New York Bight - Wind Energy Areas at Sea

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by DaveKurtz

What the heck are we doing here, folks?!? Who wants to navigate a wind farm at night? Or in a dense fog? And no one...No One wants to talk about the bird kill that occurs with wind farms. On land-based turbines most, if not all, are fenced off so that no one can view the bird kill population. At sea, the birds conveniently wash away.

As I stated before, the Europeans/UK lot seem to survive it, your problem would be?
Best wishes from the far North.

[Montanan]

I have never seen a wind farm that has fencing. There may be fencing near a substation but not around the towers. Most land based wind farms are in agricultural areas, with fields of row crops, or grain or corn or are on ranching lands. Ranches have perimeter and cross fencing to contain their animals, simple four or five strands of barbed wire.

Some wind farms have been established along migratory flyways. It is typical that those turbines be stopped during the migratory period which is very predictable as to the flight path and the time of year.

Other man made structures are causative of significant numbers of bird deaths, but domestic and feral cats are the primary predator.

As to navigation, the main transit fairways are very wide so as to handle large volumes of commercial shipping and small craft can readily transit through all of the towers as they are individually far apart and well lighted and provide for a solid radar return. They don't move about and are well charted.

The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM) is responsible under the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act (43 U.S.C. § 1337(p)(4)(A)) and its implementing regulations(30 CFR part 585) for ensuring that activities on Federal renewable energy leases are carried out in a manner
that provides for safety and protection of the environment.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the United States Coast Guard (USCG) both have regulatory requirements for the lighting and marking of offshore structures.

For structures more than 200 ft (61 m) in height above the sea surface and within 12 nm(22.2 km) from shore, a lessee must file a Notice of Proposed Construction or Alteration with the FAA per Federal aviation regulations.

Offshore wind lessees are also required by USCG to obtain a permit for private aids to navigation (PATONs), which USCG defines to cover all structures located in or near navigable waters of the United States (see 33 CFR part 66). PATON regulations require individuals or organizations to
mark privately owned marine obstructions or other similar hazards. The USCG’s marking requirements are found in 33 CFR Part 64. Unlike FAA regulations, PATON requirements apply beyond the 12 nm (22.2 km) territorial sea boundary. BOEM will include as a condition of plan
approval for SAPs, COPs, and GAPs a requirement that lessees submit a copy of any PATON applications to BOEM. USCG has also informed BOEM that it requires meteorological towers and/or buoys to be displayed on the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration nautical charts. The USCG Aids to Navigation Manual established requirements for offshore wind facilities in Chapter 4, Section G.

Reference link to Aids to Navigation Manual: Page 4-36

https://media.defense.gov/2017/Jul/2...M_16500_7A.PDF

9. Wind farms. Wind farms should be marked as a single unit or as a block as
follows:
a. The tower of every wind generator should be painted yellow all around
from the level of Highest Astronomical Tide (HAT) to 50 feet (15 meters)
or at least the height of the Aid to Navigation, if fitted, whichever is
greater. Retro reflective material must also be used.
b. Due to the increased danger posed by an isolated structure, it should be
lighted as an Offshore Structure, in accordance with 33 CFR 67.
c. A Significant Peripheral Structure (SPS) is the “corner” or other
significant point on the periphery of the wind farm. Every individual
SPS should be marked by sufficient lights so as to be visible to the
mariner from all relevant directions in the horizontal plane. Such lights
should display the character of a special mark with an operational range
of not less than four nautical miles. As a minimum, lights on individual
SPSs should be synchronized, but District Commanders may require all
SPSs to be synchronized.
d. In the case of a large or extended wind farm, the distance between SPSs
should not normally exceed 3 nautical miles.
e. Selected intermediate structures on the periphery of a wind farm other
than the SPSs in (c) and (d) above, should be marked with flashing yellow
lights which are visible to the mariner from all relevant directions in the
horizontal plane. The flash character of such lights should be distinctly
different from those displayed on the SPSs with an operational range of
not less than two (2) nautical miles. The lateral distance between such
lighted structures or the nearest SPS should not exceed two (2) nautical
miles.
f. Depending on the lateral separation of individual turbines, the District
Commander may require each turbine within a wind farm to be lighted.
Depending on the marking and lighting of the peripheral structures, the
additional marking of the individual structures within a wind farm
should be considered as follows:
(1) Unlit.
(2) Unlit with retro-reflective areas.
(3) Down lighting floodlights on ladders and access platforms.
(4) Flashing yellow lights with an operational range of not less than 2
nautical miles.
(5) Lit/unlit identifying numbers or names for each unit.
g. The Aids to Navigation on the structure of a wind generator should be
mounted below the lowest point of the arc of the rotor blades. They
should be exhibited at a height above the level of the Highest
Astronomical Tide (HAT) of not less than 20 ft (6 meters) nor more than
50 feet (15 meters).
h. The Aids to Navigation described herein should have an availability of
not less than 99.0 %.
i. A wind farm may be additionally marked by Racon(s).
j. Consideration should be given to the additional use of radar reflectors
and radar target enhancers.
k. Consideration should be given to the provision of sound signals where
appropriate, given prevailing conditions of visibility, topography and
vessel traffic.
l. An electrical transformer station or a meteorological or wind measuring
mast, if considered to be a composite part of the wind farm, should be
included as part of the overall wind farm marking. If not considered to be
within the wind farm block it should be marked as an offshore structure,
in accordance with 33 CFR 67.
m. As far as practicable, Aeronautical obstruction lights fitted to the tops of
wind turbines should not be visible below the horizontal plane of these
lights. Aviation authorities should be consulted regarding the
specification of such lights.

Image links to wind farms. Note the lack of fencing.

https://www.grinningcheektocheek.com.../wind-farm.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ornia_2016.jpg

https://medicine.wustl.edu/wp-conten...es-700x467.jpg

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by MikeRyan

Well, I'm all for renewable power, as it is called. But I remember the 'Texas Towers' that were once out there, supporting the ADIZ (Air Defense Identification Zone) back in the 50's and 60's. The military though they would stand forever.
All gone now. The Ocean is a harsh mistress...

I suppose the lesson here, is that we should only build stone pyramids.
As for the Texas Towers ➥ https://www.newenglandhistoricalsoci...as-tower-no-4/

[JBsurfin]

Yes, lets not discuss the 600K birds killed each year due to wind farms in the US alone.. Or the massive water and land pollution occurring in mining "rare earth" to make magnets..

[rsementi]

I will bet anyone here that these wind farms if built will:

1. Cost at least 2x the cost they are quoting, if not more.
2. The “net” amount of actually consumed electricity, will be less than 1% of the energy produced by the nearby grids. They may have high peaks of energy such as during a windy storm, but it will be bled off the grid unusable.

Anyone want to bet me in this?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

Yes, lets not discuss the 600K birds killed each year due to wind farms in the US alone...

We just did, not 3 hours ago.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3381187

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by rsementi

I will bet anyone here that these wind farms if built will:

1. Cost at least 2x the cost they are quoting, if not more.
2. The “net” amount of actually consumed electricity, will be less than 1% of the energy produced by the nearby grids. They may have high peaks of energy such as during a windy storm, but it will be bled off the grid unusable.

Anyone want to bet me in this?

Reference the report linked here.
ELECTRICITY GENERATION COSTS 2020

https://assets.publishing.service.go...eport-2020.pdf


You would be betting against the wind!

For offshore wind, in keeping with the rapid pace of developments in offshore wind technology, we have assumed that the £/MW capital and operating costs decrease over time with the size of the turbine due to economies of scale. Updates to plant lifetimes and learning rates were also made.
There are significant differences of opinion over future turbine sizes; some stakeholders are predicting 20MW turbines as early as 2030, while others doubt the feasibility of such large turbines. Our estimates (shown in table 2.3) represent a balanced consideration of multiple internal and external views.
Load factors (expected annual generation as a percentage of theoretical maximum generation) were also modelled to increase with turbine size. Larger turbines are expected to produce higher load factors for several reasons, most importantly that larger turbines can access higher winds due to their increased height, and that a wind farm with fewer, larger turbines has increased efficiency. Detailed discussion of these relationships is found in a recent report for BEIS by DNV GL Energy7
. Future load factors were calculated by combining a theoretical turbine power curve (power output as a function of wind speed, modelled using
turbine specifications provided by manufacturers) with hourly wind speed data from existing offshore wind sites. Load factor assumptions are also shown in table 2.3.
Updated cost assumptions for offshore wind are shown in table 2.4.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Hoodsail

Dave, Dave, Dave; I've navigated by the Block Island offshore wind farm at nite....well lit...no big deal....never fog & dont have radar but I do have charts so shouldnt be a biggie...would think on land are fenced off so noone breaks into and climbs to the top to view the world and fall off. Blades turn so slowly, at least the ones in Massachusetts (on the way to the Cape), that the bird would have to be sightless, inebriated, and deaf to be whacked by one! anyway, arent you in Detroit?! thnks Dave

[Seabeau]

The much heralded German version of the Green New Deal, also ushered in some of the highest electrical rates in Europe , per Forbes Mag.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

The much heralded German version of the Green New Deal, also ushered in some of the highest electrical rates in Europe , per Forbes Mag.

I read years ago that it cost .35ish USD per kilowatt hour in Germany. Our cost at that time was around .10-.11 USD per kilowatt hour. I was shocked that the German price for power was three times what we pay.

Our cost includes all taxes and fees too.

Later,
Dan

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Seabeau

The much heralded German version of the Green New Deal, also ushered in some of the highest electrical rates in Europe , per Forbes Mag.

Originally Posted by dannc

I read years ago that it cost .35ish USD per kilowatt hour in Germany. Our cost at that time was around .10-.11 USD per kilowatt hour. I was shocked that the German price for power was three times what we pay.

Our cost includes all taxes and fees too.

Later,
Dan

https://strom-report.de/electricity-prices-europe/

Why are electricity prices so different in Europe?

The energy prices in the EU depend on a range of factors, including the geopolitical location, taxation, network charges or environmental protection costs.

The prices for electricity procurement and supply [network costs] have remained stable in Europe over the past 10 years. The average rose from 12.3 cents per kWh in 2010 to currently 12.7 cents.

Taxes and levies make the biggest difference. Their share climbed steadily, from 25.6% in 2011 to 40,3% in 2020. These values vary greatly from one country to another, with rates as high as 66% in Denmark and 53% in Germany. The lowest taxes [3.4%] are paid in the Netherlands due to a refund policy. Malta is also at the lower end of the tax scale, paying only a tax premium of 6%.

The VAT average in the EU is 15.5 % of the total price and ranges from 4.8 % in Malta to 21.2 % in Hungary.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Montanan

...
Taxes and levies make the biggest difference. Their share climbed steadily, from 25.6% in 2011 to 40,3% in 2020. ...

As I said, I include the taxes and fees in what I pay for power. I have no choice to pay said taxes and fees to by the power, so that is the cost of the power. The Germans were, and I assume still are, paying three times as much for power as I see on my power bill, for whatever reason. It costs, what it costs.

Later,
Dan

[Hoodsail]

Montanan and Gord....where do you find this information so quickly? Appreciate the links and data....But all this discussion of wind farms makes me want to go out sailing to give them a closer look...counting the weeks til launch...thnks

[Cadence]

This whole thing seem totally academic until someone is willing to invest into it. ConEd, for example, is probably happy with there ancient infrastructure. As far as the cons go, I doubt many recreational boaters venture that far off shore and those that do are probably sport fisherman not 6 knot day sailors.

[Seabeau]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Comparative Levelized Cost of Electrical Energy

Source Attribution: International Energy Agency IEA Projected Costs of Generating Electricity 2020
Fuel report — December 2020 All rights reserved.

https://www.iea.org/reports/projecte...ectricity-2020

Copied here under their use by attribution terms:

Note that off shore wind power cost has declined considerably from about US$200 megawatt hour to about $150 per megawatt hour in the last five years and is expected to decline considerably yet again in the near term. The technology is gaining its legs and as it scales in volume the cost of manufacturing drop dramatically. Coal and combined cycle natural gas plants are mature technologies there is not much room for reducing their costs and with a carbon emissions costs escalating they wil become ever more expensive and simply mandated to shutter.

The first graph is data aggregated from 24 countries.

I also believe that this data also shows that nuclear to be the least expensive low carbon pwr. source save for water power, per kwh.