducted by Socrates and select ministers as to the possibilities of such an event.. at no point did I claim it was something set in stone.
It will be interesting to see how Marcello gets on actually.. he seems the polar opposite of Cavaco Silva, lets see if he comes with as many strings.

In my travels I get to meet/know folks at all socio/economic levels and often things are said in private that would not be said in public.
I float comfortably in all levels fortunately.. partly down to my appearance and carriage.. I scrub up pretty good.. and partly down to the fact my accent, speech and language 'Fits' whichever group I happen to be in at the moment. sometimes I can even sound intelligent and I call a spade a spade
Just because its not current with the 'Talking Heads' does not mean it is not true.. or.. simply a barefaced lie..
However the swift retreat indicates a nerve was touched in my opinion.
I really could not care either way.. these are not my people and if they choose to go like lambs to the slaughter bleating all the way it is their choice but I do find they would rather talk eternally than act
Myself.. I am an unashamed Monarchist and commoner who lives in the real world.. not the insulated and protected bubble that so many smug media guru's and politicians exist in.. if you don't like me that's Your problem.
Its all very well to come on here with cut and paste Wiki quotes of Legislation and UN drafts.. but we all know how binding those are to States and Nations.
NOT..

What I know is I applied for and got my Spanish Marine Blue Book before Spain was EU proper.. however in this Free Trade, Movement, Equal Work Opportunity European Union I get blocked whichever way I turn over the pettiest detail that can be found.
So I do what the locals do.. ignore the ******** and get on with life.
When the Oscars, a nude selfie of Kim Kardashian, the death of some record producer or last nights Casa de Segredo's is made such a big deal of the people deserve all the **** that lands on their heads..
Real Life is not on some screen..
But that's by the by.. what has some discredited Royal Family who's currently being dragged through the courts have to do with the price of fish.??
There's only so many sets of lips that can fit on a Arse.. if yours is amongst them.. Congratulations