How busy is it on the water East Coast?

[Messing About]

The Burnt Store Marina in Punta Gorda, SWFL, still has a 3 year waiting list for a wet slip. It is located on Charlotte Harbor, approximately 5 miles east of the famed Boca Grande Pass.

It’s now corporate owned by Safe Harbor Marinas. The location is also the site of a nice gated community with both high rise condos and small lot single family homes.

It’s where I intend to re-start my liveaboard life before moving on to The Bahamas and Caribbean Islands.

[Shanachie]

The powerboat economics go beyond fuel consumption, too.


Those big outboards are a bear to work on, unlike the old diesels sailboats have that are easy to DIY. I've heard of steep service charges for six-month service. It apparently varies a lot, but $800-1,000 per engine is not unusual.


Not to mention that 60K pickup truck if you're trailering and a storage yard if your local community doesn't like parking it in the driveway.

[MicHughV]

Too true, I ran a twin engined center console fishing boat for a number of years, twin 150 yammies, besides the fuel cost, you are quite correct, service costs per engine is right where you say, every 150 hours or so, or once a year more or less.

Seeing as that I often ran way offshore to fish, having a reliable engine(s) is a must.
Once offshore, the engines were never shut off, they ran all the time, such was my paranoia about not being able to start them again for any reason, a common trait amongst fishermen.

Additionally, my boat was kept in a " drystack" building, so besides all the above, there was another monthly storage bill.

After while, I was faced with catching my own fish at $600/lb or buying it from the fish market at $6/lb.

[Kettlewell]

It depends on the outboards how expensive they are to maintain. On our old 32-foot cat we purchased a new Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke which was her only auxiliary power for 12 years of heavy liveaboard use, including a trip down to the Caribbean and back. That little engine pushed us up and down the ICW several times too. Don't know how many thousands of hours we put on it, but only had one expensive-ish repair when we lost the prop shaft seal and I had it professionally replaced. I think we wound up a fishing line. Other than that, the only maintenance was routine oil and plug changes. In my last job I paid for professional maintenance (in a very expensive area) of a lot of 9.9-150HP outboards that saw hard use in a sailing program, and it was very rare they needed anything other than routine maintenance. If you take care to keep water out of the fuel, use good filters, put Stabil 360 in every tank, and periodically change the plugs many outboards will run nearly forever. I recently gave away a Johnson 8HP two-stroke that served us faithfully for about 18 years of heavy liveaboard use. Started on first or second pull every time. Of course the newer and much bigger outboards are all fancy electronics and stuff that makes them very expensive to service. Still, outboard-powered boats seem to be the ones that get the most use, in general. I'm always impressed when I see small fishing boats headed out in New England on a sunny day in February.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Friggin' hot.

We had a good day today, even though it was over 90F, but it was blowing 15-20 knots with steep chop. Most people won't sail when it's blowing. So if they can go out in light winds because it's hot and won't go out in fresh winds because it's rough ... they don't go out.

I am right near Annapolis, and we saw two boats.

Yep, friggin' hot, even early in the day. And then there's weekdays versus weekends.

We came back north from Deale 0800-ish on Tuesday AM, dead calm, saw two watermen near the mouth of the West River.

-Chris

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Yep, fishermen are the champion boat users, but mostly the outboard-powered ones. The bigger ones rarely go out. In New England a lot of sailors keep their boats on mooring balls, and many marinas are probably 90% or more power only. The average power cruiser sits at the dock most of the 6-month season, with the occasional sunset cruise out and back and one or two weekend jaunts per season. Still, lots of the sailboats on moorings rarely go out. The thing about Cuttyhunk that makes it a good judge of what is happening with cruising is very few boats are based there. Most boats we see there are cruisers, and traffic is way down so far this year.

Fishermen definitely take the cake, although here it's the charter guys putting the most hours on their boats by far. Some of them do as many hours in a month as most of us can hope for in a season, even if we spend a lot of time cruising.

Around here there aren't many moorings, so marinas are much closer to 50/50 power / sail. Lots of people just don't use their boats enough in general, but we have 4 basic categories of people that do use their boats quite a lot (although it's only a fraction of the total boats in the area). There's the party crowd that's out a couple times a week for a few hours to drink and be obnoxious, the sailors that are out every race night (and some every time there's a puff of wind), the previously mentioned fishing boats, and the cruisers that will be off to somewhere on their boats as much as they can be (mostly sail in this area, but there are a few of us with powerboats that cruise more than 1 weekend per year).

I did see quite a lot of boats actually going somewhere and not just out for the day over the holiday weekend though, certainly enough to surprise me.

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Marina fuel prices at our local marina are right at $5/gal, that's for the non-ethanol variety.
Outboard engines have a prodigious thirst..your typical 150 hp engine will use 6-7 gal/hr at cruise, double that when wide open.
A day's fishing can consume $300 worth of fuel for that size engine...even if your fishing buddies chip in a few gas dollars, it is still an expensive outing...

Naturally, if you have twin engines or bigger engines, bring a big check book.

Yep, depending on the engine and power demand, figure you get 10 - 12 hp-hr per gallon of gas with gas engines (inboard or outboard). So a 150hp at WOT will burn somewhere in the 13 - 15 gal/hr range. Operating at really light throttle efficiency gets worse.

For comparison, diesels will generally produce 16 - 20 hp-hr per gallon with old Detroits and naturally aspirated small diesels being towards the worse end of that range and modern turbodiesels being towards the better end.


As far as service costs for engines and such, it's one of the reasons I don't like outboards or sterndrives. They're just not DIY-friendly enough and too much stuff is hard to do with the boat in the water. I'd prefer diesels in my boat for lower fuel consumption, but the current gas inboards are cheap enough to maintain, easy enough to work on, and reliable, so I can't complain too much. Fuel consumption at slow cruise is manageable, on plane it gets pretty expensive (so we spend far more time at 6.5 kts than 17 kts).

[MicHughV]

Most all big outboards are fuel injected these days, so that does not require much of anything maintenance wise.
On a typical service call for my 150's, the lower end is dropped and water impellor replaced, as are all filters, plugs, thermostats, etc, plus new engine oil off course and lube oil for the lower end..
It's pretty much an all day job to service both engines. I did it once with a friend of mine that is a mechanic to help and guide me. You pretty much need to know what you are doing, to do it correctly and need a place to dispose the old oil, etc.
The engines work hard. At cruise, they are running about 3,500 rpm, depending on sea state.
A single engine will get the boat (23' center cockpit) on plane, but only barely and only in smooth water.
When it's rough offshore, the engines have to work really hard to stay on plane.

I've been told the 150 yammies is one of the most reliable outboards out there. They work hard, that is for sure.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

...
Not to mention that 60K pickup truck if you're trailering and a storage yard if your local community doesn't like parking it in the driveway.

Truck prices are starting to move down, but they are still outrageously high. Most of the Toyota and Nissan trucks are over $60,000 and go up to $80,000ish, and I am not looking at Ford, GM or Dodge, which I have heard can be even more expensive.

0% financing is showing up but even a 5 year 0% loan can be a huge monthly payment. Repos are at high levels. I wonder why?

[MicHughV]

Who in their right mind would want to buy a new truck ?
100's of used models on the market.

I bought a used '21 Nissan Titan 4x4, powered by a 5.6 litre V8, paid $30K for it....only had 5,000 miles on it. Mint condition. I believe it was a repo.

A buddy of mine bought one of these new hybrid Tundra's, had to splash $80K some for it. Nuts !!

I shopped all the brands, as mentioned above, American brands can be quite pricey depending on level of trim, and a lot of them are now 6 cylinder turbo-ed engines, but I wanted a basic V8 model.
Gas consumption is off course a driver in selection, but across the board don't expect good gas mileage.

[Tortuga's Lie]

My wife and I are regular sailors, meaning we use our boat and go out on multiple day overnighters on the hook. We probably use out boat more than anyone else in a marina of over 130 slips, but the last month here on the Chesapeake has been unbelievably hot. We haven't been down to see her since we came back from a week cruise in early June. Sad.
I recently retired and have the flexibility of going down to the boat mid week to do some maintenance or to just chill, but it's even too hot for that, and we have two air conditioning units and a marina pool!!! When the "feel like" temperature is 105 degrees, it's just better to stay home.
Now, as far as rising costs, I can say that transient slip prices have increased over the years as well. You used to be able to get a slip for $1.50 to $2.25/ft but now, it's over $3/foot or more. I can get a decent hotel room for what it costs me. That's one reason for anchoring out as much as possible for sure.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Who in their right mind would want to buy a new truck ?...

Depending on the market, used trucks have been almost as much as new. The vehicle market has been, and continues to be, nuts. I have seen decades old trucks on sale for about what they cost when new. Prices are starting to fall but the car companies have greatly increased prices so the prices have a long way to go. The car company CEOs somehow think people can afford the high prices.

Given the inflation at all levels, I would suspect many boat owners can't afford to take the boat out much less keep up with maintenance. Our local lake was busy for the Fourth but I have seen it far busier.

[MicHughV]

There is simply no question, that boating in 2024 is not nearly as active as it has been in bygone years.
A myriad reasons for this, but the bottom line is clear. Not many people on the water these days.....all driving trucks these days....he hehe he.

Couldn't say why there has been a resurgence in truck buying, despite the cost. The number of trucks on the road these days is staggering. I think most all my male friends own a truck of one make or another. Car sales might be in the toilet, but not the case for trucks.

You'd think that with gas prices hovering around $3.50/gal, fuel consumption would be a factor, but does not seem to be the case.

I live adjacent to the ICW and have a clear view of boating traffic. No question, that boat traffic is a fraction of what it used to be. Sailboats are a rarity, and small fishing boats make up the remainder of what little else is out there. Marina's around here are 50% empty.

Begs the question, where did they all go ?

[dannc]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

... Not many people on the water these days.....all driving trucks these days....he hehe he.

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Couldn't say why there has been a resurgence in truck buying, despite the cost. The number of trucks on the road these days is staggering. I think most all my male friends own a truck of one make or another. Car sales might be in the toilet, but not the case for trucks....

The numbers I have seen say that the number of trucks being sold are to companies. Companies could, or would, not buy during and shortly after the pandemic, and when inventory increased, they bought. Most likely because their old trucks had been run into the ground keeping trucks running that would have been replaced during/after the pandemic.

After the commercial sales decline, which I think is happening since inventory is building up, the number of sales is going to drop. Which is happening.

For most people, boating is a hobby, entertainment, etc. If one needs to buy a new vehicle, and one has a limited budget, the boating with all of it's expenses is going to take a back seat.

People buy mini vans, trucks and SUVs because there are no, or very few, car models to choose from, and what exists, is really not for families. I just saw an old Chevy station wagon in the Netherlands that had to have been made in the 1970's or 1980's at the latest. The clown cars sold today don't get 'er done for a family like that old station wagon did.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie

My wife and I are regular sailors, meaning we use our boat and go out on multiple day overnighters on the hook. We probably use out boat more than anyone else in a marina of over 130 slips, but the last month here on the Chesapeake has been unbelievably hot. We haven't been down to see her since we came back from a week cruise in early June. Sad.
I recently retired and have the flexibility of going down to the boat mid week to do some maintenance or to just chill, but it's even too hot for that, and we have two air conditioning units and a marina pool!!! When the "feel like" temperature is 105 degrees, it's just better to stay home.
Now, as far as rising costs, I can say that transient slip prices have increased over the years as well. You used to be able to get a slip for $1.50 to $2.25/ft but now, it's over $3/foot or more. I can get a decent hotel room for what it costs me. That's one reason for anchoring out as much as possible for sure.

We've had the high temps in the mid 90's or so as well here on the lower Chesapeake but are sailing anyway.

Once you get out of the Creek, it's not too bad.

I don't have a bimini either but use Suntan lotion and try to sail earlier in the day if the wind is up.

A few of us sailed for 9 hours a couple weekends back. The objective was the Chesapeake Light which is about a 45-mile round trip plus tacks if necessary out into the Atlantic.

I got a late start, and the wind was wrong after I cleared Cape Henry, so I sailed out about 15 more miles into the ocean since I was out there, came back in under the North section of the CBBT, then sailed the 20 miles home since the wind was about 20 knots by then. 45-50 miles sailed in all.

One guy that started early sailed to the light. He was sailing a 36' boat fin keel with nice bimini. Another returned to the marina since the wife wasn't feeling well.

I was North of the light but offshore about the same distance. Beautiful day out there, but a lot warmer closer to shore and hotter still once into Little Creek.

It was a long day though

[MicHughV]

A bubba wouldn't be seen dead in a minivan or SUV or anything else besides his full sized truck, just wouldn't happen.

The modern day truck is very versatile. Most all are the four door variety, and the bed is available to cart around most anything you want, etc. Most interiors sport the latest in big screen GPS and other electronic gimmickry.

Some of our area beaches allow vehicles on the beach, and on a weekend it will be trucks as far as the the eye can see. Every make and model is to be seen there, most all a 4x4 variant. It's a "thing" for sure.

I dare say a lot of boaters have traded in their boat for a truck. Consider it a land yacht