A new adventure begins.

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by SuttonCS

It's been a year and I read this adventure again. I wish I hadn't. I understand that many of you disapprove of my choices, but the righteous indignation with which some of you condemn is nonsense. I haven't hurt any of you, considering the sailboat was relatively quickly recovered and moved to salvage before leaking fluids or breaking up, I also didn't significantly damage the environment.

What I did was get into a situation for which I did not have the skills or frankly the courage to face. I would suggest that until you have faced a similar situation where you are very aware of your own mortality and have found yourself to be significantly insufficient in a multitude of ways, that you probably lack the empathy to even comment on the behavior of those that have.

Calling me a millennial is just silly, I'm nearly forty. Making personal attacks on my elderly father for joining me or any other such nonsense is silly. Deciding I was rash, impetuous or any other number of adjectives is a judgement call you are welcome to make, but I'm past caring what internet strangers think of my behavior.

The reality is I made a mistake. That mistake had financial and probably psychological consequences. I paid those consequences, not any of you. Without adventure life becomes stale. I will sail again. Here's hoping I do better next time.

I wish you a lot of luck, and, without question, you've learned a lot from going through it. I think most of the negative comments stemmed from the boat being wrecked on the beach, and the possible damages and costs imposed on other people that stem from that. Everyone deserves a 2nd and 3rd chance, and we've ALL made major screw-ups from time to time - whether we admit it to ourselves or not. The fact that you've come back to this thread proves you're not any sort of jerk, and I'd be happy to sail with you. On the one side, you've got a great story that you'll remember the rest of your life, and you certainly can't be accused of being a couch potato. On the other side, life goes on, and you might wind up completing a circumnavigation one day - that's the beauty of life. You can do anything you decide - Good luck.

[GrowleyMonster]

Okay then, MacArthur.


Well, if you are going to sail again, leave as little to hope and to luck as possible. Both hope and luck have a way of deserting you at the most inconvenient moments. Or fail to completely protect you from your own folly.



You were right... figuring out how to sail a sailboat doesn't take long at all. Possibly simpler than figuring out how to make a motor boat go. The trick is not in learning how to make the boat go, and go in the direction you want. The trick is knowing all the other stuff. Like where to go or how to get there in one piece and return likewise and where not to go, and why.



Your baptism by fire is not merely a mark of shame. It is also a resource to draw upon. IOW a lesson learned, and a tempering of the adventurelust. Who knows? You might turn into a pretty good sailor. Or maybe not. Anyway, now you know that usually your boat can take more than you can take, and near land is sometimes the place where you do NOT want to be. So you are a lot wiser than you once were. Practically and old salt, huh? If you disagree with that last, then you are even MORE wiser.



What are your plans for educating yourself? For gaining experience? Yeah you got a lot of experience in a very very short amount of time, but you need a bit more. Given any thought to that? How many books have you read relevant to your sailing interests? Can you pick your favorite 5 or 6? 3 or 4? There are lots of great books out there on diesels, electrical, weather, navigation, rigging, storm tactics, cruising in general, boat handling, safety, maintenance, and lots more topics. If you spend one percent of what you likely paid for your last boat on books before buying your next boat, you will likely have a nice collection to start with. BORING BUT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY: Rules Of The Road. Not just hard copy of the Rules, but studies, commentary, application. You NEED NEED NEED an encyclopedic knowledge of the Rules. You would not believe how important this is.



You are gonna get a lot of preaching here. Well, now you know that you should give it all a good listen and plenty of thought and consideration. Some of the members here just like to run off at the mouth and show how superior they are by showing how inferior you are. LOL! Still there are germs of wisdom amidst the spew of selfrighteousness and condescension. Plenty others actually do mean well and are not just brushing up their own ego. Some know what they are talking about. Some are expert. Some, not so much. But take help where you find it. Don't get your nickers in a twist just because someone seems to be disrespecting you. USE what you read regardless of the motivation of the poster. You get the last laugh, right?



But, this is the internet. Tuning your BS filter just so, so you get the good stuff and ignore the useless or harmful, can be difficult. So do consider some formal learning. The USCG Power Squadron course is a fine beginning. It may seem really dumbed down to you, having already bought a boat and wrecked and lived to tell the tale, but be of open mind. You will learn, unlearn, and relearn a lot of stuff. Your nearest sailing club is a good resource, too. Dinghy racing is a lot of fun and not so expensive to get started in. What does dinghy racing have to do with cruising? I don't know... what does pedaling a tricycle have to do with winning the Tour de France? Anyway like I said, it can be a lot of fun for not much coin. An older sailing dink, when you tire of it if you do, can often be sold for what you paid for it if you keep it in good shape. It has already depreciated about as much as it can. Most importantly it puts you in a social circle of sailors and sailing. You may find your local club offers classes. That will get you out there in organized races a lot quicker. And surprise... the asshats you meet online, they are members of the sailing club, too. But there are also plenty of great folks who will notice, when you tolerate the more abusive blowhard members with patience, and will be happy to give you genuine help.



So you are SURE you don't want to piddle around in a dinghy? You HAVE to do it on your own? A trailer sailer, especially an older one, like the dinghy will cost peanuts and you won't lose much on the exchange when and if you decide to sell it. No marina fees! Park it at your house, work on it there on the hard, launch it at your local ramp when you want to go sail. A new 4HP Tohatsu is a cheap way to push your trailer queen back to the ramp if the wind stops cooperating. Daysailer? Overnighter? Up to you. Either way you have a small boat ideal for inshore and inland waters that you can keep safely out of harms way until you get a glorious weekend with great weather forecast and maybe an experienced volunteer crew to give you pointers and buy the beer when you get back in. If you can't stand the thought of taking classes and having some know-it-all telling you this and that, then your trailer sailer, with proper safety equipment, is at least a not so bad platform for self learning. I still like the dinghy first, but hey, I can only lead you to the water, not make you sail on it.


ASA schooling is GOOD. Yes there are times when your patience and forebearance will be sorely tried. But you get a good basic education and papers to show it. Your insurance company will take note. Charter firms will consider you capable and worth the risk of chartering a boat to you for that glorious week in the Caribbean that you are likely dreaming of. No, I did not go that route, but I have never heard ANYBODY saying that they regret taking ANY ASA course.



Crewing on a race boat will also get you into that circle of sailors that you really need to be a part of while you are starting out. The contacts that you make will be way more valuable than you probably realize now. For advice, tips on boats for sale, used gear, rallies and regattas, advice on best local marinas, best destinations, and other stuff. Getting a spot on a boat can be surprisingly easy. Yeah there will be an ******* or two, maybe, who knows. Deal with it. A little humility, even false humility, goes a long way. The important thing is you will be learning stuff and surrounding yourself with people who can help you get started. You will learn a lot and get time under sail.



One last tip, if you are going to start again with a cruising boat. Pick your marina. Then buy a boat that is already there, with a transferable slip. Don't buy a "ready to sail away" boat 500 miles from home and count on sailing it back. Get your boat locally and get the slip it is in, too. Then there is no pressure to move it except maybe to the pump out station when the tank is full. Learn on your own time. Sail when it is convenient and you have a crew if desired or needed. Take the boat out for two or three hours, get used to it. Do it every weekend. Go out when it is calm, go out when it is blowing great bearded whitecaps. Learn gradually to face more demanding conditions. Then start making some passages. Keep an open mind. Think before you leave the dock. Plan. Provision. Prepare. Don't try to do it all in a month or a week or a weekend.



Honestly, I am kind of neutral on whether you should try again, or not. As I recall, you were given a good deal of good advice and chose to ignore it before sailing away. Your choice, yeah. So the question I have for you to ask yourself, is "Did you learn to listen to people who know what they are talking about?". Or will you do your own thing because you know better and it is your decision? Yes, if you had taken the ICW you would have spent a lot of money on fuel. Unfortunately spending money you would rather not spend is sometimes an integral part of messing about in boats. The cheapest way is sometimes a good way, sometimes a not so good way, sometimes a very very sucky way. Patience and taking time to study first can save you a lot of grief. Have you done much of that since your mishap? You sure didn't do much of that beforehand. Don't think of another boat as a rematch between you and the sea, or the answer to all of the posts putting you down for the things you did or didn't do. Don't go there at all. But if you think you learned something that is even more fundamental than how to safely operate a sailboat, then you are likely better equipped mentally for being an owner and a skipper of a yacht or rather, a student on the path. I hope you think about it most carefully.

[SuttonCS]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Well, its was poor decision making, but regarding your ultimate choise of actions I agree...you never know how you will respond until you are actually in that situation...never say "I would never..." as you just dont know for sure.

Regarding "hoping" to do better, that won't get you there...better thought out actions will...so what's your plan for doing better?

Well, the primary difference is time and money. The first time around I maxed out my credit card and "went for broke" as they say partially because it looked at the time as if politicians were going to ruin the legalization of marijuana in my state that I had spent the previous year lobbying for. This may seem unrelated but it meant that I would not be looking forward to any increased income above my disability which meant my ultimate goal of living aboard a nice cruiser and traveling was probably going to be forever financially impossible. This led me to act in a rash and somewhat desperate manner. Even after buying the cheap and some might say inadequate to live aboard boat things were rushed because I simply didn't have the money for the voyage. Since then the regulatory framework for marijuana has been put in place. I've become a small commercial grower and have been restored at least marginally to what I consider middle income.


This will pay me significant amounts of money over time instead of trying to make a 3k$ boat with very little working equipment make a several-thousand-mile maiden voyages around the eastern half of the US. I can buy a much better boat with better equipment. I can also afford to keep it where ever it is bought and spend longer familiarizing myself with it. Perhaps even hire a more experienced captain to help with an initial shakedown cruise. Time and money open up freedom of options that simply were not available to me before.

[belizesailor]

Time & money also make it easier to learn...do that first.

[nelly]

As the great philosopher Ron Rico once said, "If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there."

[SuttonCS]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Okay then, MacArthur.

Well, if you are going to sail again, leave as little to hope and to luck as possible. Both hope and luck have a way of deserting you at the most inconvenient moments. Or fail to completely protect you from your own folly.

You were right... figuring out how to sail a sailboat doesn't take long at all. Possibly simpler than figuring out how to make a motor boat go. The trick is not in learning how to make the boat go, and go in the direction you want. The trick is knowing all the other stuff. Like where to go or how to get there in one piece and return likewise and where not to go, and why.

Your baptism by fire is not merely a mark of shame. It is also a resource to draw upon. IOW a lesson learned, and a tempering of the adventurelust. Who knows? You might turn into a pretty good sailor. Or maybe not. Anyway, now you know that usually your boat can take more than you can take, and near land is sometimes the place where you do NOT want to be. So you are a lot wiser than you once were. Practically and old salt, huh? If you disagree with that last, then you are even MORE wiser.

What are your plans for educating yourself? For gaining experience? Yeah you got a lot of experience in a very very short amount of time, but you need a bit more. Given any thought to that? How many books have you read relevant to your sailing interests? Can you pick your favorite 5 or 6? 3 or 4? There are lots of great books out there on diesels, electrical, weather, navigation, rigging, storm tactics, cruising in general, boat handling, safety, maintenance, and lots more topics. If you spend one percent of what you likely paid for your last boat on books before buying your next boat, you will likely have a nice collection to start with. BORING BUT ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY: Rules Of The Road. Not just hard copy of the Rules, but studies, commentary, application. You NEED NEED NEED an encyclopedic knowledge of the Rules. You would not believe how important this is.



You are gonna get a lot of preaching here. Well, now you know that you should give it all a good listen and plenty of thought and consideration. Some of the members here just like to run off at the mouth and show how superior they are by showing how inferior you are. LOL! Still there are germs of wisdom amidst the spew of selfrighteousness and condescension. Plenty others actually do mean well and are not just brushing up their own ego. Some know what they are talking about. Some are expert. Some, not so much. But take help where you find it. Don't get your nickers in a twist just because someone seems to be disrespecting you. USE what you read regardless of the motivation of the poster. You get the last laugh, right?



But, this is the internet. Tuning your BS filter just so, so you get the good stuff and ignore the useless or harmful, can be difficult. So do consider some formal learning. The USCG Power Squadron course is a fine beginning. It may seem really dumbed down to you, having already bought a boat and wrecked and lived to tell the tale, but be of open mind. You will learn, unlearn, and relearn a lot of stuff. Your nearest sailing club is a good resource, too. Dinghy racing is a lot of fun and not so expensive to get started in. What does dinghy racing have to do with cruising? I don't know... what does pedaling a tricycle have to do with winning the Tour de France? Anyway like I said, it can be a lot of fun for not much coin. An older sailing dink, when you tire of it if you do, can often be sold for what you paid for it if you keep it in good shape. It has already depreciated about as much as it can. Most importantly it puts you in a social circle of sailors and sailing. You may find your local club offers classes. That will get you out there in organized races a lot quicker. And surprise... the asshats you meet online, they are members of the sailing club, too. But there are also plenty of great folks who will notice, when you tolerate the more abusive blowhard members with patience, and will be happy to give you genuine help.



So you are SURE you don't want to piddle around in a dinghy? You HAVE to do it on your own? A trailer sailer, especially an older one, like the dinghy will cost peanuts and you won't lose much on the exchange when and if you decide to sell it. No marina fees! Park it at your house, work on it there on the hard, launch it at your local ramp when you want to go sail. A new 4HP Tohatsu is a cheap way to push your trailer queen back to the ramp if the wind stops cooperating. Daysailer? Overnighter? Up to you. Either way you have a small boat ideal for inshore and inland waters that you can keep safely out of harms way until you get a glorious weekend with great weather forecast and maybe an experienced volunteer crew to give you pointers and buy the beer when you get back in. If you can't stand the thought of taking classes and having some know-it-all telling you this and that, then your trailer sailer, with proper safety equipment, is at least a not so bad platform for self learning. I still like the dinghy first, but hey, I can only lead you to the water, not make you sail on it.


ASA schooling is GOOD. Yes there are times when your patience and forebearance will be sorely tried. But you get a good basic education and papers to show it. Your insurance company will take note. Charter firms will consider you capable and worth the risk of chartering a boat to you for that glorious week in the Caribbean that you are likely dreaming of. No, I did not go that route, but I have never heard ANYBODY saying that they regret taking ANY ASA course.



Crewing on a race boat will also get you into that circle of sailors that you really need to be a part of while you are starting out. The contacts that you make will be way more valuable than you probably realize now. For advice, tips on boats for sale, used gear, rallies and regattas, advice on best local marinas, best destinations, and other stuff. Getting a spot on a boat can be surprisingly easy. Yeah there will be an ******* or two, maybe, who knows. Deal with it. A little humility, even false humility, goes a long way. The important thing is you will be learning stuff and surrounding yourself with people who can help you get started. You will learn a lot and get time under sail.



One last tip, if you are going to start again with a cruising boat. Pick your marina. Then buy a boat that is already there, with a transferable slip. Don't buy a "ready to sail away" boat 500 miles from home and count on sailing it back. Get your boat locally and get the slip it is in, too. Then there is no pressure to move it except maybe to the pump out station when the tank is full. Learn on your own time. Sail when it is convenient and you have a crew if desired or needed. Take the boat out for two or three hours, get used to it. Do it every weekend. Go out when it is calm, go out when it is blowing great bearded whitecaps. Learn gradually to face more demanding conditions. Then start making some passages. Keep an open mind. Think before you leave the dock. Plan. Provision. Prepare. Don't try to do it all in a month or a week or a weekend.



Honestly, I am kind of neutral on whether you should try again, or not. As I recall, you were given a good deal of good advice and chose to ignore it before sailing away. Your choice, yeah. So the question I have for you to ask yourself, is "Did you learn to listen to people who know what they are talking about?". Or will you do your own thing because you know better and it is your decision? Yes, if you had taken the ICW you would have spent a lot of money on fuel. Unfortunately spending money you would rather not spend is sometimes an integral part of messing about in boats. The cheapest way is sometimes a good way, sometimes a not so good way, sometimes a very very sucky way. Patience and taking time to study first can save you a lot of grief. Have you done much of that since your mishap? You sure didn't do much of that beforehand. Don't think of another boat as a rematch between you and the sea, or the answer to all of the posts putting you down for the things you did or didn't do. Don't go there at all. But if you think you learned something that is even more fundamental than how to safely operate a sailboat, then you are likely better equipped mentally for being an owner and a skipper of a yacht or rather, a student on the path. I hope you think about it most carefully.

Almost all of this is good advice and sounds very similiar to what I was planning with one or two major exceptions. The first exception is for now at least I live in Oklahoma. There is not a sailing culture here. It's not that it exists and I simply don't know where it's that there isn't one. No race sailors to crew with, no sailing clubs to learn from. There are probably less than 100 day sailors statewide because we have shallow lakes and power boats rule in Oklahoma. So I will employ all of your advice once I find a boat where ever and move aboard there will still likely be hundreds or thousands of miles between that boat and where I currently live but if all goes well I will have less reason to return here and certainly no financial time limit to do so. I can live aboard and take advantage of all the sources of knowledge you propose.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by SuttonCS

Almost all of this is good advice and sounds very similiar to what I was planning with one or two major exceptions. The first exception is for now at least I live in Oklahoma. There is not a sailing culture here. It's not that it exists and I simply don't know where it's that there isn't one. No race sailors to crew with, no sailing clubs to learn from. There are probably less than 100 day sailors statewide because we have shallow lakes and power boats rule in Oklahoma. So I will employ all of your advice once I find a boat where ever and move aboard there will still likely be hundreds or thousands of miles between that boat and where I currently live but if all goes well I will have less reason to return here and certainly no financial time limit to do so. I can live aboard and take advantage of all the sources of knowledge you propose.

Where in Oklahoma? Lake Texoma on the TX-OK border has a large active sailing commumity, sailing clubs, and sailing schools.

[SuttonCS]

I live about 4 hours from there in northeastern Oklahoma north of Wagoner, actually on one of those shallow lakes I mentioned.




There are a few decent sailbaots in the navigable river channel. I met some of those people when living aboard dad's motor yacht several years ago. They mostly never leave the dock and spend years talking about how some day they will go down the river and do some gulf sailing. Most never leave the dock because the river is narrow and often shallow.

[Fiveslide]

I think you can be proud of the way you handled yourself. You stood in court and accepted your fate. You said you're paying off the clean up bill. Picked yourself up and made things happen in your life. Learned from this mistake. You have my respect for all of that.

You made it sound, at the time, that you were judgement proof, with no assets or money. There are a lot of people that would have remained that way because that was the easiest path. You did not. [emoji106]

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by SuttonCS

I live about 4 hours from there in northeastern Oklahoma north of Wagoner, actually on one of those shallow lakes I mentioned.




There are a few decent sailbaots in the navigable river channel. I met some of those people when living aboard dad's motor yacht several years ago. They mostly never leave the dock and spend years talking about how some day they will go down the river and do some gulf sailing. Most never leave the dock because the river is narrow and often shallow.

Well, if you have more time & money flexibility now head down to Texoma for a long weekend and start on some training.