Bahamas to Virgins options?

[Gene Neill]

Our plan is to sell the house and cut the dock lines in the early fall of 2020. We'll probably shake down for a few weeks here in our own cruising grounds on the gulf coast of Florida before crossing the stream to go play in the Bahamas for a while. Then at some point, we hope to make the jump to the Virgins and then to points further south before hurricane season arrives.


I feel almost silly asking this question. It seems like it would have been beaten to death a long time ago, but google has not been my friend in this particular search. I have heard two methods of making the necessary easting to the 65th parallel, and reaching south from there. One involves 700 miles of motoring, and one involves waiting for a norther to provide "favorable" winds for easting.


Our vessel is only 27' LOA, so fuel tankage makes the first method improbable. Our fuel tank holds a whopping nine gallons, so (by my very rough estimate) we would need a minimum of six five-gallon jerrycans to even have a chance in the most benign conditions.


That leaves riding the roller coaster eastward. Presumably depart from Georgetown a day or so before the wind starts clocking around, and hope the front lasts long enough to get us to the 65th.


I would be grateful for any input from those who have been there and done that!

[billknny]

First, the "65 and then south" method does NOT work from a starting point as far south as the Bahamas. Maybe the Chesapeake, even better from the NY/NJ area.

The best answers, and it is a book length explanation, will be found in "The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South"

The author is a bit of a curmudgeon, and the book really could use a good editor, but if you read it, and actually follow his advice, you will get there in comfort. Maybe a bit slowly, but it is no fun at all just bashing your brains out close hauled into the trade winds for days at a time.

We have done it, and it works.

[sailnautilus]

Having left Florida for the Caribbean multiple times in a few different boats, I can make a firm recommendation...do not go during the winter winds when the trades are their strongest. This means that you avoid going east in December thru February, you must then go in the spring, March, and get to your selected destination, or a hurricane hole, before June. The Gentleman’s guide to passages South is excellent and has lots of good strategies, but you must study it and literally become a weather guru to find those brief periods when you can make eastward progress. Our most recent trip was in a 52’ monohull and we went south thru the windward passage and then south of the islands eastward....Frank Virgintino has many guides for this area that advocate this route.....it was miserable from Haiti to the BVI and we spent several days in harbors waiting for the winds out of the east to ease below 20k. Pick your time of the year carefully and it is not easy, but at least doable. You can look at Jimmy Cornell’s wind atlas and see the dramatic differences by month.....
Safe travels.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by billknny

First, the "65 and then south" method does NOT work from a starting point as far south as the Bahamas.

Billknny, when you say it doesn't work, can you elaborate on that a bit? I assume you are simply referring to the greater challenge of reaching the 65th?


Thanks for both replies! I have Van Sant's book, but I confess I have read only a little of it, since it pertains to a route I have hoped to never follow. I also have Les Weatheritt's "Caribbean Passagemaking", but it contains only one page pertaining to the subject.

[Lowcountry]

I think that in a boat that size with such little tankage, I would pick my way down to the Turks and Caicos and then hop down to the Dominican Republic. Then, with a proper weather window, I would cross the Mona Passage to Puerto Rico and pick my way down the islands again.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by dixiedawg

Billknny, when you say it doesn't work, can you elaborate on that a bit? I assume you are simply referring to the greater challenge of reaching the 65th?


Thanks for both replies! I have Van Sant's book, but I confess I have read only a little of it, since it pertains to a route I have hoped to never follow. I also have Les Weatheritt's "Caribbean Passagemaking", but it contains only one page pertaining to the subject.

The reason it doesn't work to go for the I-65 route from Georgetown is because you are way into the trade winds belt and to go east you will be beating dead against the wind, waves and current. 99% of the time the winds will be beating you on the nose and in the winter beating you hard.

You have to start heading east from much farther north where you are out of the easterly trades. SC is a good option but it can theoretically be done as far south as Jacksonville FL.

The only times you will see winds in the south Bahamas with any kind of westerly component will be when there is a weather pattern strong enough to counteract the trades, either a tropical low in the summer/fall or a cold front in the winter. Obviously you don't want to do this during a tropical depression and doing this in the winter is tricky. A lot of fronts never make it as far south as the Exumas but some do and are often very strong bringing strong N-NE-NW winds that will be way more than you want to ride in a 27' boat. Getting really accurate forecasts of how strong the fronts will be in the south Bahamas is also very iffy. I suggest you be very careful trying to ride a front towards the VI. It can be done but it can take weeks of waiting for the right conditions, some winters you get very few strong fronts but some can also kick your butt.

[Matt Johnson]

We left in March for the I-65 route from Harbor Island Bahamas and had a great sail for most of it. The last bit required motoring, but we were going to St Barths and would have been fine sailing to BVIs without the motoring. The weather for this route is much better in fall and spring... not the typical winter time that most boats make the run south.

Matt

[billknny]

Originally Posted by dixiedawg

Thanks for both replies! I have Van Sant's book, but I confess I have read only a little of it, since it pertains to a route I have hoped to never follow....

Now I am totally confused...

Van Sant's book is almost exclusively about getting from the Bahamas to the BVI by the easiest, least stressful route possible. What do you mean it pertains to "a route you never hoped to follow"? Isn't that the point of your question?

If you have his book, read his take on the offshore passages. They are more complete than any summary you can get here.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by billknny

Now I am totally confused...

Van Sant's book is almost exclusively about getting from the Bahamas to the BVI by the easiest, least stressful route possible. What do you mean it pertains to "a route you never hoped to follow"? Isn't that the point of your question?

Not exactly.

The point of my question was to learn more about the "non stop" route from the Bahamas to the VI, particularly when using a carefully chosen norther to achieve the necessary easting to the 65th. I have heard this route (complete with its own set of very real challenges and perils) advocated over the thorny path, and was curious to hear from those who have followed it.

I worded my first post poorly. Full apology.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by dixiedawg

Not exactly.

The point of my question was to learn more about the "non stop" route from the Bahamas to the VI, particularly when using a carefully chosen norther to achieve the necessary easting to the 65th. I have heard this route (complete with its own set of very real challenges and perils) advocated over the thorny path, and was curious to hear from those who have followed it.

I worded my first post poorly. Full apology.

First, no need to apologize. I think the original post was pretty clear.

Also to make sure my reply is clear, I'm not saying that one can't catch a front from the Bahamas and ride it east to make an easier passage to the VI. It just isn't a sure thing in several ways. I have only made the trip all the way east to the VI a couple of times but have sailed east through the Bahamas numerous times.

Winter fronts are extremely unreliable. Some winters in the south Bahamas they would roll through non stop. Some winters they seldom reached the south Bahamas. Some fronts were way more than I would choose for a ride east, some so weak they didn't bring enough wind to counter the trades. And again, predicting the strength of the winds behind a front in the far Bahamas or offshore headed east is very unreliable.

So, it could happen but I wouldn't plan my trip around it and I would have a plan B.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by dixiedawg

Not exactly.

The point of my question was to learn more about the "non stop" route from the Bahamas to the VI, particularly when using a carefully chosen norther to achieve the necessary easting to the 65th. I have heard this route (complete with its own set of very real challenges and perils) advocated over the thorny path, and was curious to hear from those who have followed it.

I worded my first post poorly. Full apology.

No problem...

Here is the issue with the direct offshore route. On a 27 foot boat you'll make MAYBE 100 miles a day on average, if you are lucky. If you head from the Bahamas to the VI you have at least a week at sea. Any frontal weather you catch at the beginning will run over you, and leave you behind beating into the trades, which will be miserable, and there is no place to hide.

I have a much bigger boat, and I wouldn't consider it. It is not what I consider fun. Other people love bashing into wind and wave. I'll wait three weeks to avoid a 700 mile windward bash, or sail 1000 miles out of my way.

If you know what you are doing, and can take some time, the "thorny" path really is NOT hard or unpleasant. You just wait for a break, sail at night, use island lees, and other tricks and it's a delightful series of sails. You can not expect to do it in a week. Sometimes you catch a break, and can run with the weather. Last trip we hopped from T&C to PR in one go with favorable weather.

If I was leaving the US coast from further north, then I would absolutely make my easting above the trade winds, and then turn down and catch them on a beam reach. That doesn't make any sense from the Bahamas or central Florida because you are into the teeth of the trades as you try to sail east.

[Snore]

Yes, you CAN take I65 from SFLA. I have done it on deliveries.

But, it is not for the faint of heart. It requires catching a cold front when you are east of the Gulf Stream and riding the NW to N to NE winds east. In a perfect world the front fades just as you reach 65. The easterly winds return for an easy run south.

The issues with doing this on a 27’ boat are 1) carrying the needed fuel. If the cold front fades you need fuel to finish easting. 2) this is a serious blue water passage— why risk it? If you asked me to deliver your boat to the VI I would not take this route. 3) ignoring 1&2, this is a rough passage to take that small of a boat on. Expect to get beaten up.


I am assuming the boat averages 4 kts under sail. A better plan would be to island hop south, breaking it up into legs of 90-100NM.

[Matt Johnson]

But, if you head East and the wind turns, the Bahamas are an easy return... and you can always South to Turks or DR.

Personally, I'd stay in the Bahamas until spring and then jump out on a passing front. Otherwise, you'll end-up in Puerto Rico like everyone for hurricane season. The return trip West is a much more pleasant way of visiting the islands you passed by on I-65.

It's about 400 miles from the Bahamas to the first turn to the South East then another 200 miles to where you turn directly South and finish on a reach with typical trade winds. So, 6 days of 'Easting' with a front.

Matt

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Winter fronts are extremely unreliable. Some winters in the south Bahamas they would roll through non stop. Some winters they seldom reached the south Bahamas. Some fronts were way more than I would choose for a ride east, some so weak they didn't bring enough wind to counter the trades. And again, predicting the strength of the winds behind a front in the far Bahamas or offshore headed east is very unreliable.

That dovetails with what I have gathered, watching these fronts (from the comfort of my living room) for the last couple years. I've been keeping notes on them, how long they lasted, how strong the winds were, how far east they extended, wave heights/periods, etc. There have not been many fronts over the past two winters that looked "usable", even from the comfort of home. Last year, I think there was ONE.



The unreliability of the forecasts is another matter entirely, one I was uninformed of and thus had not factored in.

Originally Posted by billknny

If you know what you are doing, and can take some time, the "thorny" path really is NOT hard or unpleasant. You just wait for a break, sail at night, use island lees, and other tricks and it's a delightful series of sails.

That is certainly good to hear. I had heard a lot of negative stuff, to the effect that Van Sant was full of crap, and that a thousand miles straight into the trades is still a thousand miles straight into the trades no matter how you sliced it up into little pieces. I am back to reading his book now - and enjoying it more than I had been previously.

Originally Posted by Snore

Yes, you CAN take I65 from SFLA. I have done it on deliveries.
But, it is not for the faint of heart. If you asked me to deliver your boat to the VI I would not take this route.

Thank you for that little tidbit right there, it says a lot.