Master's License as C of C in Europe

[caribcaptmax]

I have a Panamanian Unlimited Master's License (STCW Certificate of Compentency) with validity from 1989 to 1994, the years when I was a freighter captain. Does anyone know if the European countries, particularly Greece, Spain and Italy, accept a ship captain's certificate of competency in lieu of a yacht ICC? I have sailed my sailboat all over the Caribbean but over here there is no requirement for a pleasure-boat operator's license.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by caribcaptmax

I have a Panamanian Unlimited Master's License (STCW Certificate of Compentency) with validity from 1989 to 1994, the years when I was a freighter captain. Does anyone know if the European countries, particularly Greece, Spain and Italy, accept a ship captain's certificate of competency in lieu of a yacht ICC? I have sailed my sailboat all over the Caribbean but over here there is no requirement for a pleasure-boat operator's license.

I believe it depends on where you hold your passport. If you are an EU citizen you are going to be subject to their licensing requirements. All depends on your country-of-origin's requirements. For US citizens I don't know of any requirements the EU imposes for operation of pleasure vessels.

If you showed up on a megayacht that might be different, but if you were on a megayacht you probably wouldn't be on this forum.

If you intend to operate as a charter business that would also be different.

[caribcaptmax]

Thanks--in the US, there is no national licensing requirement for a pleasure boat operator. Does that mean that the requirement for the ICC only applies to boats from countries that have signed the agreement (IMO Resolution 40), and since the US has not signed the agreement, I don't have to have an ICC? Of course, that would be very good news indeed.

[boatman61]

I have a UK D.O.T Boat Masters licence... renewable every 5yrs...
I let it expire as I no longer skipper boats carrying upto 240 passengers...
Its been expired for 2yrs now, and its not recognised anywhere unless I retake a practical/theoretical test.
If like mine, yours is an expired commercial licence its unlikely to be recognised/accepted..
Especially in Greece where the police are on the ball to an extreme....
Between '94' and today any amount of factors could have occured which would disqualify your entitlement to hold a current valid licence.
Take a Leisure Day/Coastal Skippers test and you'll be fine...
I cover my butt by holding UK, Spanish and Portuguese Coastal Skipper licences upto 22metres and 80gross tons Power and Sail...
good for work as well as leisure...

[caribcaptmax]

Thanks your reply, but of course one doesn't lose his competency even if he doesn't maintain his license. Are you saying that the Euro (Greek, Spanish, Italian, etc.) authorities will accept a Leisure Day/Coastal skipper certificate from a US (in my case) boating association in lieu of an ICC?

[boatman61]

If its an internationally recognised ticket I cant see why not...
Considering the amount of US flagged boats I came across this summer as I was going through the Med...
I doubt very much if they took RYA or other equivalent EU course's.
There is a requirement (except UK) over here for some form of certificate of competency... rarely enforced... but when it is it can have you stopped in one place till you acquire a 'Ticket' or hire someone who has to get your boat out of port..

[goboatingnow]

some confusion here over things

The ICC is only available to citizens of countries that signed up to the IMO /UN resolution. And that same citizen can only get an ICC from their own countries ICC awarding body.

The fact that a country signed resultion 40 only means that it recognises the existence of ICC's for other nationals. It actually doesnt mean you have to issue or need certification for your own nationals to sail. ( which is why i can never fathom why the US didnt sign). For example the UK awards and recognises ICC's but doesnt require its citizens to have it.

In europe, you can only be be asked for certification that you own country requires. If it doesnt require any , then no EU country can ask you to provide it ( obviously) and they do not. Note this is not the case if you use their Inland waterways or if you charter in the foreign country, then you may be subject to their licensing requirements

In practice you will never be asked for it anyway.

Boatman61

There is a requirement (except UK) over here for some form of certificate of competency... rarely enforced... but when it is it can have you stopped in one place till you acquire a 'Ticket' or hire someone who has to get your boat out of port..

Could you show me any legislation in any EU country that requires me to have competency certification where my country doesnt need it ( or award it) where I am using my own boat.

PS: It doesnt exist, you cant force people to acquire certs that dont exist.

Dave

[boatman61]

Okay... if that's the way you feel it works go with it mate...
The UK does not require boat owners to be licenced...
However, in Portugal and in Spain UK boats have been stopped from leaving port because they could not produce proof of competency to handle a boat.
This is not hearsay its first hand experience... witnessed by me and assistance was provided to get them out of port by one of us going aboard a taking command.
The Harbour-master was then quite happy to return the ships papers and allow us to sail...
Portugal has 4 levels of compulsory certification and the boat has to pass a rigorous inspection...
Your in their country boyo... don't mess with them... it never pays.
Also I think you'll find that the ICC does not cover you for inland waterways in Europe... its a separate licence.
Personally I rather have a ticket I'm never asked to show... than never have a ticket and a boat that cant go...

[goboatingnow]

Also I think you'll find that the ICC does not cover you for inland waterways in Europe... its a seperate licence

no its the ICC with in some cases the CEVNI extensions required ( I know I have it)

As to portugal and licenses, they havent even signed Resolution 40. As to what individual harbourmaster get up to thats a different story, and its usually bears no relation to the laws of that land. ( This officials have quite extensive powers).

In 17 years of sailing in France, Italy , Spain and Portugal and teh Med in general, I have never been asked for any "competency" certs. I however am not arguing against certs I pesonally have ICC(with Cevni) , RYA YM sail offshore and Ocean, advanced powerboat,and ASA tickets as well. ( plus a few others too).

[swagman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

some confusion here over things

For example the UK awards and recognises ICC's but doesnt require its citizens to have it.

In europe, you can only be be asked for certification that you own country requires. If it doesnt require any , then no EU country can ask you to provide it ( obviously) and they do not. Note this is not the case if you use their Inland waterways or if you charter in the foreign country, then you may be subject to their licensing requirements

In practice you will never be asked for it anyway.

Boatman61


Could you show me any legislation in any EU country that requires me to have competency certification where my country doesnt need it ( or award it) where I am using my own boat.

PS: It doesnt exist, you cant force people to acquire certs that dont exist.

Dave

You are right Dave about the legalities but sadly wrong about the realities as we learnt three years back in Turkey.

We sailed through just about all the Med bordering countries and never had a problem with having no formal qualifications (as one does not need them in the UK or Australia) until I really needed to get an exit stamp from Turkey on a dinghy purchase invoice (so as to reclaim Turkish VAT). The small harbourmaster insisted we clear out formally to get this and I though that would not be a problem. We've formally cleared in and out of Turkey several times before. But in this case on that day he insisted I produce my 'qualifications' because his documentation had a box that needed filling.

No amount of smiling, wheedling, discussion or arguments about the lack of legal maritime need would see him clear us out without a document with a number on it he could copy into his box. Had I known in advance I might even have created a false document as I am sure that would have sufficed.

I finally gave up the argument and we sailed on to the next Turkish port and cleared out there with no issues at all.

The point I am making is you may not need the qualification but if you get a grumpy old bugger of an offical as we did, you'll welcome the fact you've got it. I took my ICC the very next time I was back in the UK.

Cheers
JOHN

[goboatingnow]

The point I am making is you may not need the qualification but if you get a grumpy old bugger of an offical as we did, you'll welcome the fact you've got it. I took my ICC the very next time I was back in the

Not arguing the point, some officials have never heard of their own countries law. I have run ito a few particulary in Portugal. ( A country that I dislike for its officialness).I have loads of competency certs. ( 8 at last count)

dave

[boatman61]

Funny enough I've found Portugal to be one of the more laid back countries... personally speaking... even getting the VAT on a boat I bought in the BVI's was only a 30minute inspection and the papers checked... the next day it was done and I was presented with the nessecary paperwork and free to sail on...
Just gotta be a 'Boy Scout' about it... Be Prepared....

[caribcaptmax]

Thanks to all who posted; a related question to Phil: does Spain or Portugal require liability insurance in order to clear into the country? I'm a solo sailor and cannot get any kind of insurance, and would like to stop somewhere on the way from the Suez Canal to the Atlantic. Thanks--Max

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by caribcaptmax

Thanks to all who posted; a related question to Phil: does Spain or Portugal require liability insurance in order to clear into the country? I'm a solo sailor and cannot get any kind of insurance, and would like to stop somewhere on the way from the Suez Canal to the Atlantic. Thanks--Max

Dunno if your talking to this Phil or another...lol
But Third Party Insurance is required/asked for in most ports/marinas when clearing in...
I had a hell of a performance in Greece when the only proof of insurance was on my laptop not a piece of paper... some folks take things to silly extremes... eventually I persuaded him that the Ref/customr details were enough... a photocopy was NOT nessecary... lol.
Or... you could just stick to anchorages which are usually ignored and just visit marinas for fueling and water... I'm more often than not uninsured... 'Blue eyes n Bull ****'... it works
PS... you'll need it for Suez so try Panteneaus

[goboatingnow]

even getting the VAT on a boat I bought in the BVI's was only a 30minute inspection and the papers checked.

most countries dont even check, why did they in Portugal.

does Spain or Portugal require liability insurance in order to clear into the country?

No they do not, but you will not be allowed to stay in any marina and a lot of public harbours without it.

NOTE: you only need third party public liability insurance, not full cover, its usually easy to get and cheap and you can even limit it to specific countries, Mine cost 80 euros

You need only really two pieces of paper to sail the med, boat reg and boat insurance.