New Schengen Visa Rules from Feb 2020

[Sand crab]

Here's a question. I was born in France as a US army brat. Born in a french hospital with a french birth certificate. But I also have a form from the State department: child born abroad to American parents which establishes me as a yank. We came back to the US when I was a baby and haven't been to Europe since. Would the french birth certificate give me any special rules waiver? I have no ties there and a US passport.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Here's a question. I was born in France as a US army brat. Born in a french hospital with a french birth certificate. But I also have a form from the State department: child born abroad to American parents which establishes me as a yank. We came back to the US when I was a baby and haven't been to Europe since. Would the french birth certificate give me any special rules waiver? I have no ties there and a US passport.

If you have the birth certificate then you can get a passport - Not sure if USA citizens can hold multiple passports though?

[boom23]

Originally Posted by UFO

If you have the birth certificate then you can get a passport - Not sure if USA citizens can hold multiple passports though?

USA citizens can hold multiple passports, depending on the country.

[AlfaGTV]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Here's a question. I was born in France as a US army brat. Born in a french hospital with a french birth certificate. But I also have a form from the State department: child born abroad to American parents which establishes me as a yank. We came back to the US when I was a baby and haven't been to Europe since. Would the french birth certificate give me any special rules waiver? I have no ties there and a US passport.

Sorry, being born in France is not enough to obtain French nationality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_nationality_law

[Chotu]

Dockhead:

All your posts discuss residency. What if you are 100% not a resident of a country in any way (Ireland) and have never stepped foot on the country's soil, but are a citizen of the country (Ireland) and/or hold a passport from the country (Ireland)?

What's the VAT liability on the foreign (USA) flagged vessel from outside the EU run by a non resident crew with American residency, but a crew that is also a citizen of an EU country (Ireland) with no residency there?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Dockhead:

All your posts discuss residency. What if you are 100% not a resident of a country in any way (Ireland) and have never stepped foot on the country's soil, but are a citizen of the country (Ireland) and/or hold a passport from the country (Ireland)?

What's the VAT liability on the foreign (USA) flagged vessel from outside the EU run by a non resident crew with American residency, but a crew that is also a citizen of an EU country (Ireland) with no residency there?

Ignoring the Irish crew for a moment, this might help:

https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectio...20THE%20EU.pdf

Plus para 5.1 in this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...he-uk#section5

However, this is for the UK so its all going to change in a weeks time, though the rules ought to be similar in other EU countries.

Pete

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Here's a question. I was born in France as a US army brat. Born in a french hospital with a french birth certificate. But I also have a form from the State department: child born abroad to American parents which establishes me as a yank. We came back to the US when I was a baby and haven't been to Europe since. Would the french birth certificate give me any special rules waiver? I have no ties there and a US passport.

France is one of the few countries besides the U.S. which recognizes jus solis besides jus sanguinis, so subject to certain conditions you MIGHT have the right to French citizenship. A French passport would be an immensely valuable document. I don't know the rules and conditions, but maybe worth checking out.

The birth certificate by itself is not relevant, but if you can get a French passport, you're golden in Europe. I'd give my eye tooth for one of those.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Dockhead:

All your posts discuss residency. What if you are 100% not a resident of a country in any way (Ireland) and have never stepped foot on the country's soil, but are a citizen of the country (Ireland) and/or hold a passport from the country (Ireland)?

What's the VAT liability on the foreign (USA) flagged vessel from outside the EU run by a non resident crew with American residency, but a crew that is also a citizen of an EU country (Ireland) with no residency there?

As I read the rules, residency is the key and not citizenship, so it shouldn't make any difference. But get qualified advice before trying this out; next stage would be RYA legal department.

[boatman61]

Claim your Syrian..
You can go anywhere and stay as long as you like..

[Chotu]

Thanks for the additional insight, guys. It's a tricky one. And the Syrian joke had me laughing. Ha ha.

[Hartings]

The massively divergent views expressed here (I know who’s interpretation I prefer) serve to confirm one thing : get professional advice. Despite claims to the contrary I believe the UK does formally leave the EU next week and we do not simultaneously ‘rejoin’.

[rxcsailnet]

One last item.

We are American citizens, and we wanted to be residents in France. We did not pay VAT or import tax (two different things, totaling about 33% of the value of the boat, whatever that is determined to be) on the boat when we imported it as part of our household goods shipment. The boat arrived separately from the two containers (I sailed it over). But the paperwork was linked together, because the EU allows separate shipments, in one year. You have to get a visa for a change of residence before you leave the US. We used a specialist importer to handle both the household goods and the boat, and received a special piece of paper documenting the tax-free importation. We guarded the original of that document with our lives.

We never had to pay any VAT while we were cruising because we had a stack of paperwork about 4 inches (10 cm) high. We did have to pay a yearly French boat fee (PAIEMENT DU DROIT ANNUEL DE NAVIGATION) of 643 euros, based on the length and power of the boat engine. We also received a "Passport du Navire Etranger" that we had to show every time we were stopped, but it was returned to the Douane (by certified mail) when we shipped the boat back to the US.

Every time we were boarded, they asked us for these documents and our residency cards and our passports. They never did a safety inspection, and one of the captains of the boarding crews explained that they were not allowed to do so, because we were US-flagged. However, they did do internal checks. The first time, when the boat arrived in Bordeaux, they looked thru all the lockers and personal possessions of the crew, probably for drugs. One other time, they sent one of the inspectors down to look, and he saw our large red Maine coon cat inside, and decided that it was too dangerous, The cat was a real sweetie, but he was very effective in scaring away customs inspectors and burglars (in Nassau). One other French boarding captain commented to his mates that our papers were an example of how it was possible to properly import a boat for use in the EU. He was impressed.

While we lived in France, I found out that I have been an Italian citizen, by blood, all my life, but I was not able to secure an Italian passport while we lived in France because the Italian consulate did not consider us to be residents because we did not have permanent residency cards - only temporary ones. According to the Italian govt, we were homeless. I had to wait till we moved back to the US to be able to get the consulate here in Miami to accept my application for recognition, and now I have an Italian passport.

So now, as an Italian citizen, I have the right to live, work, and travel anywhere in the EU (not just Schengenland), but I do not know what would happen if we moved there with the boat. I don't want to be resident in Italy, because that would subject me to Italian income taxes on my pension and SS (The tax treaties with the US are different in different countries - not EU-wide). I think I could bring the boat over tax free, if I established residence somewhere, but I am getting too old to figure it out anew.

And, as a final note, when we left in 2013, they were starting to scan passports at both the entry and exit of the EU, to match them up to figure out whether people were overstaying the 90 day limit. So, by now it should be very important to make sure that you document your travels if you don't have the right to stay - they can levy a fine on the spot for infractions.

In any case, enjoy your sailing in the EU. Scotland and Ireland are amazing places, and France is one big amusement park for adults.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rxcsailnet

One last item.

We are American citizens, and we wanted to be residents in France. We did not pay VAT or import tax (two different things, totaling about 33% of the value of the boat, whatever that is determined to be) on the boat when we imported it as part of our household goods shipment. The boat arrived separately from the two containers (I sailed it over). But the paperwork was linked together, because the EU allows separate shipments, in one year. You have to get a visa for a change of residence before you leave the US. We used a specialist importer to handle both the household goods and the boat, and received a special piece of paper documenting the tax-free importation. We guarded the original of that document with our lives.

We never had to pay any VAT while we were cruising because we had a stack of paperwork about 4 inches (10 cm) high. We did have to pay a yearly French boat fee (PAIEMENT DU DROIT ANNUEL DE NAVIGATION) of 643 euros, based on the length and power of the boat engine. We also received a "Passport du Navire Etranger" that we had to show every time we were stopped, but it was returned to the Douane (by certified mail) when we shipped the boat back to the US.

Every time we were boarded, they asked us for these documents and our residency cards and our passports. They never did a safety inspection, and one of the captains of the boarding crews explained that they were not allowed to do so, because we were US-flagged. However, they did do internal checks. The first time, when the boat arrived in Bordeaux, they looked thru all the lockers and personal possessions of the crew, probably for drugs. One other time, they sent one of the inspectors down to look, and he saw our large red Maine coon cat inside, and decided that it was too dangerous, The cat was a real sweetie, but he was very effective in scaring away customs inspectors and burglars (in Nassau). One other French boarding captain commented to his mates that our papers were an example of how it was possible to properly import a boat for use in the EU. He was impressed.

While we lived in France, I found out that I have been an Italian citizen, by blood, all my life, but I was not able to secure an Italian passport while we lived in France because the Italian consulate did not consider us to be residents because we did not have permanent residency cards - only temporary ones. According to the Italian govt, we were homeless. I had to wait till we moved back to the US to be able to get the consulate here in Miami to accept my application for recognition, and now I have an Italian passport.

So now, as an Italian citizen, I have the right to live, work, and travel anywhere in the EU (not just Schengenland), but I do not know what would happen if we moved there with the boat. I don't want to be resident in Italy, because that would subject me to Italian income taxes on my pension and SS (The tax treaties with the US are different in different countries - not EU-wide). I think I could bring the boat over tax free, if I established residence somewhere, but I am getting too old to figure it out anew.

And, as a final note, when we left in 2013, they were starting to scan passports at both the entry and exit of the EU, to match them up to figure out whether people were overstaying the 90 day limit. So, by now it should be very important to make sure that you document your travels if you don't have the right to stay - they can levy a fine on the spot for infractions.

In any case, enjoy your sailing in the EU. Scotland and Ireland are amazing places, and France is one big amusement park for adults.

Some things to consider:


1. You generally have the right to import household goods free of VAT and import taxes, when you are moving house as a resident to Europe. Implementation and rules on this may vary from country to country, but check it out. Once you've done this, the boat is imported and is deemed VAT paid and you should have no further difficulties.


2. As an EU citizen, you have the right to live anywhere in the EU, so you are not limited to Italy.



3. Northern Europe is far less bureaucratic and far more cruiser-friendly than the Latin countries. There are no annual taxes, no special documents, and very few checks on cruising boats flagged in the UK, Holland, or any of the Scandinavian countries. Maybe Germany; need to check that. If you spend less than 180 days a year under most conditions you will not be subject to taxation on your U.S. income, in those countries. Southern Europe is very difficult.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Some things to consider:


1. You generally have the right to import household goods free of VAT and import taxes, when you are moving house as a resident to Europe. Implementation and rules on this may vary from country to country, but check it out. Once you've done this, the boat is imported and is deemed VAT paid and you should have no further difficulties.


2. As an EU citizen, you have the right to live anywhere in the EU, so you are not limited


3. Northern Europe is far less bureaucratic and far more cruiser-friendly than the Latin countries. There are no annual taxes, no special documents, and very few checks on cruising boats flagged in the UK, Holland, or any of the Scandinavian countries. Maybe Germany; need to check that. If you spend less than 180 days a year under most conditions you will not be subject to taxation on your U.S. income, in those countries. Southern Europe is very difficult.

Don’t know Northern Europe

Spain taxes residents on worldwide income . In addition Spain has a wealth tax...varies by region ...+- 2 percent Per year on the value of all your assets.
the tax Rules are complex, deductions etc ..speak to an accountant for clarification

As far as I know a Spanish tax resident can not sail a non vat paid boat

A long stay , non lucrative ..no work..visa is a residency permit

As a resident of the Eu country that issued this permit, Spain for instance , you are free to travel in the Schengen zone ..but you cannot live in another Shengain Eu country

If you decide to live in another Eu country, your Spanish residency becomes void and you must apply for a residence permit in the Eu country you wish to stay in

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by slug

Don’t know Northern Europe

Spain taxes residents on worldwide income . In addition Spain has a wealth tax...varies by region ...+- 2 percent Per year on the value of all your assets.
the tax Rules are complex, deductions etc ..speak to an accountant for clarification

As far as I know a Spanish tax resident can not sail a non vat paid boat

A long stay , non lucrative ..no work..visa is a residency permit

As a resident of the Eu country that issued this permit, Spain for instance , you are free to travel in the Schengen zone ..but you cannot live in another Shengain Eu country

If you decide to live in another Eu country, your Spanish residency becomes void and you must apply for a residence permit in the Eu country you wish to stay in

That all sounds right to me. 2% wealth tax!! Why do all those Brits live in Spain? That is insane.



None of the Nordic countries has any wealth tax except Norway, and in fact only 3 European countries have wealth taxes nowadays -- Spain, Switzerland, Norway.