California to Europe

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sorry.. its the Delivery Skipper in me..
Always go for the shortest viable route with minimal stops..
Did not realise you wanted to stop and smell the roses along the way..
In which case... stay in the Azores till late September checking out those lovely islands then head for Lisbon/Cascais from Sao Miguel or straight down to San Vincente and the Algarve (8/9 days) where this year the weather was fantastic as usual that time of year then work your way East if the Med is your aim.. maybe upriver to Sevile and then down to Cadiz to await a window for the Strait.
Going N from Lisbon is a pain, better to aim further N and stop in N Spain like La Coruna and wait for one of the periodic SW'lies to run the Biscay.
Better to bite the bullet and do the 1500nm to Falmouth from Terciera and save valuable time while getting past some temperamental waters.
From Falmouth on its easy peasy...

I would not advise travel in the western approaches in September , you are rolling dice . ( this year it was reasonable ) I would do it with a big boat and a strong crew right up to November, but that's different

If going to Gib , then yes as you can say you can go much later , but I believe the OP wants to go to the baltic

trying this trip in one season is a recipe for a disaster , just getting North out of Panama is a major challenge

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I would not advise travel in the western approaches in September , you are rolling dice . ( this year it was reasonable ) I would do it with a big boat and a strong crew right up to November, but that's different

If going to Gib , then yes as you can say you can go much later , but I believe the OP wants to go to the baltic

trying this trip in one season is a recipe for a disaster , just getting North out of Panama is a major challenge

I was not suggesting he head for Falmouth in September..
That was if he intends to head for the Med as he's now considering it seems.
Falmouth, if he wants the Baltic ASAP I would do from Bermuda.. everything's in your favour.. winds, currents..

[JanekPL]

OK, I give up, you have persuaded me to reconsider, reason has won the day. I really do appreciate not only all the pointers and advice, but also what I sense is your genuine concern for the safety of a fellow-adventurer.

So it looks like I will sail part-way next year and wait out the hurricane season somewhere, which will allow me to start on the European leg at a better time of the year in '23. I'm bouncing in my head the ideas for a good place to lay over. So many choices, it seems. On the Pacific side, Colombia is really nice these days, but maybe it would be better to get across Panama and find a good vantage point for the next stage. I love Barbados, and it's low hurricane risk. Or some other place where the boat could be safely moored or hauled out to wait out the season. How far can I count on getting by end of May? Not that it's about "how far", I guess I'm trying to find the best spot, all things considered.

Ideas?

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by JanekPL

OK, I give up, you have persuaded me to reconsider, reason has won the day. I really do appreciate not only all the pointers and advice, but also what I sense is your genuine concern for the safety of a fellow-adventurer.

So it looks like I will sail part-way next year and wait out the hurricane season somewhere, which will allow me to start on the European leg at a better time of the year in '23. I'm bouncing in my head the ideas for a good place to lay over. So many choices, it seems. On the Pacific side, Colombia is really nice these days, but maybe it would be better to get across Panama and find a good vantage point for the next stage. I love Barbados, and it's low hurricane risk. Or some other place where the boat could be safely moored or hauled out to wait out the season. How far can I count on getting by end of May? Not that it's about "how far", I guess I'm trying to find the best spot, all things considered.

Ideas?

You can have it hauled at the canal on the atlantic side. Contact shelter bay marina. They can give you a price

[ka4wja]

Jane,
I generally steer clear of these threads, but my buddy Dockhead just took the words off my keyboard. LOL

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Getting to the Baltic then East around might make sense.


In that case you want the far Northern route, maybe even stopping in Iceland, then Faroes, Shetlands, Norway. For that you could work your way up the North American East coast as far as Newfoundland before hopping off.



You will want to do the high North Atlantic part in a narrow window before the August gales and after the spring ones, so really June and July, ideally. Can you get to the jumping off point before next early summer? That's a lot of miles for roughly six months. If you can't manage that, then you will need to wait for 2023 for the high Atlantic crossing.


If your sailing experience is "meagre", you will want experienced crew with you, and you will want to carefully and thoroughly prepare the boat. An Eastbound high North Atlantic crossing is one of the toughest ocean crossings you can do. The good side of this is that the distances are fairly short, especially if you stop in Iceland. But you will need ace weather routing and top heavy weather skills, so you will want to recruit the optimum crew.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

From California, you would normally go around the other way, to use the trade winds. Go South until the butter melts, then turn right. Do the Pacific coconut run, pass through the Straits of Malacca, cross the Indian Ocean, then either the Gulf of Aden and Suez Canal into the Med (if you're comfortable with the possible piracy risk), or otherwise round the Cape of Good Hope. Then Bob's your uncle.

If you go East around, you can't use the trade winds. Sail down to Panama, transit the canal, then sail North to Florida, along the U.S. East Coast, then hop off at some point and make for Ireland on a great circle route. Or you might hop off earlier and head for Bermuda, then Azores. Depending on where exactly you want to go in Europe and what the weather is like. But an Eastward Atlantic crossing cannot be done practically except above the doldrums latitudes, and those are pretty gnarly waters. In a fairly slow boat like a HC40, you are more or less guaranteed to tangle with at least one serious gale on the way, if not several.

If I were you, I would stick with the trade winds and go West around.

So...

So, how about I'll just say: Ditto!

Oh, and......well, just a little bit...
I'm a north Atlantic and Caribbean sailor (been doing it since a kid in the 1960's), and until you've been walloped by a N. Atlantic Gale, many just don't get it....
{fyi, it was never "planned", but I've been through a few full Gales during an eastbound N. Atlantic crossing, as well as been overtook by a Tropical Storm (in the Tropical N. Atlantic, thank goodness a westbound crossing), and while I have no desire for either again, I'd take the Tropical Storm in a second if given the choice of the two!!}

Now, if you really want some N. Atlantic stories, ask my 100 year old Mom (yes, she's right her)....in the late 1970's, she and my late father sailed out of Ft. Lauderdale on April 2nd....spent a week undergoing engine repairs in Bermuda, and then headed across for Falmouth in mid-April....
One day out of Bermuda, the engine failed (broke a piston pin, and cracked the block...not repaired at sea), so they SAILED to Horta, and then SAILED onto Falmouth (sailed up the river there)....and, I was luckily still finishing school in Ft. Lauderdale....

They told stories of wicked storms and big seas, which is not an issue for me....but it was the friggin' COLD and the WET COLD that was brutal!
(and, probably would make me cry? LOL)


Moral here:
Do it in June or July!!!
(yes, I've done it....end of June and thru July....and it's a pretty nice sail by then! Still got caught once by one Full Gale (July 1st, I think), but it wasn't too bad....)

But, a novice sailor, who has never been offshore, and wants to single-hand?
In an old classic HansChr?
Not on a bad day would I ever recommend that!
(that means "don't do it!")


Take care and fair winds!

John

[Stu Jackson]

Glad to hear the safety cautions have gotten through to you.


Have you read this?


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ma-258782.html

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ka4wja

. . .I'm a north Atlantic and Caribbean sailor (been doing it since a kid in the 1960's), and until you've been walloped by a N. Atlantic Gale, many just don't get it....
{fyi, it was never "planned", but I've been through a few full Gales during an eastbound N. Atlantic crossing, as well as been overtook by a Tropical Storm (in the Tropical N. Atlantic, thank goodness a westbound crossing), and while I have no desire for either again, I'd take the Tropical Storm in a second if given the choice of the two!!}

Note well what ka4wja says about North Atlantic gales vs. tropical rotating storms. The ocean is a very, very different place with latitude.

Originally Posted by ka4wja

. . . But, a novice sailor, who has never been offshore, and wants to single-hand?
In an old classic HansChr?
Not on a bad day would I ever recommend that!
(that means "don't do it!"). . .

My impression is that the OP is being modest and isn't all that novice.

And old HC may be slow, but these boats are strong as hell and wouldn't be my last choice for this kind of trip. Of course I'd prefer something bigger and faster, but carefully prepared, and equipped with a series drogue, I think that's a quite safe boat for bad offshore conditions.

I think he'd be fine on that trip IF he can get the boat really well prepared AND he has good, experienced crew (as I suggested upthread) for the Atlantic crossing. Experienced or not, that's not fun or really safe single handed.

[carstenb]

By tje time he crosses the north atlantic he will have gained a lot of experience. I persoally still wouldn’t try that single-handed

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Note well what ka4wja says about North Atlantic gales vs. tropical rotating storms. The ocean is a very, very different place with latitude.



My impression is that the OP is being modest and isn't all that novice.

And old HC may be slow, but these boats are strong as hell and wouldn't be my last choice for this kind of trip. Of course I'd prefer something bigger and faster, but carefully prepared, and equipped with a series drogue, I think that's a quite safe boat for bad offshore conditions.

I think he'd be fine on that trip IF he can get the boat really well prepared AND he has good, experienced crew (as I suggested upthread) for the Atlantic crossing. Experienced or not, that's not fun or really safe single handed.

Any decent North Atlantic Gale can be a small yacht killer. Don’t ever rely on the “brand “ of yacht to see you through. It’s your skill ( and luck ) that counts as well as being prepared. A key factor is not to take risks you don’t need to take.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Pretty childish nonsense with the my storm is worse than your cyclone banter. A serious storm at sea is just that, serious. Why pretend that one can be dissmissed while the other is important.

Precisely why , people saying “ buy boat brand xx , and you’ll be fine in sea water xxx or storms “ simply have clearly not sailed in these areas.

Having said that the “ Western Approaches” is one of the most dangerous and difficult sea areas in the world when the weather goes against you. entirely unadvisable to play dice with the weather in this area.

[carstenb]

I would venture to say that in these days of accurate weather forecasting and the ability to download a forecast from virtually anywhere on the planet - being caught in a serious storm should be a very rare event. After all, if the forecast sows a storm coming, even if you are on passage, you can heave to and let it pass or turn and sail away from it

Even in the western approaches (yes I have sailed them), there are plenty of storm warnings. Ignoring them is what causes problems.

We've been bluewater cruising form over 5 years and while we have been gales and had hard weather, we've never been surprised by one - we knew they were coming.

We know a circumnavigator that upon completion was proudly able to say "The worst weather we were at sea in was 15m/s (30 knots, Beaufort 7) and we had it coming from aft"

Good seamanship on their part

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by u4ea32

If you beat across to the Eastern Caribbean (aim for any islands from Grenada to the Virgin Islands) then enjoy the islands for a bit -- you will need it -- and then set off from Antigua to Bermuda before June.

As far as timing goes, it would probably be too tight, but Antigua Race Week is runs April 30th - May 6, 2022. There are always a bunch of Med boats that compete at Race Week, finish up racing (and partying) that weekend, spend the following week getting provisioned and organise crew, then hop off for the Atlantic (some via Bermuda, some not) with the first acceptable initial weather. Generally heading for Azores as first stop.

Ultimate goal is to be in the Med for the Summer.

Just an alternate idea if you want company while crossing. (Well, not exactly 'company' because their boats will be faster than yours, but just knowing that other boats are proximate and travelling in the same direction.)

Please note, however, all Antigua Race Week boats cross generally by that second week of May (at the latest) to provide a bit of margin from hurricane season's start in June. They don't mess around.

Fair winds,
LittleWing77

P.S. As always, Boatie's advice (boatman61) is gold. He's a delivery skipper and has done many crossings in all seasons. (No disrespect meant to Dockhead, of course, who is an old salt himself and has a unique Northern European perspective of his own.)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

I would venture to say that in these days of accurate weather forecasting and the ability to download a forecast from virtually anywhere on the planet - being caught in a serious storm should be a very rare event. After all, if the forecast sows a storm coming, even if you are on passage, you can heave to and let it pass or turn and sail away from it

Even in the western approaches (yes I have sailed them), there are plenty of storm warnings. Ignoring them is what causes problems.

We've been bluewater cruising form over 5 years and while we have been gales and had hard weather, we've never been surprised by one - we knew they were coming.

We know a circumnavigator that upon completion was proudly able to say "The worst weather we were at sea in was 15m/s (30 knots, Beaufort 7) and we had it coming from aft"

Good seamanship on their part

Sure, but, as you know, if the forecast shows the storm hitting in two days and you are still three days from safety, you're screwed. These North Atlantic gales can be seen forming more than two days ahead, but they often turn unexpectedly, and can be so big you just can't get out of their way.


Particularly in a slower boat, which will take at least two if not three weeks to get across, you will not have any guaranty that good weather forecasting will be enough to allow you to avoid every storm.


Most people I know who have done a high Atlantic Eastbound crossing have been hit at least once along the way, and that includes some of the most skillful sailors I know.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Any decent North Atlantic Gale can be a small yacht killer. Don’t ever rely on the “brand “ of yacht to see you through. It’s your skill ( and luck ) that counts as well as being prepared. A key factor is not to take risks you don’t need to take.

I agree, but I don't think anyone said anything different. No one said a strong boat would be enough without more to keep you safe, and I supposed everyone in this thread without exception agrees that it's not enough.


But a strong boat is not a bad thing to have in your portfolio, on top of skill, a decent crew, and a Jordan Series Drogue, in case you do get caught in a storm you were not able to avoid.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

And single handed? With "meagre" experience? Fuggeditaboutit. You need proper crew for this, not less than three people, preferably four or five. This is serious ocean sailing.

Worth repeating. Sound guidance.

Add in the fact that you seem to have an imposed limited time period which means you will be inclined to push towards completion of the journey even if weather or the condition of ship or of crew issues were not favorable.

Do not bring an expectation of a date of arrival on board a long journey as that can be a hazardous carry aboard luggage.