Florida to Belize - REALITY CHECK.....

[laika]

I'm apprehensive to vote because the options are very vague and non-specific to your particular situation. As others have alluded to, if you intend to do this it should not be under the guise of commuting back and forth very rarely. Tho that could be a great excuse! For a crew of 9, it will be a significant investment of time and money to buy outfit and keep operational, and it should be a profound lifestyle commitment you decide to make with open eyes.

It can be a totally doable and worthwhile commitment to make, but at least from this corner of the internet, here's one who's not convinced your approaching it with a solid hold.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by belizefamily

Because we are not experienced at all w sailing, in the long run we would want to do a sailboat, we were thinking to start with a good size express cruiser... something in the 35-45 foot range with good powerful engines and at least 2-3 cabins...

So I will offer my 5 cents... Take it for what it is worth. Hopefully it is helpful.

Buy 1 boat and 1 boat only for this project. Boats are long term commitments not because you have to be committed to them like an adopted puppy or your kids or spouse or something. Its because you can't get rid of them easily and they are expensive luxury items that can not be stored in your back yard. Check the cost of a slip for your boat and for availability before you buy.

Forget about trailering. 40 and 50 foot boats do not trailer unless there are no other options. Most need to be dismantled and width is always an issue. So are cranes, escort vehicles and expensive tractor trailer rigs. Moving it 10 miles on a trailer or 300 miles would not be much difference in cost. Regardless think several thousands per move.

A lightly loaded 35 foot express cruiser at 15-20 knots easily burns 200 liters an hour (3.78 ltr/ US Gal) on flat water. A 45 foot express cruiser will burn considerably more, think triple. Please don't think you will just putt along at 5 or 6 knots in this boat to conserve fuel. You will not. They are extremely uncomfortable in waves and chop, very rolly. It would not surprise me to find out that you destroy that boat in 3 or 4 trips. I may be wrong and don't want to insult anyone but I don't think they were built to go 600 miles into wave and chop. They likely suffer severe structural fiberglass damage on that kind of voyage at speed. I am not even sure they can carry enough fuel for the trip. You can get blue water power boats and trawlers but express cruisers are not that boat and I think your into huge money.

You want a sail boat I think and learning to sail is not that difficult. You just need to want to learn and be cautious but not afraid. Learn to trim sails and learn to reef sails and what not... Lots of people have gone out, bought a boat, sailed away and never looked back.

You have a large herd of people. I don't know how many you plan on traveling with. If its total 4-5 there are lots of boats here that will do.

https://www.cruisingworld.com/9-great-used-sailboats

If everybody is coming you need a big boat and I would imagine that with 9 people you are looking at 50+ feet and it will still be crowded. Adequate sleeping, water and food storage are required and must be considered. My boat in its charter version will sleep 10 but most of them are going to be very uncomfortable if trying to sleep if the boat is traveling.

Your sail boat should be a tough no nonsense blue water boat for what you want to do. It needs to sail well because if it does not you will dread the trip and that is no way to travel. Your going to want a performance cruiser and by that I mean one that can sail well and that has a deeper body. Not flat bottom because it will pound. Not a race boat but a good sailing cruiser.

Don't know what your money is like but Tayana 42, 52 ( all built really well) , almost any large German Frers design ( https://sailboatdata.com/designer/frers-german ) Gulfstar 44 or 50 ( 1976 to 81) Hylas 49 ($$$) 54($$$$) , Petersons ( https://sailboatdata.com/designer/peterson-doug ) Jeanneau Sunkiss 47 and many more are all well built capable cruisers and most with reasonable keel depth.

Some of these can be had for well under 100K US but you will need to put some money in. After buying your boat for 100K you might find you have 40K in taxes and delivery. Then refit money which adds up fast. Not hard to blow 100K-150K refitting a 25-30 yr old boat and its still worth exactly what you purchased it for. A suit of sails for my boat is 30K CDN taxes in buying dacron (least expensive). For that matter you could buy a 4 year old Hylas 49 for 600K and put 100K in it next week. Boats are like that. of course it helps if you can do it yourself but boat repairs take time.

Buying an older ( 80's) production boat is better quality but more fix up $. Semi custom like the Hylas are likely good any year because they are not building to a price point. I would stay away from any production boats after 1999. Some will argue and they can but that's my opinion.

The bigger boats mentioned here in the right conditions can travel 150 to 200 mile in 24 hrs. Moving from Florida to Belize over the top of Cuba your going against the current and I don't think that many are going to get that mileage, likely 1/2 in the current. With that large crew you are going to need to stop likely in Cuba because no one will be sleeping as you move west north of Cuba. You can go south of Cuba but it is of course a longer trip.

In addition if there are any easterly components in the wind as you travel from the Keys to Mexico over top Cuba or back it is going to be very uncomfortable. Wind against current creates standing waves and its ugly and I think you will only make that mistake once. Same as you head south between Cuba and Central America. Any wind with a northerly component will make for a bad ride. Cruisers wait for the right weather, especially if the Gulf Stream is involved. In general if the wind is blowing against the current at all it is going to be a bad day.

Finally you will want a boat you can move around safely in at sea for moving to the toilet, cooking, sleeping etc. This means there needs to be hand holds every few feet. Everyone on the crew needs to reach them. I saw a beautiful Caliber 47 LRC once. But if you were only 5 ft tall you could not reach the hand holds.

As you can see its a simple idea with lots of details. Can it be done? For sure. Can it be fun. Absolutely!! Just make sure you have the right boat for you and you are in no hurry during your travel. People in a hurry drive or fly.

Finally I have only mentioned and considered mono hulls. I would not consider a catamaran but they are very popular. The same rules apply about wind and waves and moving around. Perhaps some cat owners can comment on them.

Could go on forever. Good luck. Sorry for being so wordy.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by laika

I'm apprehensive to vote because the options are very vague and non-specific to your particular situation. As others have alluded to, if you intend to do this it should not be under the guise of commuting back and forth very rarely. Tho that could be a great excuse! For a crew of 9, it will be a significant investment of time and money to buy outfit and keep operational, and it should be a profound lifestyle commitment you decide to make with open eyes.

It can be a totally doable and worthwhile commitment to make, but at least from this corner of the internet, here's one who's not convinced your approaching it with a solid hold.

I agree with laika. Its a great life style but it is a life style. It is not transportation, its a way of exploring and living.


Boats have to be maintained all the time or they fall apart fast. A small leak can ruin an interior pretty quick.

[waterman46]

Both you and hubby take a charter offshore and see if you can deal with rough waves in a small boat. There may be issues with his back injury.

[gsuescum]

I love you guys’ sense of adventure and willingness to try our new things! Remind me of my wife.

I just google mapped Belize City to Tampa FL and it said 47 hrs of driving. If you’re considering the boat as primarily a method to travel without flying, driving might be a better option.

If you’re planning to use a boat once a year to cross and she sits at a dock the rest of the time, we are talking $1000s in dockage, a few weeks full time prepping, servicing and $ getting a neglected boat ready before can you safely depart. If motoring you’ll also spend $1000s in diesel for the trip. And if you HAVE to be in FL in a certain date, you may make a bad departure decision; like leaving with bad weather window.

If you’re looking for a sailboat or trawler to live/cruise, ignore everything above above. If it’s literally just transport 1x per year, drive or hitch a ride on someone else’s boat.

Good luck on your next adventure!

[thataway41]

I voted you could do it...but with some reservation--in that it is possible, but not practical.
We have spent about 8 months total in Honduras, Rio Dulce, Belize/Isla Mujeres; then sailing to Fl. Keys or Pensacola, as part of several trips thru the canal to S. Calif. in monohull sailboats. One of our boats drew 7'--really very iffy for Rio/but we found places to anchor in Belize--outer Islands. The other was 6 feet draft--and better, but not ideal. For that reason, I would also recommend a cat in the 45 to 50 foot range.

The difficulty is stops along the way. Cuba is about the only option. The ports are fairly well described in Nigel Calder's book, which is dated. A friend cove hopped along the North Coast of Cuba (and several the S. Coast). The North Coast is subject to the Northers during the winter--and you really don't want to be out there in 40 to 50+ knots of wind. These northers can extend as far South as Nicaragua. (Where you are far more likely to encounter "Pirates".) Nix the Shot Gun. (I was armed on all of my trips, but your voyage would not necessitate arms.) The seas will make the trip perhaps untenable for your husband. (I have also had back surgeries, and eventually had to give up sailing because of the pain and weakness.). There are reefs, so navigation has to be precise--and the officials may or may not be prepared to deal with yachts from the USA--depending on the current political situation.

If you wanted to make a more leisurely Cruise, the South Coast of Cuba would be a far better option. It would also give you some insight into the plight of the Cuban People.

I would only buy a 50 (or so) foot cat, if I was going to make a major commitment to spending a lot of time aboard. It is not cheap to buy or to maintain. You might find an independent charter skipper, who would take you on a voyage, but it will be expensive. Insurance is a real problem.

We have always gone non stop from Isla Mujeres to the USA mainland. Part of traveling by boat on this route, is making a several day passage. That in itself is an adventure, and something your children will remember (My children are grown, but they still often remind me how important it was in their lives that we spent years cruising into remote areas with them.)

[CaptBobR]

The trip should take 10 -12 days. One option is to use a delivery skipper. While that is more expensive than sailing it yourself, it reduces time on the open sea which can be unpredictable and also reduces the amount of knowledge you would have to acquire to safely make that voyage.

One trip with a licensed captain would not be enough.

Also if you are looking for a delivery captain, choose one with a 1600 GRT oceans license not a 100 tin skipper

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by belizefamily

Hi! We are new to the Forum, have been living in Belize ~ 15 years and are beginning to look at the idea of buying a boat to travel from the Keys to Belize 1x per year or 2 to visit the Folks and family as they age.

We figure the first step, before we invest in a boat, is to find an experienced captain who would be willing to take my husband or my husband and myself on such a journey so we can get a feel for what it's like. We have not done any boating outside the barrier reef and we gather it is QUITE a different experience and that due to currents it is generally best to travel the long way around...

In fact the more I read, the more it seems like there is a lot of discouraging advice out there about how rough the waters are and with the pirate risk etc... maybe it is an insane idea??? Then again there is actual risk vs. perceived risk.... so that is what we are looking into...

Is it realistic, what are the dangers, and what would it cost us to charter a vessel from Florida keys to Belize or vice versa...… Any help or advice is appreciated...be kind- we know we are newbies and are taking this thing slow, we are pretty tenacious folks who left the USA to carve out a life in the jungles of Belize where we have raised our 7 kids, so challenge, struggle, difficulty, and danger are okay, it is all about understanding the particular challenges and dangers this kind of trip would involve!

Travelling by boat is not a cost effective or time effective thing to do. The only valid reason to do it is if you love the sea, and in particular, love sailing.

The only way you are going to know that is if you do it quite a bit and see.

Get a smaller cruising boat and sail every week for a year before you bite off the big one, otherwise, the odds are that within two years you will be selling the boat, at a loss, and while you may be happy for the experience, you won’t be thinking about doing it again.

So get some sea miles, lots of it, decide then if you like it.

[tompdx]

I love the idea, but that is because I plan to move onto a boat in the Caribbean soon. It is just my wife and I. Our first boat was a 27 foot express cruiser that we moored on the river. We loved the marina life so much that we decided we wanted to some day live aboard full time.

That lead to our second boat, a 38 foot express bridge, which suits our needs much more fully. We've had that one now for 3.5 years and are becoming experienced boaters. We also plan to charter a larger boat in the BVIs next spring to more fully explore the Caribbean experience, since much of our boating has been on rivers.

If all goes well, we plan to buy a 60 foot flybridge cruiser to live on. While I love the idea of a sailboat (and not paying for diesel), with just to two of us I think it would be harder to crew as we age. In addition, we don't plan to move it around often. I envy your children - good luck!

[petermjdavies]

I havent done any detailed investigation, but why not consider travelling by cargo ship to Belize? I am sure they will have ships that call, and that way you dont have to worry about voyaging or boat ownership. Assumes you have someplace to lay your head in Belize but you are visiting family, right?

[sail4evr]

Hi, I have some friends, a couple, who are delivery captains for Moorings. They are just completing their 2nd trip to Tahiti from Virgin islands. They have their own boat in Rio Dulce and will, don't know for sure, probably stop in Rio Dulce on their way back if they have time before their next delivery.
You realize a boat big enough to sleep 11 is a big boat, 50+. It might be wiser to send the youngest of your kids or those not so interested in the trip by plane to family in Florida, then charter a smaller boat. Moorings has a base in Belize, I guess you know. Charter a boat there. A boat that can sleep 10 and if you hot bunk one you could do it. They are not cheap boats and I don't know what their inventory there is. Send me your contact information if you are interested and I will pass it on when we hear from them next. In a week or so likely
joe

[snowbiker]

You mentioned that a major reason for the desire to travel by boat is medical trouble with commercial air travel. Have you considered chartering a small jet that can keep sea level pressure for the whole trip? It's expensive, but two flights a year are probably still cheaper than the depreciation and maintenance of a boat big enough to get you back and forth comfortably. You get nice seats, freedom to walk around basically the whole time other than take off and landing, and you get to skip TSA too. Most [all?] jets can fly at sea level pressure up to a lower than normal altitude ceiling. They just don't because the low ceiling means they have to fly in denser air which takes more fuel and is slower. But if you're chartering they're happy to burn as much fuel and log as many flight hours as you're willing to pay for. Nothing against boats, but they're really best when you enjoy that type of journey, and or really want a place with the comforts of home at your destination. Rarely a practical A to B transportation option. By all means, charter a boat to try it out once, but also consider chartering a sea-level pressure plane. -erik

[ben2go]

Let me start by saying that I have never made a trip as you are suggesting. I have been aboard boats, and a lot of them lately. Nine people, seven being kids, I would seriously look into a full displacement vessel around 55 to 65 feet and wide beam with loads of storage. Diesel power, no gassers. I'd look at Hatteras.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/196...as-50-3336187/

I was in talks with a friend to get a contract signed between us to build a 55 foot boat for our two families to hop scotch around the Great Loop. Just to move that boat 230 miles was going to cost us around $6000 to 10,000. Height was no problem as we would have been just under the 13' limit but width would have been the issue at 14ft 5in wide requiring two supporting vehicles, a scout and a follow up. Since we've decided not to build the big boat, my plan is to go back and build the 30ft by 8ft 6in boat I had been planning for years. That is about the biggest trailerable boat without having to have special permits in every state it passes through.

Now onto health. I have spinal stenosis and several other debilitating skeletal issues. I can't climb around on boats and go up and down companion ways, especially if the conditions are rolly. Almost every boat I look at has this issue. Building a boat on my own was my only option as I see it. It will be a slow build and hopefully kicks off this fall in earnest. Mobility problems are a big safety issue on board boats.

[dhr]

Some details you still haven’t shared is how long are you planning to stay in the states each visit from Belize?
What are you planning to do with the boat in Belize
As other people stated boats love maintenance and dollars. Mostly we referred to boat bucks. Since I have a 40-ish powerboat that’s probably $1000 on a 60 footer that might be $10,000. So when you say it only cost a couple boat bucks for a new Nav or a new dingy you get the idea.

I answered the quiz with number two. I kind of think you guys are a little bit crazy to buy a boat before you try it. Find a boat that you could charter on the trip. And charter it and take the trip. This will be pretty expensive. But no way will it be anywhere near as expensive as buying a boat and spending big bucks updating it and then finding out that you really can’t stand it when you really needed an RV and to drive. I bought a reasonable used Grand Banks last year. I have spent about 25% of the price on updates, repairs etc. it could make the trip - with 4 people. Maybe another kid or two. Be real cozy.

I would talk to the charter before I paid the money and make sure that I could stand being on a boat with them for a couple of weeks. That you plan to be Crew and you basically want a bit of training every day on cruising and running in the boat.

And what time of year are you planning these trips? In summer / fall chance of a hurricane.

[glan]

Ohh. Sailing, the most expensive way to get somewhere for free.



Even in optimal case it would probably be more expensive than renting a jet or taking RV, not speaking about going on some freighter. From the vague details available I'm surprised that nobody suggested this way to approach this idea, if you really want to go sailing way.
1) Take a captained charter for a week or two with Sunsail or Moorings. I was going to suggest SailTMM, but looks like they quit Belize :-(( They had very nice base in Ambergris cays :-(
2) You can skip number 1. if you are determined. Take a sailing classes on a same charter to get US Sailing or ASA certifications.
In both cases ask about going beyond the reef (blue hole or somewhere).
3) Try to arrange for a week beyond the reef - not sure it's possible.
4) Try to reach an agreement to get a 45"+ cat and put it into the fleet of one of those charter companies with the allowance to use owner time for FL runs.

If insurance can be worked out and charter company agree to this scheme - that could be the most economical way to handle things. On a plus site you get the boat which sails and cared for, plus some income. On a minus size charterers will wear the boat extensively.



Just an idea. I remember reading more than a decade ago about some couple who wasn't able to afford a new cat and decided to put it into SailTMM fleet for a couple of years to get the boat they want at the half of the price.