Advice on buying used boat

[iEMH]

Hello all,
A total newbie question. I just started sailing again after 25 years, so please be gentle

I am 47 years old, and I am looking to buy a used boat maybe 38-40ft for sailing until early retirement (+\-60), and then to use it as a live aboard afterwards. Mostly in the Med, and semi circumnavigation.

I do not know much about the durability of glass boats, and I was wondering what is the best step to take right now.

For my questions, please assume the target boat has been cared well by the previous owner.
I was looking at boats (that I could finance now) built around 2000-2010. That would be about 30 years old by the time I retire. Plus will be used many years after that.
Can glass boats handle that much age, assuming I take good care of it?

Riggings and regular maintenance is a given. I guess the overall structure is what worries me. Things that cannot be replaced.

My other option would be to buy a smaller and older vessel until retirement, and hope I have the cash to buy a larger one then
But I rather buy one now and invest on it for retirement if it can last that long with good care.

Any word of advice is greatly appreciated.
Cheers

[capn_billl]

Fiberglass resin boats made in the 1960's are still being used.


That said there was a period that due to using inferior resins, and improper layup, a number of boats late 70's to 90's had delamination, and blistering, (where water seeped in by osmosis into voids causing delamination).

Newer resins, and technology has mostly fixed this, but never a bad idea to thoroughly inspect hull, and test before buying.

Stress cracks, (fixable), oxidation, (preventable with regular upkeep), and fixable with compound, and wax.

Assuming the hull doesn't oil can from bad framing, or too thin shell, or frame pieces are properly bonded to hull, and don't separate, or rot. A fiberglass boat should last forever. (hundred years).

[HeinSdL]

Quite a broad question, but I can share a few thoughts related to my experience, your approach being along similar lines as mine about 10 years ago. I had also had a break from sailing and decided time was right to buy a boat, with a long term view/plan.


Plastic itself is more or less indestructible. (Will be a problem going forward figuring out how to dispose of all the unwanted boats, but anyway.) My boat is from 2002, I bought it in 2010 with the intention of keeping it until I can no longer use it due to my age. Another 30 years from now I hope... Plastic itself no problem.


Maintenance of the plastic - is important. I understand that osmosis results from poor maintenance (and substandard construction?) and is something I would avoid in a boat I was to purchase. Also how fittings are attached to the hull/deck. Poor techniques can lead to moisture entry in the core which is a big deal.


Structural considerations - how critical this is depends a bit on choice of hull shape. A fin keel needs some attention, in any case how it is attached to the hull. I like the concept of having my keel being bolted to a metal frame in the bilges but there are other good solutions too. And a spade rudder also needs some careful looking into.


I am very happy to have chosen the boat I would want to keep (instead of buying something a bit smaller and then upgrade later). In the years since I have had her, I've got to know her very well and am now very comfortable with all the systems, how they work, how to repair, weak points, work arounds, etc. Also spent quite a bit of money to get everything in top shape. This is not something I would want to repeat especially if I were to retire simultaneously at which point I would also need to be more careful spending the cash.

[grantmc]

Boats are not an investment, their value diminishes dramatically. No one knows what might happen in your future, wherever you might be, but if recent history is any sort of guide a boat bought today will be worth about 1/3 the price in the 13/14 years you are projecting out. Oh and let’s not forget maintenance and very significant (constantly increasing) mooring costs.

A 38-40ft yacht will have significant maintenance costs. Some suggest a guide of 10% of purchase price per annum, and that has certainly been the case from my experience. But the cost goes up, more or less exponentially as the size of the boat increases. The bigger the boat, the harder all the gear has to work, and so it needs to be much stronger/bigger/better.

If you want to get back in to sailing why not something 25-30 feet. Much cheaper to buy, house and maintain. And she will still win you some silverware at the local club’s can races.

For myself, if I were in the same position, then at this point I would buy the boat that meets my current needs, and ignore completely what, if any boat I might wish to buy for retirement and as a home. After all no one knows what your situation, might be like then, where you might be living, your health, family needs. But what is certain is that there will be plenty of boats for sale and in all likelihood they’ll be even cheaper proportionally then than they are today.

To answer a specific question with clarity; Fibreglass boats (commonly called GRP) last better than timber or steel. I say this because timber and steel boats need considerable maintenance, and often it isn’t applied, hence we see sad examples in most marinas. Fibreglass though just lasts and lasts and lasts, It is oblivious to sunlight, weather and can take enormous abuse in collisions. Even osmosis is more an item in negotiating price, rather than any real risk that compromises safety.

Obviously the fact that fibreglass lasts so well presents the obvious challenge to safely dispose of a boat once everything else has worn out. A topic you’ll see on the forum occasionally. Disposal is so very very difficult.

You mention buying a boat 10-20 years old. I actually think that GRP boats built 40-50 years ago offer a better option. At that time longevity and building options weren’t as well understood, and so boats tended to be very much over built compared to more recent times. Thicker layers, less use of core, encapsulated keels. Prices reflected the extra build costs, but people seemingly were more prepared to spend larger sums. Far less factory production, with boats being built to be sailed, not just constructed as a nice platform for Sunday cocktails at the marina.

[Nicholson58]

Welcome to the CF. How about some personal details. No help in your profile.

Where are you? Where do you plan to sail before retirement?

The points about osmosis are worth noting. Our 1984 Camper & Nicholson required a lot of bottom work for both small and large blisters. The good news is that this is handled from the outside. We have had no re-occurrence in 10 years.

You say you are looking though for a post 2000 boat anyway. By this time, Boats were being made of vinyl ester which is superior to the earlier polyester.

If it is convenient for you to search marinas and brokers on the Great Lakes you may find what you need that has never seen salt. It will likely not have the full kit needed for blue water but that also means you will start with new electronics, water maker generator etc. in addition, these boats see only a short season and most don’t leave the dock in bad weather. All of the rigging and chain plates will be nearly as new. Through hulls will be pristine. Lots of these boats are listed only locally, possibly at a yacht club or in a yard with a sale sign on it. Plan on a survey. This might require a car trip. Think Cleveland, Toledo, Erie, Pa, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Green Bay, Muskegon, Michigan, Charlevoix, Michigan, Saginaw, Michigan. There are of course other big towns heading east.

Here’s as starter. https://torresen.com/

[PAlter]

Congrats and best wishes on your re-entry to sailing.

Fiberglass durability depends on initial build quality and ongoing maintenance but GRP is quite a stable, durable and excellent material for boats.

I own a LeComte NE 38 that is 51 years old this year. She was built in Holland by A. LeComte, a high quality builder and the hull was built to Lloyds specifications and is incredibly solid and strong.

The design was by Bill Tripp Jr. and it has become a classic. I have owned by boat "Sequitur" for the past 21 years and I am 66 about to be 67 in March so was about your age when I bought her (I was 45).

I do a lot of single handing as well as taking friends and family and this has been a great boat and a beautiful boat to own that is broadly admired. She is also very seaworthy and a joy to sail.

The key to longevity after initial build quality is absolutely the maintenance. Systems can be replaced and upgraded such as engine, rigging, sails, electronics, head and galley equipment, even hatches, etc. but you want to be sure you have a solid and high quality design and initial construction so that any of those upgrades are going onto a boat that is worth it.

You have not mentioned your budget, or where you plan to sail in the years prior to retirement but I may agree with one of the other responder's that you may be best to get something for the current use program. It may be much more affordable. Any way, I am looking for my next boat and selling Sequitur on sailboatlistings.com (look for LeComte NE 38. Good Luck!!!

[dadster3]

I would offer up 2 suggestions to help you get off on the right foot. First, get a copy of Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats by Henry Mustin. It is available from Amazon and will give you a good overview of the complexity of modern sailboats and some background on what to look for when choosing a used boat. I'm pretty sure Mustin is/was a boat surveyor.



The 2d suggestion is that when you are ready to buy, do not scrimp on a survey. If you get the right surveyor he/she will help you weigh the factors you will want to consider before deciding if it is the right boat for you. My survey was $770 for the survey and the short haul prior to the sea trial was about $210, so roughly $1000. Think of it as insurance, not an optional cost. If your boat fails the survey you will be grateful ever-after that you did not buy a nightmare. If it works out you will have an accurate punch list to do what needs doing.



Best wishes on achieving your dreams.

[Apollo366]

Hi Cheers, I see you live in Berlin so it will be a trip to visit the marinas in the Med.

Even if you don't currently vacation in the Med, you probably will in the future. You say 38-40 ft, good length, not too large & expensive to do anything to it, and small enough to sail singlehanded.

I'd start with the on-line broker ads to get some better ideas of what you specifically want, others have gone over the near limitless life of GRP as a hull material, and your desire for a post 2000 boat is a really good start. Also wanting boat that has had good maintenance is a smart decision too. When I bought my current boat I first looked at strength and good known sailing ability, next was accommodation,newness of the sails & low time on engine.

This will probably be a Long Winter's project gettin down to exact models and finding good pricing.

Good luck, smooth sailing,

Capt. Wayne

[billgewater]

A small reminder about fiber glass is that you should check out the deck carefully. Some boat decks were fabricated by laying f/g over plywood. If water enters the structure via even microscopically small holes, the rot in the plywood will spread causing all sorts of headaches. Water can enter via any deck fittings such as stanchion bases, deck tracks etc. However, there are really may excellent second hand, well equipped boats out there. Just don't rush.

[roverhi]

One of my boats is 50 years old, the younger only 43 years old. Maintenance is the key to longevity. If gear has been replaced when needed, leaks fixed, waxed occasionally and generally been cared for, age isn't a big thing. One of the best things about a good condition older boat is they are usually cheap.

[iEMH]

Thank you all for the great info.



Is good to hear from people with similar plans, as well as things I didn't even think about like plywood, balsam, etc. cores used in the construction. I did a quick read on that, and it is something I will keep in mind when visually inspecting a boat. (Looking for boats in lakes is also a great tip, as long as there is a connection to the Med from it)



Of course I will use a surveyor before buying, but this info helps me filter out which boats are worth paying a survey for. I will focus on a few models I like and read about their construction.


Buying a <35ft boat now and maintain it + insurance + storage will be almost the same as buying a larger one effort wise, and will damper further savings for a larger one.(I'm not rich unfortunately ) But I do not want to stop sailing now, and certainly, charter $$ could go to my own boat instead. I go to Greece 3-4 times a year, so I can get good use out of it, and marinas are cheap.


Now I need to figure out the logistics, registration, insurance, taxes, etc about owning a boat in Germany. (I'm a US Citizen living permanently in Germany)


I am sure I'll be posting more questions in the future, but thank you for easing my mind about glass boats


Fair winds!

[Ken Pole]

dunno whether this will help, but it was recently posted by Cruising World:

https://www.cruisingworld.com/15-tips-for-buying-boat/

[Hoodsail]

iEMH;
Would suggest going with a small boat first to get a sense of what you like/dont like, want/dont really need, and generally what you deem important in your "sail away" boat upon retirement. I use the "live in a house for a yr after you've moved in" before renovating philosophy. This approach as with a smaller boat (27-30ft) first, enables you to experience and decide what your ultimate boat should be/have, outside of the easy replaceables like electronics, cushion colors, anchor size/style, etc. Either way, would suggest creating a spreadsheet and track boats, make/yr/equipment/how long on mkt/list price - so when time comes you can make an informed decision on what's a good deal & what's a dog....also would see and crawl around/over as many boats as possible to get a sense of the good/bad/ugly out there as noted in some of the earlier comments. enjoy the hunt...