Norwegian sailboat - Cuba to Miami - with US citizen

[Boatguy30]

There are always plenty of American there, very few legally.

Cuban-Americans are the most over represented nationality/immigrant group in Congress so progress on this will be VERY slow. Not the OPs problem of course, but a sad reality.

[sec906]

Check out this article: Caution when Entering the USA from Cuba

[cheoah]

I travel to Cuba on a license for a few weeks each year for work. Cuba does require a visa for US travelers. Licensed travelers get their visa through their travel provider to Cuba, like Marazul - who also runs the charter flights out of Miami.

Unlicensed US travelers get their permit from the airline in Bahamas or MExico, and some people get them in Cuba I'm sure, especially people who lose them. Losing your visa is a pain, I've seen it happen. They stamp the visa in lieu of the passport upon entry, taking half of the perforated visa and stamping the other - which you then slip away in your passport or somewhere safe. When exiting, you pay an exit tax of 25 CUC and they take the other half. The Visa is $25 I think. Thats neither here nor there for re-entry to US, since you don't leave with a visa or a stamp.

Having spent a good bit of time in Cuba, I will say that the one thing that is constant, is that things are always changing in Cuba and with Cuba related travel (US policies have also changed some) and experiences can vary from place to place, and person to person.

Commercial shipping also has that same limitation, they must call on another port before the US after Cuba.

travel to Cuba for US citizens and international sailors calling on US ports after Cuba is indeed still very confusing, and US/Cuba relations are poor.

[BandB]

One other factor in this. While it generally is held that a Norwegian vessel could enter the US, issues are encountered especially with Key West. However, your risk of problems would be greatly increased if you were carrying a US citizen who the authorities concluded couldn't legally enter. Suddenly you are caught in his "crime." You are now facing the potential of being considered to be illegally transporting him.

Ultimately you might find as might the citizen that given time the law would say you're ok. But getting to that point could be very stressful and costly. You're taking a chance. Even if the best lawyer were to advise he'd be ok to enter, which I doubt one would, it's still dependent on the inspector you face on that day. Being able to ultimately win doesn't undo all that you endure getting there.

This is a gray area and getting involved in the gray areas of law and immigration is never really advisable.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by cheoah

I travel to Cuba on a license for a few weeks each year for work. Cuba does require a visa for US travelers. Licensed travelers get their visa through their travel provider to Cuba, like Marazul - who also runs the charter flights out of Miami.

Unlicensed US travelers get their permit from the airline in Bahamas or MExico, and some people get them in Cuba I'm sure, especially people who lose them. Losing your visa is a pain, I've seen it happen. They stamp the visa in lieu of the passport upon entry, taking half of the perforated visa and stamping the other - which you then slip away in your passport or somewhere safe. When exiting, you pay an exit tax of 25 CUC and they take the other half. The Visa is $25 I think. Thats neither here nor there for re-entry to US, since you don't leave with a visa or a stamp.

Having spent a good bit of time in Cuba, I will say that the one thing that is constant, is that things are always changing in Cuba and with Cuba related travel (US policies have also changed some) and experiences can vary from place to place, and person to person.

Commercial shipping also has that same limitation, they must call on another port before the US after Cuba.

travel to Cuba for US citizens and international sailors calling on US ports after Cuba is indeed still very confusing, and US/Cuba relations are poor.

Isn't it still illegal to bring back the cigars? I had a friend go on some type of cultural jazz music exchange when Bush was president. He had a permit of some sort, but that they tried to bust him on was when he declared the cigars returning from Toronto to Chicago. Not sure what happened but they thru major charges like 100k at him. Really made his life hell. Was around 2002 or so.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Miniyot

I for one would never rely on what someone else says.

I especially would not rely on legal advice from someone who is not a lawyer. Moreover, much as I admire and respect Nigel Calder, I don't think he understands the meaning of prima facie in a legal context.

[Canibul]

I'm finding it real hard to just accept that the US government can tell me where I can and cannot go on this planet just because I was born on a specific spot. Contrary to what they would like us all to just believe, Washington DC does not own the earth.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Canibul

I'm finding it real hard to just accept that the US government can tell me where I can and cannot go on this planet just because I was born on a specific spot.

You're welcome to renounce your U.S. citizenship if you'd like. Then you can leave and no one in Washington will try to tell you anything. Of course, that also means that if you want to come back, and stay for more than a couple of months, or work in the U.S., you will have to get all the same visas and permits as any other non-citizen.

It's your choice.

[cheoah]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Isn't it still illegal to bring back the cigars? I had a friend go on some type of cultural jazz music exchange when Bush was president. He had a permit of some sort, but that they tried to bust him on was when he declared the cigars returning from Toronto to Chicago. Not sure what happened but they thru major charges like 100k at him. Really made his life hell. Was around 2002 or so.

Hey Boatguy, It's illegal to bring cigars back from Cuba. I know for a fact that many people bring some back, a few, or up to a box just being naive about it. There are stiff penalties to back it up, but the most common penalty is they cut them up or shred them.

I've been to the Festival de Habano, their annual cigar festival. It was a good time, with sessions on how to pair cigars with booze, a trade show, and of course great cigars. A lady rolled me one and just handed it to me, and I smoked it immediately.

[MBLittle]

Not sure why people think it's illegal for a US citizen to travel to or from Cuba. Matter of fact, it's not. Its an economic embargo, not a travel embargo.

If a US citizen happened to be on a foreign flagged boat and that crew told customs that the American didn't spend a penny in Cuba, there is exactly squat any law agency in the US could do.

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[FSMike]

Originally Posted by MBLittle

----
If a US citizen happened to be on a foreign flagged boat and that crew told customs that the American didn't spend a penny in Cuba, there is exactly squat any law agency in the US could do.
----

Strongly worded, but I agree.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by MBLittle

If a US citizen happened to be on a foreign flagged boat and that crew told customs that the American didn't spend a penny in Cuba, there is exactly squat any law agency in the US could do.

You are wrong. Once again, take a look at the laws. Try to understand what the words prima facie mean in a legal context. The very fact that an American spends more than 4 hours in Cuba is all the proof that the State Department needs to "prove" that you spent money there.

Is it REAL proof, in a scientific sense? No, of course not. But it most certainly IS proof in a legal sense. All the proof they need to convict you.

[MBLittle]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You are wrong. Once again, take a look at the laws. Try to understand what the words prima facie mean in a legal context. The very fact that an American spends more than 4 hours in Cuba is all the proof that the State Department needs to "prove" that you spent money there.

Is it REAL proof, in a scientific sense? No, of course not. But it most certainly IS proof in a legal sense. All the proof they need to convict you.

Please point me to any two cases in which this actually happened in the last 5 year's where there was ZERO physical evidence of money spent in Cuba.

The State Department has no desire to prosecute and try a conviction for something that a vast majority of Americans think is ridiculous.

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[denverd0n]

Whether or not anyone has been prosecuted in the last five years has no bearing whatsoever on what the law says. I already said, more than once, that the odds of getting caught are quite small. That doesn't make it impossible to get caught, or to get prosecuted.

[MBLittle]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Whether or not anyone has been prosecuted in the last five years has no bearing whatsoever on what the law says. I already said, more than once, that the odds of getting caught are quite small. That doesn't make it impossible to get caught, or to get prosecuted.

Seems to me, what with 2 states legalizing recreational marijuana despite federal laws, that the realities of the world at hand far outweigh a dusty old law that hasn't actually been used in court in at least a decade.

Remember, most Americans think it's ridiculous
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cub.../11/id/552103/

Political suicide for the party in the white house (which ever party) if the state department were to prosecute some person on a foreign sailboat for visiting Cuba without physical proof of spending a dime.

If Jay-z and Beyonce can travel to Cuba and the next week be singing the president happy birthday, that should tell you the DoS and DoJ have absolutely no interest in going after anyone.

Some states still have laws on the books that women can't wear pants. Come on man, open your eyes before you warn every woman that they could get caught.

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