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SaylorMade · 10-05-2023, 14:34

So, a short update, and some housekeeping

Housekeeping first:
I am not the moderator of this thread, and I have myself indulged in further discussion of the viability of EP, but let's keep that in the original thread.

Update:
Old engine bay is cleaned out, and the old 12v system is sorted for re-assembly.

Friday the 12th is the day of installing the new engine, and I will post pictures.
If that goes well, I expect to pick up the battery early next week.
Splash will then happen middle of next week if crane agrees.

Let me know if there are any specific things I should document in that process, before I start posting actual consumption/range figures.

I am mostly stressed out about the splash, and hopefully no leaks around the steel plate and motor mounts into the hull.

MicHughV · 10-05-2023, 15:48

My very first boat had a Volvo Penta MD7B. It was a heavy beast for sure and had numerous issues which spelt it's early removal and replacement.
In you situation, I'm wondering if another diesel from a different maker would have made more sense ?
Kinda moot observation at this point of your install, but I was wonder about things like resale value, etc.

mcarthur · 11-05-2023, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorxyz

... I also still need to either get the anchor winch motor rewound or get a 48v motor from Maxwell. Rewinding likely will be cheaper.

I never thought of rewinding the existing winch motor! Great idea, although I assume it won't be cheap either? Mine is a Lofrans Falkon 1500W (not the more modern 1700W). If you get that done, could you let here/me know the method and costs?

SaylorMade · 12-05-2023, 08:02

So today was installation day.
Boat-guy arrived at 10.00 a.m. and drove off at 12.00 a.m.

Next week I aquire the battery and if everything goes smooth it should be in the water some time next week.

Pictures attached.

Matt Johnson · 12-05-2023, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

So today was installation day.

Boat-guy arrived at 10.00 a.m. and drove off at 12.00 a.m.

Next week I aquire the battery and if everything goes smooth it should be in the water some time next week.

Pictures attached.

Quickest boat project ever! Good job [emoji106]

Statistical · 12-05-2023, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

So today was installation day.
Boat-guy arrived at 10.00 a.m. and drove off at 12.00 a.m.

Next week I aquire the battery and if everything goes smooth it should be in the water some time next week.

Pictures attached.

Curious is there an interior motor controller box? Not talking the throttle/display but whatever the battery is wired into.

Once minor pro for electric is that installing and removing an electric motor doesn't require a forklift or crane.

SaylorMade · 12-05-2023, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Statistical

Curious is there an interior motor controller box? Not talking the throttle/display but whatever the battery is wired into.

Once minor pro for electric is that installing and removing an electric motor doesn't require a forklift or crane.

There used to be an external controller, but in the new series, the controller is a part of the pylon (under water), so only 3 wires up into the boat, directly to the battery (via breaker/switch) and a thin cable to the throttle contoller.

So very tidy inside the boat, plus the controller will be kept cool by the sea water.

**s/v Jedi** · 12-05-2023, 12:01

Which motor is this? Do you have specs? Do you have links to more info?

SaylorMade · 12-05-2023, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Which motor is this? Do you have specs? Do you have links to more info?

Sure, should be in the first post, but I went with the Torqeedo for several reasons.

This is the one (but with a Flexofold propeller)

https://www.torqeedo.com/en/products...M-1269-00.html

Should be around 9 HP. I am confident it will be plenty of power for our use.

**Pete7** · 12-05-2023, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by PineyWoodsPete

Well, I'm coming from the perspective of a 33'/32' WL 5-ton hybrid MV, with a semi-displacement hull,

Well, there will be a huge difference between SD hull and a very slippery yacht travelling slowly and no where near hull speed in flat conditions, hence the need for the electric motor rather than sails.

But even if the numbers are a little high, no one is going to start on a 50m voyage in flat calm conditions. However, add 10 knots of wind still giving flat calm water but useful input from the sails, then reducing back the throttle may give a really good range.

Pete

SaylorMade · 12-05-2023, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

But even if the numbers are a little high, no one is going to start on a 50m voyage in flat calm conditions.
Pete

Well, we have, once or twice.
We were on vacation and needed go get back to home port during a calm night.
Actually it was this situation that made me size the battery at 12 KWh

**s/v Jedi** · 12-05-2023, 13:54

In a 10kts wind you must be able to sail without use of an engine. Something is wrong otherwise.

We do 4 kts STW on a broad reach with 10kts wind and much more on a beam reach or with the wind even more forward.

GrowleyMonster · 13-05-2023, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordMay

You're right, I was thinking of ‘ordinary synchronous motors’, as that is where my application experience was (@ Westinghouse), forty years ago.
I have little knowledge of EV/EBoat motors, so I'd welcome evidence (or explanation) supporting the claim that a motor twice the size of another, is just as efficient.

I believe (perhaps wrongly) that significantly underloading any electric motor will result in reduced efficiency; but, I'm willing to be educated.

A motor designed to about 75% of maximum expected load will remain quite efficient, and still retain considerable ‘over load’ (emergency) capacity.

The Torqeedo Cruise 6.0 FP TorqLink uses a Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor (PMSM [1]), as do most automakers [2], on their Evs.

Torqeedo describes their motors as: brushless (rare-earth permanent magnets) , electronically commutated, synchronous motors, with external rotors (stator and the coils located on the inside).
➥ https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us/te...ic-motors.html

See “Electric Motor Selection for Underwater Vehicles: Considerations of partial load efficiency”
for an explanation of why
“... Partial power loading is the big issue for most applications, as running a motor at low power can cause a significant drop in motor efficiency [from 90%+ a nearly full load, to 75% at fractional loading) ...”
Here ➥ https://www.hydrocompinc.com/wp-cont...r-vehicles.pdf

[1] There are two driving methods for permanent magnet motors: square wave and sine wave, these are referred to as permanent magnet brushless DC motor (BLDCM), and permanent magnet synchronous motor (PMSM), respectively.

[2] The majority of auto manufacturers (ie: Toyota Prius, Chevrolet Bolt EV, Ford Focus Electric, zero motorcycles S/SR, Nissan Leaf, Hinda Accord, BMW i3) use Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motors (PMSM) motors, for their electric and hybrid vehicles.
However, the Tesla Model S and Model X used an AC Induction motor. The Model 3 uses a Switched Reluctance Motor (SRM) with internal permanent magnets in the stator, called an internal permanent magnet switched reluctance motor (IPM-SRM). Dual-motor versions were also introduced by Tesla—the Model 3 uses an IM in the front and an IPM-SRM in the back. It is the opposite case for the Model S and Model X.

I can't really give you any "evidence", as I no longer have the data and I could write down anything I want anyway, but I can tell you that at equal RPM, when testing, I observed the two motors would draw about the same current. Tach was driven by a hall effect sensor and magnet, digitally displayed. No guessing. Ammeter was a shunt digital 100a meter. There was no significant difference in current at a given RPM. This was whether I was running a square wave or a sine wave controller. 48v system. Originally I used a 300A (peak) 48v Kelly controller. Later I upgraded to a 500A (peak) sine wave controller that could operate at up to 96v. I wanted the option of being able to double my bank size some day, but I never did. With either controller, the current draw for a given RPM was essentially the same from one motor to the other. Naturally the sine wave controller was slightly more efficient and it made both motors run noticeably quieter. I did not observe or record motor temperatures. I can't make you believe me, all I can do is tell you what I observed with my own system and I won't argue about it. Feel free to say it isn't so. I'm moving on.