Registration and Insurance - American buying boat in EU

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sure if it's secondhand the vat somewhat irelevant as it's depreciated out anyway


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It's still 20-25% of the purchase price. On a modest $50k boat that is $10-13k. Jump up to a $250k boat and you are looking at $50-60k. Definitely not irrelevant.

[CAPTAINRONBVI]

MY HUMBLE APOLOGIES TO ALL. I FAILED TO MENTION THAT THE TRANSOM ARCH, PROP AND ALL OTHER ITEMS WERE SHIPPED TO MONTENEGRO WHICH SITS NICELY BETWEEN CROATIA, GREECE AND ITALY. THE NAME OF MY SHIPPING AGENT THERE IS SASA KOVLALENKO, AT PLAYMAKER LLA

IN CROATIA, YOU CAN BUY E U GOODS AND HAVE THE SHOP KEEPERS COMPLETE A VAT REFUND FORM. UPON LEAVING CROATIA, THESE FORMS MUST BE PRESENTED TO BE STAMPED. ONCE DONE, THEY ARE RETURNED TO THE MERCHANT WHO CAN SEND YOU A REFUND CHECK. IN MY CASE, I HAVE A CROATIAN BANK ACCOUNT AND GAVE ALL THE FORMS TO A FRIEND OF MINE THERE TO GO TO THE MERCHANTS, RECEIVE THE REFUNDS AND DEPOSIT IN MY ACCOUNT. I TOLD HIM TO TAKE A SMALL COMMISSION FOR HIS ASSISTANCE. OTHER WISE, YOU HAVE UP TO 90 DAYS FROM THE DATE THE ITEMS HAVE BEEN PURCHASED TO DEAL WITH THIS THROUGH THE MAIL.

I WOULD NOT COUNT ON ANY E U COUNTRY BEING NICE AND TREAT THE VESSEL AS COMMERCIAL. BEST TO SET UP A U S COMPANY OF SOME KIND (EVEN IF IT NEVER TAKES IN ANY REVENUE). THIS ONLY MAKES SENSE IF YOU EXPECT TO PURCHASE A LOT OF GOODS OR EXPECT BIG REPAIRS.

GOOD LUCK

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINRONBVI

MY HUMBLE APOLOGIES TO ALL. I FAILED TO MENTION THAT THE TRANSOM ARCH, PROP AND ALL OTHER ITEMS WERE SHIPPED TO MONTENEGRO WHICH SITS NICELY BETWEEN CROATIA, GREECE AND ITALY. THE NAME OF MY SHIPPING AGENT THERE IS SASA KOVLALENKO, AT PLAYMAKER LLA

IN CROATIA, YOU CAN BUY E U GOODS AND HAVE THE SHOP KEEPERS COMPLETE A VAT REFUND FORM. UPON LEAVING CROATIA, THESE FORMS MUST BE PRESENTED TO BE STAMPED. ONCE DONE, THEY ARE RETURNED TO THE MERCHANT WHO CAN SEND YOU A REFUND CHECK. IN MY CASE, I HAVE A CROATIAN BANK ACCOUNT AND GAVE ALL THE FORMS TO A FRIEND OF MINE THERE TO GO TO THE MERCHANTS, RECEIVE THE REFUNDS AND DEPOSIT IN MY ACCOUNT. I TOLD HIM TO TAKE A SMALL COMMISSION FOR HIS ASSISTANCE. OTHER WISE, YOU HAVE UP TO 90 DAYS FROM THE DATE THE ITEMS HAVE BEEN PURCHASED TO DEAL WITH THIS THROUGH THE MAIL.

I WOULD NOT COUNT ON ANY E U COUNTRY BEING NICE AND TREAT THE VESSEL AS COMMERCIAL. BEST TO SET UP A U S COMPANY OF SOME KIND (EVEN IF IT NEVER TAKES IN ANY REVENUE). THIS ONLY MAKES SENSE IF YOU EXPECT TO PURCHASE A LOT OF GOODS OR EXPECT BIG REPAIRS.

GOOD LUCK

One of my goals in buying in the EU is to get a VAT paid boat so I don't have to play games with getting the boat out of the EU and having that drive the schedule.

While I'm sure repairs will come up, I'm not looking for a fixer upper. Also, I am looking at the lower end of the price spectrum where the cost of setting up and maintaining a business is going to be more hassle than it's worth.

For reference, we have been cruising on our Gemini for the last 7yrs in the USA. We are very comfortable on her and like the layout for long term cruising. We were planning to ship her (got quotes for $10-15k each way).

With the recent drop in the Euro, we have found used Catalacs (which have a lot of similarities) for $20-40k. We've looked at a couple preliminarily and while not pristine, they do appear to be in good working order with no major retrofit required.

For the cost we were looking at for shipping, we can buy a boat in the EU and avoid the hassles with shipping, temporary import/vat and it's set up for EU power. The biggest stumbling block at the moment is we have to sell our Gemini as we don't want the care and feeding of two boats at the same time.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's still 20-25% of the purchase price. On a modest $50k boat that is $10-13k. Jump up to a $250k boat and you are looking at $50-60k. Definitely not irrelevant.

Not really since most boats (France and Italy) are bought through leasing and they get VAT paid in the end while paying less 10% of VAT, so in the end the difference is much smaller then 20%, less then half of it.

Besides it worth to remember that typically you can only find two types of boats without VAT paid: Charter boats and boast used for extensive racing (with a sponsor) and in both cases you may have disadvantages versus a slightly sailed very well maintain owner's boat that with the same age can be in much better condition.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Polux

Not really since most boats (France and Italy) are bought through leasing and they get VAT paid in the end while paying less 10% of VAT, so in the end the difference is much smaller then 20%, less then half of it.

Besides it worth to remember that typically you can only find two types of boats without VAT paid: Charter boats and boast used for extensive racing (with a sponsor) and in both cases you may have disadvantages versus a slightly sailed very well maintain owner's boat that with the same age can be in much better condition.

Not sure how I pay only around 10% VAT if I'm not leasing or running a charter but I think we are getting sidetracked onto a side issue. If I buy a VAT paid boat, this is all irrelevant.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Not sure how I pay only around 10% VAT if I'm not leasing or running a charter but I think we are getting sidetracked onto a side issue. If I buy a VAT paid boat, this is all irrelevant.

That was not what I meant. What I said is that in some EC countries regarding used boats the difference in value between a boat with a VAT paid and another one without Vat paid should not be the 20 to 25% you mentioned because to most owners that difference is only of about 10% regarding buying a new boat with VAT paid (not 20 or 25%) since almost all new boats in France, Italy and some other countries are bought in leasing with a VAT inferior to 10%. If you pay the boat without leasing you pay VAT from 19 to 23% depending on the country.

In France or Italy if someone wants to pay a boat fully in cash the price will be superior if he buys the boat over 4 years with 40% entry using leasing.