Licenses for Americans sailing in Europe

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by conachair

It might be productive to spend a few hours on Google doing some research, the chances of anyone involved when a "license" was requested being on one thread on one particular web forum must be small - YBW would be a good starting point, if any details of something happening did happen to make it onto the web then there would be a good starting point.



https://www.google.pt/search?q=site%...obile&ie=UTF-8


Edit- seems to make much more sense to look for what has happened, "no one asked me!" doesn't really help much.

I'm guessing only people that had an incident end up posting about it. I'm actually more interested in hearing if there are plenty of people that cruise for years in the med without a license or if people like Barra are outliers.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by conachair

.



https://www.google.pt/search?q=site%...obile&ie=UTF-8


.

Thanks for the link though. It's a good one.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

I'm guessing only people that had an incident end up posting about it. I'm actually more interested in hearing if there are plenty of people that cruise for years in the med without a license or if people like Barra are outliers.

As mentioned before it seems few people get asked, apart from the known places where it's needed to get in, like Croatia. And maybe some Greek ports this month, possibly next...


So if you're after gambling odds, probably quite good.

Barra said he has an Aussie license which has been accepted.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yeloya, all these practical experiences are valuable and interesting, but don't fall into the logical fallacy of thinking "It never happened to me, therefore it can't or won't happen."

It's certainly true that it is fairly rare to be asked to show a license.

On the other hand, I have been driving cars in England on and off for 20 years, and not one single time, in all these 20 years, has any policeman or anyone else asked to see my driver's license.

Does that mean that a driving license is not required to drive a car in England? There you go.

Not the same. Legislation mandates you have a valid driving licence. There is no equivalent 'licence' for a recreational sailboat.

There is legislation concerning things like children with lifevests, being in control of a vessel while intoxicated in many countries.

For example you can be fined for riding a bike while drunk in Australia but there is no bike licence.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Not the same. Legislation mandates you have a valid driving licence. There is no equivalent 'licence' for a recreational sailboat..

That's true in U.S. waters, but that's not what we were talking about.

If you had been following this thread, you would know that many European countries do require qualifications of one kind or another.

[Barra]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

Thanks Barra. I was under the assumption that Croatia would be one of the most likely to ask for qualification. How many port of entries did you experience in croatia?

In and out of Croatia twice by boat. In the south Dubrovnik and in the north rovinj. Both are professionally run and no issues. In rovinj the official wanted a photo id so he accepted my padi card. In his words " you sailed here from Australia you are competent"

Yes Croatia is the one that would potentially have the most cause for concern. The locals are an entrepreneurial lot and have many ways of taking money from tourists both officially and unofficially. As I said the local boat licence story smells of this so I would avoid the seasonal ports for this reason.

Plenty of other Aussie and American skippers in the same situation as myself and none ive met in the past 5 years have had any issues either. I doubt im the outlier rather its the odd horror story that's the outlier I reckon.

[Martinrab]

Americans can get an IPC (International Proficiency Certificate) from the ASA, which covers all of the Med countries. It's just a paper exercise if you already have ASA cert to 104 level. Some clubs in the USA offer shortcut to certification if you're an experienced sailor without credentials. I recently got the IPC for an upcoming charter in Croatia with Sunsail.

[Stakaman]

Good morning/evening to all ..
I am from Greece and I tell you for sure that in Greece and most of the countries in med you will NEED sailing license for your sailing boat ,also you will need (in Greece )powerboat license if you tenders motor is more than 29 horse power ..
These are the state law requires for most of the countries in med
The last 2-3 years thinks are getting harder from coast guard specially in Greece because of the increasing numbers of accidents...
But their focus is on Charter boats !

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Stakaman

Good morning/evening to all ..
I am from Greece and I tell you for sure that in Greece and most of the countries in med you will NEED sailing license for your sailing boat ,also you will need (in Greece )powerboat license if you tenders motor is more than 29 horse power ..
These are the state law requires for most of the countries in med
The last 2-3 years thinks are getting harder from coast guard specially in Greece because of the increasing numbers of accidents...
But their focus is on Charter boats !

Last post, before going out sailing for some months

Yes you are right and on a thread about licences and Greece a well known American member talks about his problems with the Greek authorities regarding sailing his own boat without a licence there.

Making a point of the situation, that was already pretty much cleared by Dockhead, on some parts of the world a licence is needed to sail a boat over a given size or a given engine power. On most cases it is a relatively new demand in others it is several decades old.

Due to the still recent almost global situation and due to the no harmonization of licences, most countries will accept the licences issued by other countries, some have a list of accepted licences, others not.

It has been wrongly assumed, by some, on this thread that sailors from countries where a licence is not needed, can sail without any licence (or certificate) in countries where one is needed to sail.

Contradicting that, you can see that on the lists of accepted licences (that some countries have) regarding the countries that don't have a licence, a certification (ICC, RYA or ASA) is demanded to sail there. ICC is by far the more common and regarding RYA (the more common after that) it is not any qualification but at least coastal Skipper.

Regarding the legislation of all those countries, that some insist that say nothing about that, there is always a paragraph that says something like that: "For sailing a recreational boat (over this or that size) a licence is needed."

Period and end of story. You need a licence and they will accept the one of your country but if your county does not provide one you need one anyway. They will accept certificates of competence on this case, namely ICC.

Authorities in most cases try to be nice but if you try to insist, on a very adamant, tone with them that you don't need any because on your country one is not needed, probably you will be heading for trouble and that's entirely your fault.

The obligation to know what is need to sail in their country is yours, they have jurisdiction over their waters (their rules) and besides, as it was extensively posted on this thread, there is general information available regarding that from yachting credible sources, namely RYA ans Noonsite.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Polux

Last post, before going out sailing for some months

Yes you are right and on a thread about licences and Greece a well known American member talks about his problems with the Greek authorities regarding sailing his own boat without a licence there.

Making a point of the situation, that was already pretty much cleared by Dockhead, on some parts of the world a licence is needed to sail a boat over a given size or a given engine power. On most cases it is a relatively new demand in others it is several decades old.

Due to the still recent almost global situation and due to the no harmonization of licences, most countries will accept the licences issued by other countries, some have a list of accepted licences, others not.

It has been wrongly assumed, by some, on this thread that sailors from countries where a licence is not needed, can sail without any licence (or certificate) in countries where one is needed to sail.

Contradicting that, you can see that on the lists of accepted licences (that some countries have) regarding the countries that don't have a licence, a certification (ICC, RYA or ASA) is demanded to sail there. ICC is by far the more common and regarding RYA (the more common after that) it is not any qualification but at least coastal Skipper.

Regarding the legislation of all those countries, that some insist that say nothing about that, there is always a paragraph that says something like that: "For sailing a recreational boat (over this or that size) a licence is needed."

Period and end of story. You need a licence and they will accept the one of your country but if your county does not provide one you need one anyway. They will accept certificates of competence on this case, namely ICC.

Authorities in most cases try to be nice but if you try to insist, on a very adamant, tone with them that you don't need any because on your country one is not needed, probably you will be heading for trouble and that's entirely your fault.

The obligation to know what is need to sail in their country is yours, they have jurisdiction over their waters (their rules) and besides, as it was extensively posted on this thread, there is general information available regarding that from yachting credible sources, namely RYA ans Noonsite.

Polux,

Pam and I will hopefully see you and your wife out sailing this summer. I depart for Italy in one week with my ICC in hand.

Ken

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff

Not the same. Legislation mandates you have a valid driving licence. There is no equivalent 'licence' for a recreational sailboat.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's true in U.S. waters, but that's not what we were talking about.

If you had been following this thread, you would know that many European countries do require qualifications of one kind or another.

So that's not entirely true. At the federal level there is no boater's license for recreational and personal watercraft, however MANY states DO have such a requirement. It's not exactly a license, but a safe boater certificate issued by an agency that the state recognizes. NASBLA is perhaps the most widely recognized certificate that is issued, and once you get that you have to register your certificate with the sate. In Connecticut registration costs a one time lifetime fee of $50.

However if you have a USCG License, you do not need this certificate.

Many states also recognize ASA 101 as having the equivalent safe boaters certificate.

If the marine police board you and you do not have a USCG License or a NASBLA certificate that has been registered with the state, then you will be fined and may be forced to have your boat towed home at your own expense.

[Scot McPherson]

bye Polux, have fun...

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by Martinrab

Americans can get an IPC (International Proficiency Certificate) from the ASA, which covers all of the Med countries. It's just a paper exercise if you already have ASA cert to 104 level. Some clubs in the USA offer shortcut to certification if you're an experienced sailor without credentials. I recently got the IPC for an upcoming charter in Croatia with Sunsail.

it is very clear you didn't bother reading the thread...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

So that's not entirely true. At the federal level there is no boater's license for recreational and personal watercraft, however MANY states DO have such a requirement. It's not exactly a license, but a safe boater certificate issued by an agency that the state recognizes. NASBLA is perhaps the most widely recognized certificate that is issued, and once you get that you have to register your certificate with the sate. In Connecticut registration costs a one time lifetime fee of $50.

However if you have a USCG License, you do not need this certificate.

Many states also recognize ASA 101 as having the equivalent safe boaters certificate.

If the marine police board you and you do not have a USCG License or a NASBLA certificate that has been registered with the state, then you will be fined and may be forced to have your boat towed home at your own expense.

Thanks for the correction! That's useful information.

[Pyxis156]

Does anyone have first hand experience with presenting a USCG Master's license with Sailing Endorsement to foreign authorities? I noticed in the link to the list of credentials accepted by the Croatian authorities that they were all recreational. How is a US issued commercial license viewed?