Conversion project - documented

[SaylorMade]

So a while back I made a thread, inviting members to change my mind on shifting to electric propulsion.
Well that didn't work, so now the project has begun.
The thread can be found here:The change my mind thread

I will document the project in this new thread, in the hope that other may benefit from the experiences that lie ahead.

So first a few facts:

Boat is a Nordship 808, 27 feet sailboat from 1984.
Official weight is 2,6 tons, but is probably more around 3,5 in reality.

Current engine is the original Volvo Penta MD7B (17 HP), but this is odd, because all other Nordship 808 came with an 8 HP Volvo.
We have never used much power, and certainly never max RPM.
At 1600 RPM it pushed the boat with a speed of about 5.3 knots.

I have ordered a new system, consisting of:
A Torqeedo Cruise 6.0 FP Torqlinq
A Flexofold propeller that is designed for the engine
A mounting plate for the existing round hole for the Volvo SailDrive (brilliant)
One extra spacer to ensure sufficient clearance between hull and propeller (when mounted this way)
A 12 KWh LifePo4 battery at 48 volt, made in Denmark (Not the torqeedo batteries - I am not rich...)
I expect the battery to give me a range of 50 nm at 4 knots, when becalmed.

The project consists of the following major steps:
1. Haul the boat (done today)
2. Remove old engine (A team does that during the next days)
3. Clean up the old engine bay
4. Create a plate to hold the battery. I plan to mount it on the old engine mounts
5. Get the installation-plate for new engine sealed and installed in the old saildrive hole (by professional)
6. Mount the pod (professional assistance)
7. Drop the boat back into the drink
8. Lift in the battery using the mast crane
9. Go sailing

I will post pictures from the different steps, and will also make an effort to publish some real-life range and consumption data, when we start using the engine.

Proof that boat is on the hard

[tkeithlu]

Sounds like a great project, SaylorMade.

You don't mention charging. Genset? Solar? What do you do when you've done the 50Mn and have flat batteries?

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

Sounds like a great project, SaylorMade.

You don't mention charging. Genset? Solar? What do you do when you've done the 50Mn and have flat batteries?

Good question.
We never sail that long.
The longest trip on the engine we made was 42 nm, that's why I ended on the 12 KWh battery :-)

99,9 percent of the time, we are at a berth during night, so charging is done with shore power.

I realize that this pattern is different from other places, but here in Denmark, thats how 90 percent sail. (Berth every night).

YMMV (litterally )

[Statistical]

Will be following this. Be curious to see the unexpected stuff that comes up. Looks like useful solution to your needs. Surprised you have no solar on your boat but like you say you are in a berth every night.

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Will be following this. Be curious to see the unexpected stuff that comes up. Looks like useful solution to your needs. Surprised you have no solar on your boat but like you say you are in a berth every night.

Yes, we very rarely do longer trips. Ocassionally a 24h sail, but we would never do that in totally calm conditions.
I do plan on beefing up the 12v system though with a LiFePo4 battery as well, since we can no longer charge that system while underway.

And - hopefully not too much unexpected stuff .... but yeah it's a boat so, there is that

[SaylorMade]

So team engine out (one-man-team) was very efficient today.
Everything is now disconnected, and engine is ready to be lifted out tomorrow.

[Searles]

I for one would be interested in the total cost of this project , including the sale value of the thr Volvo ,I would guess in the real world it would be about double the current value of the vsl if it’s in verry good condition .⛵️⚓️

[SaylorMade]

So, about cost:

The engine with a FlexoFold propeller, conversion plate (for saildrive) and thrust controller with display is around 5,800 USD (including the 25% danish VAT)

The batterypack of 12 KWH LifePo4 including a 25A Charger is around 5,400 USD.

Then comes assistance and craning if you want to include that.

So price the for engine and battery pack is 11,200 USD.

A new diesel with saildrive and flexofold is around 14,000 USD here.

But the yearly maintenance costs will be much lower on the elctric.
The new torqeedos have a service interval of 5 years, and is a quite simple operation.

For me the resale value of the boat has not been a factor. This is the kind of boat I want, and to make the trips comfortable and safe, this is a perfectly fine price for me. The boat is not an investment, but a place to spend the time off work.

If I should entertain that way of thinking, I would guess that it could sell for about 6-7,000 USD more than before the conversion.

Boats of this type (Nordship 808s are quite rare) with a new engine they go for around 18,000 USD (if you can find one with a new engine). With orginal engine or "newish" they sell in the range of 10,000 to 14,500 USD.


I "sold" the Volvo for 0 bucks, in return for the guy doing all the work of dismounting it from the boat. It was a very popular "give-away" with many takers, so I think it could have brought in some money if I had done the removal myself. The engine runs really fine, but there is some work to be done on the sail drive.

Hope this was useful, otherwise just ask, but I am not going further into discussions about wether it is viable from an "investment" perspective, resale value of the boat of this kind etc.

[SaylorMade]

So the old engine is out, and the compartment cleaned up.

Yesterday I picked up the new Torqeedo motor and the steel plate mount.
And when I finished cleaning, I thought I would just check that the plate was the right size, and then I discovered that the plate has more holes in it, than my ring in the boat has bolts

Weird - when I look up clamping rings they seem to all be the same for the 110S, 120S etc, with 5 bolts each side (plus the two at the top), but my mount only has 3 each side.

I've lurked around and found picture people have taken of their saildrives, and some do seem to only have 3 each side like mine....

Can anyone shed som light on this?

I've of course contacted the dealer, but it is after hours now, so I just wanted to throw this out there.

I don't know if its a show-stopper - wadda ya all think?

[Pete7]

Do your bolt holes line up with the holes in the new plate?

What material is the grey base made of and could you add two bolts each side?

Thanks for documenting this, there will be others following in your footsteps for sure.

Pete

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Do your bolt holes line up with the holes in the new plate?

What material is the grey base made of and could you add two bolts each side?

Thanks for documenting this, there will be others following in your footsteps for sure.

Pete

Yes the holes line up, and the shape is right.

Another boat in my club is doing something similar, and they seem to have the same number of holes as I have.

I have attached a picture of their installation.

Seems that there is variable number of bolts, and the plate may just be a one-fits-all. The more I think about the less I think it's a problem.
But the dealer will surely get back to me tomorrow.

NOTE: The picture in this post is NOT my boat, but another 27 foot sailboat doing something similar. They also had a Volvo Saildrive before.

[Statistical]

Yeah my guess is at one time the flange with three bolts was common and later it changed over to five bolts. Good to confirm with the dealer but given there is I presume a solid ring of sealant between the flange and plate I think it will be fine.

[SaylorMade]

The holes line up perfectly, and the dealer has reported back with a "plate fits all models" message, so I will now proceed to cut a seal of rubber.

A question to the kind readers:
The two bolts at the back are longer then the others and I would like to replace them (acutally all of them). But the current bolts are flange-bolts, which I seem to have a hard time locating in my country (in A4).

Does it matter, or can I use normal bolts, and is there any benefit here to add washers?

[sailingharry]

Saylor,

I am a strong critic of most EP conversions. In my opinion, the vast majority go in understating their needs and over estimating the results.

Your case, on the other hand, is a poster child for an appropriate install. Sufficient range (if 50nm is the absolute maximum), dock every night. Another 50% is easy to add later if needed. Because you are docked every night, house battery is no worry. Not counting on regen or solar means you won't be dissatisfied when it doesn't measure up.

I am a strong proponent of not undersizing the motor. A big electric motor run at low percentage of capacity is just as efficient as a small one, with the same range. But the big one gives you the short bursts of high power, such as docking maneuvers in bad wind, or tricky channel entrances.

Sounds like you have really nailed an ideal application for EP. Hope you give us an update after the first season of operation -- we tend to hear lots of optimistic enthusiasm during installs, but little operational follow up.

[SaylorMade]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

Saylor,

I am a strong critic of most EP conversions. In my opinion, the vast majority go in understating their needs and over estimating the results.

Your case, on the other hand, is a poster child for an appropriate install. Sufficient range (if 50nm is the absolute maximum), dock every night. Another 50% is easy to add later if needed. Because you are docked every night, house battery is no worry. Not counting on regen or solar means you won't be dissatisfied when it doesn't measure up.

I am a strong proponent of not undersizing the motor. A big electric motor run at low percentage of capacity is just as efficient as a small one, with the same range. But the big one gives you the short bursts of high power, such as docking maneuvers in bad wind, or tricky channel entrances.

Sounds like you have really nailed an ideal application for EP. Hope you give us an update after the first season of operation -- we tend to hear lots of optimistic enthusiasm during installs, but little operational follow up.

Thank you very much for a response well thought through!
I agree, EP is not for everyone. Where I sail we have perfect conditions (for EP), since all of the waters (except the west coast where there is very little leisure sailing) are protected and with harbours all over.
98 percent are in a marina berth every night with shore power.

If you have to be able to motor for hours on end in adverse conditions I would never have done it.

Motor size I don't know about. The one I am installing is 6 KW = 9,6 HP, which is more than this type of boat originally was fitted with.
But I must say that we have never ever used much of the old diesels actual capacity.
Again it's about the waters you sail in.

The 50 nm range with my battery is based on 4 knots, in calm conditions (where we use an engine) it can be much more if you are willing to go to 3 kts. And bear in mind that at 3 knots it would be a virtually silent nice ride in glass water.

Some say that there is another advantage to EP, if you are sailing upwind in very light conditions, you can assist the boat with just a little bit of power, which is silent, and draws very little power.
I hope this is a real thing, since a Nordship 808 is not super great against the wind (shallow draft).

I will surely update this thread with real numbers, since I also find it hard to find much of that after installation, but hey, maybe those guys are just out there enjoying it all too much to bother with updating