Sailing from the US to Europe right now. What do you think about the timing?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by fatherchronica

That they made it to the Atlantic in the Northern hemisphere from the far side of the Pacific in the Southern hemisphere indicates to me they have more experience than most of the folks on Cruisers Forum will ever have. More than I have to be sure. I often wonder how the Earth was ever explored when I read the attacks on sailors on this forum. As we all know a nice fire and a comfy chair and a well read copy of a book about day sailing in a lake is the safest way to voyage.

I've sailed as far as them and although I'm not familiar with that ocean I personally feel they are being foolish, its unnecessary to travel now, wait for a better time in the first half of next year as many heading from the carribean so, they were in the Bahamas, right?

I wish them good luck but question their motives. I doubt they have seen in their previous travels the potential conditions they may experience on this passage.

A big part of seamanship is to fear the ocean enough to not take chances.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

Good info. Thanks.

Here's one lad who is from Norway and is planning such a trip. At the 23:30 mark he shows the circumnavigation of the very north Atlantic he is planning. Throughout the video he occasionally has some footage of conditions up north.

Oops. It seems I left out the link. Sorry about that. Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJBHr3_vpPc&t=1429s

[alansmith]

Heh, I got an idea for you. Go on YouTube and watch merchant ships or military ships fight gales in the North Atlantic. That is pretty sobering evidence that you gotta be nuts to cross this late in the season.

Another thing... it was less than a month ago that national weather services announced that they had never seen a hurricane that Far East in the Atlantic that late in the season. I pray to God that this boat will not suffer catastrophic storms. This young girl refuses to fly in airplanes due to emissions from jet engines. She was contacted by a yachtsman and accepted his offer. Nice Cat. Wish them well.

[Travelaxel]

Hi Franziska,
I checked the weather and it is as good as it gets right now. I crossed the Atlantic in June from Bermuda and I had winds up to 50 knots and 10 m waves. That can happen all the time. The question is, why would you want to do it this time of the year? Sailing the Med or the North sea? It can be done but who would want to do that? Sailing Greta across to Spain to promote your YouTube channel might be worth it, and the way back to the Caribbean is easy then.

[psp2psp2]

What do I think about a November - December west to east crossing of the N Atlantic? In the words of the famous delta blues song, "Baby please don't go!"

I have crossed the Atlantic four times, including one passage at high latitudes, but all these voyages have been confined to either the window between the end of winter and the onset of hurricane season, or a December east to west crossing in the NE trades around lat 13N. Nevertheless, I feel somewhat qualified to answer your query.

Even breaking the voyage down into three legs with the possibility of refuge in Bermuda and The Azores, ON EACH LEG you are likely to get beaten up by a northerly storm that will spin down from northern Canada, across the NE USA and come looking for you.

If these two attachments work I think you'll find them interesting,

https://www.dropbox.com/s/02zrn2ej2c...c%202.JPG?dl=0

and

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lj3jqlc0bh...c%201.JPG?dl=0

I snapped these photos from the ATLANTIC PILOT, which contains the accumulated weather observations from a couple of hundred years of seafaring. The page shows North Atlantic Weather for November. (This book is always in my chart table.)

If you're unfamiliar with the notations, each stroke on the blue wind direction arrow represents 1 on the Beaufort scale. And remember, these values are all averages, you are likely to experience faster winds and greater wave heights.

The red number in the bottom left of each square is the percentage of gales in that square in November. The number in the red contour line indicates the percentage of waves over 4m. The blue number is the percentage of calms.

I'm not saying that a crossing at this time of year is an impossibility. And some people get lucky and have a lively but manageable trans-Atlantic in November. But why risk it?

AGE OF SAIL - Home

[Breaking Waves]

It rather depends on where in Europe you have to make landfall, and your willingness to either sail in very light winds or to motor, and your weather routing chops.

If your destination is say Gibraltar, it is quite possible to have a decent passage. Sure you will get a couple fronts, but that is ocean sailing. You do need to pick a good window to get off the east coast, and do need to stay low just clear over the center of the high.

If your destination is like Ireland, yea, it will probably get ugly a couple times.

[TheThunderbird]

Time ago l posed a question, whether the North Atlantic crossing was a viable/usual COMMERCIAL route to big ships in wintertime. No answer.
Any professional shipmen out there available to answer?

AIS maritime traffic charts cover ships up to 45°N latitude.

I believe it is quite hard on a well maintained cargo ship or tanker.
No doubt it is a call for trouble in any leisure vessel, whatever good/qualified is its manship

[Franziska]

Thanks, it wasn't actually concerning myself but some friends of mine who where considering returning to Europe.

Luckily they decided for not casting off.

This whole Greta thing is happening coincidentally at the same moment. Apparently they left, hopefully they have a save trip.

Other than the above, personally I felt the same about the timing as you. Bad idea right now, even though it looks alright momentarily.

Originally Posted by Travelaxel

Hi Franziska,
I checked the weather and it is as good as it gets right now. I crossed the Atlantic in June from Bermuda and I had winds up to 50 knots and 10 m waves. That can happen all the time. The question is, why would you want to do it this time of the year? Sailing the Med or the North sea? It can be done but who would want to do that? Sailing Greta across to Spain to promote your YouTube channel might be worth it, and the way back to the Caribbean is easy then.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

whether the North Atlantic crossing was a viable/usual COMMERCIAL route to big ships in wintertime.

well, here is a marine traffic pic from today . . . . certainly seems 'viable'



and for a passage to Gibraltar the weather picture is actually pretty decent. Probably a frontal passage mid-ocean and another near the 'Portuguese trades'. But stay around 35 N, and nothing too severe.

[Franziska]

Not a lot of pink up north heading W-E. Pink=Pleasure craft.
To do things because others do things is also a bit questionable, isn't it?
Lemmings do the same (if that's not a myth.)

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Not a lot of pink up north heading W-E. Pink=Pleasure craft.
To do things because others do things is also a bit questionable, isn't it?
Lemmings do the same (if that's not a myth.)

The question I was directly answering was whether it was 'viable' for commercial vessels. That question would seem to be directly answered by the picture I posted.

As to pleasure craft . . . . it is not uncommon for delivery's repositioning to the Med. I've personally done it in November twice.

Many people's experience with the west to east crossing is further north, above the Azores. You can get severe weather there even in the summer with little way to duck it, and I would want a good vessel and strong crew to do it in November. The lower route, below like 38, is different.

[CarinaPDX]

There is a reason that the North Atlantic in winter has its own Plimsoll (load) line, and that it is the lowest (lightest loading). Commercial shipping crosses the North Atlantic throughout the year but must restrict its loading during the winter in order to safely handle the conditions.

Greg

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

There is a reason that the North Atlantic in winter has its own Plimsoll (load) line, and that it is the lowest (lightest loading). Commercial shipping crosses the North Atlantic throughout the year but must restrict its loading during the winter in order to safely handle the conditions.

Greg

sure, absolutely,

and do you know the southern limit of applicability for the north Atlantic winter line?

It is "above 36 degrees of latitude" (it is slanted - the western boundary of the zone is from 45n and up)

And you will note that I have very explicitly commented/called out routing at 35 degrees as reasonable here.

[CarinaPDX]

@Breaking Waves: My post was not a response to yours, but if you are feeling defensive...

I don't think anyone is questioning the safety of a low-latitude crossing, although clawing east had better be done before the trade winds build or it will be a long slog. The original question was about getting to Europe, and even Gibraltar is north of 35°, albeit just. And Gibraltar can sometimes get some pretty nasty weather in the winter even at that low latitude (I know - I spent a winter there). The WNA Plimsoll line may not apply to entering the Med, but the point remains: the North Atlantic in the winter is a uniquely bad place to be, worthy of its own lower load limits for large commercial vessels. It should be taken seriously, even at 35°.

Greg

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

It should be taken seriously,

Sure, absolutely.

Any full ocean crossing should be taken seriously - anytime, any latitude.

My point was that this one is not completely unreasonable, nor unheard of. It could be cold in parts and they will hit (at least) two fronts, but it is not something a well prepared boat would necessarily say “no way” to.