Schengen and bilateral agreements - includes Aust, NZ, Canada, US etc

[longtermcruiser]

Agree with dockhead about schengen.
However, if your boat is not VAT paid, you will be opening yourself up for VAT since Portugal requires you to be resident for 183 days a year. This could snag you in any country if a customs officer notes the resudence issue. I think that there might also be some limits on how many times you leave Portugal in firstyear.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by longtermcruiser

Agree with dockhead about schengen.
However, if your boat is not VAT paid, you will be opening yourself up for VAT since Portugal requires you to be resident for 183 days a year. This could snag you in any country if a customs officer notes the resudence issue. I think that there might also be some limits on how many times you leave Portugal in firstyear.

That's a good point.


If you are a European tax resident, you can't be using a non-VAT paid boat even for a day in European waters.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Lisa Longshadow

If I have a Portuguese Retirement Visa, can I travel to other Schengen countries w/o the 90/180 restrictions?

For example, if I enter Portugal to start my initial Retirement Visa 1st year clock (and then planning to renew it twice, each time for two years, to a maximum of five years)...can I travel to France for 90 days, and then to Spain for 90 days, and then to Finland for 90 days, etc, etc,etc?

I hope that question is clear:-)

Legally you can stay for as long as you want in Portugal where you are resident but you are still restricted to the 90/180 in all other Schengen countries but tracking you can be a bit difficult since they don't know when you enter or leave Portugal.

Do think seriously about VAT unless your boat is VAT paid or exempt.

[Lisa Longshadow]

Friends,

Good points!!! Thanks.

~L

[goeasy123]

Under IMO rules 3rd country sailors on 3rd country boats can stay in the Med facing EU waters indefinitely without using up Schengen days. Malta do it as a matter of course (see Noonsite>Malta>Formalities). Greece is relatively easy, but needs a qualifying agent. For Spain, Italy and France you have to ask and there's a bit of a process.

[Lisa Longshadow]

Friends, I saw this posted a while ago and was curious of the accuracy:

"For people from NZ and US, an excellent update: days spent elsewhere in Scandinavia no are no longer deducted! One should be able to do 90 days Schengen, 90 days Norway/Sweden (combined), and 90 days Denmark, for a grand total 270 days before having to sail directly to Ireland, UK or Russia. Small new downside: any days spent in Denmark itself in the previous six months are now deducted. A big net win."

Is this accurate information?

~Lisa

[longtermcruiser]

Hi Lisa,
Don't think it's that simple. We have old emails from Norway and Sweden verifying the 90 days for Nordic countries combined (sorry i don't hage a copy for you). BUT, i did recently see this

https://www.swedenabroad.se/en/about-abroad-for-swedish-citizens/usa/visa-information2/visa-exemption-agreement-swedenusa/

It verifies the Nordic issue

[MacLovin]

So, I have a French Visa for 1y.
Can I go into the Schengen (Greece) and then 'escape' back to france for 90 days to reset my schengen?

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by MacLovin

So, I have a French Visa for 1y.
Can I go into the Schengen (Greece) and then 'escape' back to france for 90 days to reset my schengen?

During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

[MacLovin]

Originally Posted by Montanan

During its period of validity, the long-stay visa is equivalent to a Schengen visa, enabling you to move around and stay in the Schengen Area outside France for periods not exceeding 90 days over any period of 180 consecutive days, under the same conditions as if you held a Schengen visa.

Can you clarify? Does being in France for 90 days "reset" my Schengen?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by MacLovin

Can you clarify? Does being in France for 90 days "reset" my Schengen?

It's measured on a rolling basis. So you are in violation if on any day you have been in non-France Schengen countries for more than 90 days out of the last 180. There's no "resetting". You just need to be spending more than half your time in France on a rolling basis.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It's measured on a rolling basis. So you are in violation if on any day you have been in non-France Schengen countries for more than 90 days out of the last 180. There's no "resetting". You just need to be spending more than half your time in France on a rolling basis.

[MacLovin]

So, I looked more into this.
Lets say I go to Germany for 89 days.
I have one day left in the Schengen zone before I am in violation.
As I have a year French visa, I can head over to France.
This does NOT take me out of the schengen zone. I still count my last day of schengen while in France. However, I won't be in violation, as I have a French visa and I'll be staying in France.

I may run into trouble if I leave France for another Schengen country., however I could probably get a visa for the Netherlands as there is a bilateral agreement between there and Canada.

I believe I have this right now.

[MacLovin]

Originally Posted by MacLovin

So, I looked more into this.
Lets say I go to Germany for 89 days.
I have one day left in the Schengen zone before I am in violation.
As I have a year French visa, I can head over to France.
This does NOT take me out of the schengen zone. I still count my last day of schengen while in France. However, I won't be in violation, as I have a French visa and I'll be staying in France.

I may run into trouble if I leave France for another Schengen country., however I could probably get a visa for the Netherlands as there is a bilateral agreement between there and Canada.

I believe I have this right now.

And I was completely wrong.
"the periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of short-stay on the territory of the Schengen Member States"

I don't believe this applies to short-stay bilateral agreements though.

[Montanan]

Don't complicate the issue.

The Schengen visa is a short stay visa, 90 days in any 180 day rolling period and will apply to all days you leave France and are in any Schengen territory outside of France.

When you are in France you visitation is under the terms of your long stay visa issued by France.

Do not mix the subjects and the countries.