Conversion project - documented

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Oops I had a typo "long" should have been "low". As in how slow can you go and maintain steerage which you answered. I imagine docking is a lot nicer (and quieter) with electric.

Sure is, when I took off this morning I had a new neighbour (visitors), and when I was out of the slip and about to head out, he ran to the bow and almost yelled: "Do you have electric?!?"
He probably expected more noise and smoke

But I have to remember when it is in idle (off) that it will eventually loose steering and I have to put in power. But yeah, just a matter of using a very low setting when approaching.

As said earlier Torqeedo has obviously programmed a very soft start, so it is not much more responsive. It could be more, but I get the idea to spare the equipment so I think it is a good choice by them.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Oops I had a typo "long" should have been "low". As in how slow can you go and maintain steerage which you answered. I imagine docking is a lot nicer (and quieter) with electric.

Take it from me. Docking with electric is sweeeeeeeeeet. Maneuvering is where it truly shines. Instant power. Instant torque. and most importantly, no need to bump in and out of gear because there is essentially no minimum idle speed. You can back into a slip under power, if you get some sternway on first and stabilize the boat, and be able to steer, at least a little, and track straight in, at 50 to 75 RPM. Of course it is still way easier to steer the stern to port and almost impossible to steer to starboard without stopping the motor entirely, but way better than an ICE with minimum 700 RPM.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

Sure is, when I took off this morning I had a new neighbour (visitors), and when I was out of the slip and about to head out, he ran to the bow and almost yelled: "Do you have electric?!?"
He probably expected more noise and smoke

But I have to remember when it is in idle (off) that it will eventually loose steering and I have to put in power. But yeah, just a matter of using a very low setting when approaching.

As said earlier Torqeedo has obviously programmed a very soft start, so it is not much more responsive. It could be more, but I get the idea to spare the equipment so I think it is a good choice by them.

Ah. My homebrew EP system did not have any torque limiting but apparently Torqueedo does. Not a bad thing, just something to be aware of.

[SaylorMade]

A little update:

I've been out a few times now, and I am becomming increasingly happy with the whole setup.

My range-anxitey is decreasing so much, that I have now stopped recharging the battery to 100% after each sail (which is another great feature of LFP).

Last weekend it sat at 94%, and then we went out for the weekend.
Saturday we used the engine just a little, but on sunday we sailed some miles on engine, before the wind picked up.
On wednesday I went for another sail and had to motor for 3 nm initially, and then in the end I also used the motor for a little while against the wind, where I gave it some Watts to maintain 5+ (around 3.5 KW).

It now sits at 82%

On the part wednesday morning I only kept it around 3 knots though. It was such a beautiful morning, and it is almost magic to glide silently through the water, so no need to go faster.

Next weekend summer holiday start, so hopefully we will get a day or two where we can really exercise that battery for you guys.

I am starting to understand why many e-converts stop posting these figures shortly after their install. It is simply not a problem.

But I will keep posting, especially as we get more towards the edge of the range.

[SaylorMade]

Today the new cover for the hole of the old engine panel arrived.
And it is now assembled with a dual temperature monitor (sensors gonna be in the engine compartment somewhere), and a switch to start cross feed charge from the 48V bank to the house battery.

Bought a Victron DC-DC charger for that, with a remote control feature. (Just an open/close circuit). Don't plan on using it, just there for an "emergency" situation.

[SaylorMade]

Today was the first day where I motored the whole way home from another harbour.
Quite precisely 10 nm in complete calm.

I tried to keep the boat speed at 5 knots during the whole trip, and at the end I was left with 68 percent remaining capacity.

I was quite surprised, since that would have given me about 30 nm at 5 kts, which means around 60 nm at 4 knots. My calculated estimates were only around 20 nm at 5 knots, so that's great.

I am a very happy electrified sailor :-)

I have included a link to my route, and there are pictures for you guys too

See the trip and pictures here

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

Today was the first day where I motored the whole way home from another harbour.
Quite precisely 10 nm in complete calm.

I tried to keep the boat speed at 5 knots during the whole trip, and at the end I was left with 68 percent remaining capacity.

I was quite surprised, since that would have given me about 30 nm at 5 kts, which means around 60 nm at 4 knots. My calculated estimates were only around 20 nm at 5 knots, so that's great.

I am a very happy electrified sailor :-)

I have included a link to my route, and there are pictures for you guys too

See the trip and pictures here

I hear crickets instead of naysayers hahaha

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I hear crickets instead of naysayers hahaha

It is a little bit funny though that on this longer distance (I know it's not LONG long), the consumption came out better than expected when just extrapolating the shorter tests I made at different power settings.

I checked the BMS on the app after I came home and it also said exactly the same 68 percent remaining as the the Torqeedo display had calculated.

I can't quite figure out why, I am very certain that there was zero current out there today. (Very rarely any current in this particular stretch of water).

But maybe it is just a matter of the water being completely calm out there today.

[sailingharry]

I have told you this before, and here again. You are the poster child for the ideal use-case for EP.
* Tied to a pier 100% of the time -- even most of the time when you are out overnight. No pretending that you'll get all your charging from solar or regen. No having to pay for a marina just because you need the juice.

* Hard distance limits of 20NM from home. No hoping that 40 mile weekend destination doesn't become a 10 hour motor home with fingers crossed.

* The distance limit reduces the need do those 4kt long distance runs, and even allows 6kt runs. You could have shortened that 2 hour run by 20 minutes and still not been in trouble. No constant concern about range, and reducing speed accordingly.



Your use case is a no-compromises conversion to EP. You get all the benefits of EP without giving up a single benefit of diesel. So many other use cases require the going in assumption that there will be compromises. This is how to knock it out of the park!

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I have told you this before, and here again. You are the poster child for the ideal use-case for EP.
* Tied to a pier 100% of the time -- even most of the time when you are out overnight. No pretending that you'll get all your charging from solar or regen. No having to pay for a marina just because you need the juice.

* Hard distance limits of 20NM from home. No hoping that 40 mile weekend destination doesn't become a 10 hour motor home with fingers crossed.

* The distance limit reduces the need do those 4kt long distance runs, and even allows 6kt runs. You could have shortened that 2 hour run by 20 minutes and still not been in trouble. No constant concern about range, and reducing speed accordingly.



Your use case is a no-compromises conversion to EP. You get all the benefits of EP without giving up a single benefit of diesel. So many other use cases require the going in assumption that there will be compromises. This is how to knock it out of the park!

True.
Where I sail, 90+ percent of boats have the same pattern as I have.
Always in a marina at night, and rarely need to motor for long distances.
And even so, range is just a matter of adding more battery, since charging is a non-issue here.

[SaylorMade]

So it has now been a full year with the system, and I would just post a follow-up. Many people that wrote quite detailed installation threads, seem to disappear after a while, so I always wondered if it was because they converted back to a diesel. But now I think I know why. EP is so simple and reliable that after a while you just forget about it.

My thoughts after a year:

Performance
Performance is great. More than enough power, equal to the old 17 HK diesel, but better for tight manouvering, due to the torque.
But I do suspect that Torqeedo has made it very soft-start to protect the mechanical parts.
I have not been at WOT, but I have been at the topspeed with the old engine i.e. 6,5 kts.
In the end of the season, performance had degraded some, due to fouling on the prop, but it also did that with the diesel.

Range
The range came out exactly as predicted, i.e. around 50 nm @ 4 kts, which was the design goal. Actual numbers (and even graphs) can be found earlier in the thread.
In the beginning I had range anxiety, constantly looking at the display. But it went away. It is simply not an issue.
Also the precision of the SoC, and remaning range in the display is spectacular. I have a battery bank with a Bluetooth BMS, so I can compare the numbers.
And they agree during the whole discharge curve within 1-2 percent.

Charging
Charger is 25 A @ 48V and with LFP, it just pumps in 25A from the start until almost full.
It pulls around 1,5 kW which is fine in any marina we have visited, and on most days it just runs a few minutes maybe half an hour.
In most of the marinas we visit here, power has to be paid for anyway (not metered), so essentially we use the motor for free.
In our own marina it is metered but the kWh price is very reasonable (close to actual price).

Battery bank
The 12 kWh LFP bank is fantastic.
It now has almost 2 full cycles under it's belt, so it should last another 1,000 years
In the fall I left it with the BMS shut off at around 80% SoC. It woke back up in spring with around 80% SoC and a max cell voltage difference of 0,003 volt

Other benefits:
The boat floats a bit higher at the back now, which is perfect with two adults in the cockpit.

No smells and heat after hours of motoring
No maintenance of pumps, oil, thermostats, belts, generators, valves, hoses, thruhulls etc. etc. etc.

It still turns heads and puzzled looks in the harbour. People are still not used to the combination of a moving boat and silence.

My biggest regret is that I didn't do it 5 years ago. (Well not really - I think the time was perfect with the development in pod motors and LFP batteries)

[PineyWoodsPete]

This ancient mariner pessimist is glad to hear all has worked as planned and that the Torquedo specs were perfect for your boat. Congratulations!

But the one thing I can't believe is that you haven't yet tried a 100% 6kW runup - not just out of curiosity, but to stress the system to the max in a safe situation before you might actually need it in "tough chance" conditions.

My concern is that all the thrust of the diesel/saildrive unit was taken by its rigid connection to the engine, where as I understand it, the through-hull connection was basically a semi-flexible sealed point, with the engine weight/mounts absorbing the 90 deg./ ~2 foot lever-arm thrust load, which is now taken by the Torquedo mount plate only.

I would want to take a close look at that plate under max. thrust to see if it or the surrounding hull flexes or otherwise deforms.

Pete

[GILow]

Originally Posted by SaylorMade

… People are still not used to the combination of a moving boat and silence.

Well, those of us that sail are not too surprised, but I understand your point.

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by PineyWoodsPete

This ancient mariner pessimist is glad to hear all has worked as planned and that the Torquedo specs were perfect for your boat. Congratulations!

But the one thing I can't believe is that you haven't yet tried a 100% 6kW runup - not just out of curiosity, but to stress the system to the max in a safe situation before you might actually need it in "tough chance" conditions.

My concern is that all the thrust of the diesel/saildrive unit was taken by its rigid connection to the engine, where as I understand it, the through-hull connection was basically a semi-flexible sealed point, with the engine weight/mounts absorbing the 90 deg./ ~2 foot lever-arm thrust load, which is now taken by the Torquedo mount plate only.

I would want to take a close look at that plate under max. thrust to see if it or the surrounding hull flexes or otherwise deforms.

Pete

Thank you Pete

I might do that at some point, but I am not overly concerned. It is a very solid glassed in ring with a metal ring inside, and the method has been used in many installations already. The load on the plate is transferred over quite a large area (friction).

I visually inspect the whole assembly from time to time.

[Bullshooter]

Great info SaylorMade, thank you for sharing.

And congratulations for a very good conversion and result!