Albin Ballad 30 for bluewater cruising

[dokondr]

Hi all!

I plan to buy Albin Ballad 30 mostly for single-handed sailing, cruising with my kids sometimes and eventually living on the boat all by myself.
Albin Ballad is considered by many as the racer which is now rated as an ocean cruiser, seaworthy, her beam contributes to the stiffness and she is a well designed (configured, laid out) boat.
I have read quite a bit about the boat yet still have some questions:
- What are Ballad wind force and wave height limits? Her free-board is quite low, what height is it?
- Problems for single-handling?
- Is Ballad hard to steer in heavy weather ? What is heavy weather for Ballad? When she becomes a very wet boat?
- How does she sail downwind?
- Do all Ballad models, including latest ones, have a sandwich deck?
- Mast is keel stepped. How hard is it to drain water from bilges near mast step? How to make the hole where mast goes through the deck water tight?
- Important questions about ground tackle. All pictures of Ballads I have seen so far, show no anchor and no anchor locker on the bow. They have anchors stowed in cockpit locker. Anchor is attached to a short chain (how long and how big is it?) that in turn is attached to some sort of a tape coiled on a stern pushpit. How do they use anchor on a bow? Is it possible to make a proper ground tackle on the bow? Where to store chain in this case? In my case it is important to have a heavy enough anchor with at least 30 meters of chain to anchor from the bow, which makes it impossible to drag all this from a stern locker to the bow when you need to anchor. How to solve anchoring problems on Ballad?
- Auxiliary. The boat I am looking for has Yanmar 2GM engine with 500 work hours. Engine has direct sea water cooling system. Most probably cooling needs replacement because of the rust. Is cooling channels replacement possible with this engine and how much will it approximately cost?
- How big are diesel and water tanks?
- Pictures show heads located close to the bow without any door in sight. Is it so, or heads have a sliding door?
- What problems to look for when buying Ballad?
- Is there any Ballad specific forum in English?

Many thanks for any info on Ballads!

[mait]

I have no answers to your first questions.

About ground tackle-
Most Swedish of the era are equipped with Ankarolina (webbing on reel either in the bow or in the stern).

You can always store the anchor on a bow roller and you can also build a watertight bow locker for the anchor chain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_pFtjXNbbs

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by mait

I have no answers to your first questions.

About ground tackle-
Most Swedish of the era are equipped with Ankarolina (webbing on reel either in the bow or in the stern).

You can always store the anchor on a bow roller and you can also build a watertight bow locker for the anchor chain.

Thanks for the info!

Standard Ballad ground tackle puzzles me. How it was supposed to be used? Why sitting with a stern to wind and waves is considered to be a good idea? How standard anchor tape is supposed to be attached to the boat? If from the stern then to one of the cleats on port or starboard side and not in the middle, how it works then? Do Ballad have a central cleat on the bow that can be used to secure anchor chain / tape?

[psk125]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Hi all!

I plan to buy Albin Ballad 30 mostly for single-handed sailing, cruising with my kids sometimes and eventually living on the boat all by myself.
Albin Ballad is considered by many as the racer which is now rated as an ocean cruiser, seaworthy, her beam contributes to the stiffness and she is a well designed (configured, laid out) boat.
I have read quite a bit about the boat yet still have some questions:
- What are Ballad wind force and wave height limits? Her free-board is quite low, what height is it?
Wind force and wave height limits are hard to define. They will vary a lot depending upon your direction of travel and the period of the waves. The helmsman's abilities make a big difference, along with how tired he or she is.

- Problems for single-handling? Same as for many other boats. Built for racing, sail controls are likely set up for crew to handle, well-spaced on deck.
- Is Ballad hard to steer in heavy weather ?Skeg should help in rough conditions. What is heavy weather for Ballad? What is heavy weather for YOU? We've gone out for fun in 40-knots +, just to see what happens.When she becomes a very wet boat?
- How does she sail downwind?Skeg should help hold her steady downwind.
- Do all Ballad models, including latest ones, have a sandwich deck?The idea behind a production boat is to save money by making them all the same. Why would this one be any different?
- Mast is keel stepped. How hard is it to drain water from bilges near mast step?You will need a pump. How to make the hole where mast goes through the deck water tight?There are practically books about how to make your mast partners watertight. Good luck.Water comes down the mast groove for the luff too.
- Important questions about ground tackle. All pictures of Ballads I have seen so far, show no anchor and no anchor locker on the bow. They have anchors stowed in cockpit locker. Anchor is attached to a short chain (how long and how big is it?) that in turn is attached to some sort of a tape coiled on a stern pushpit. How do they use anchor on a bow? Is it possible to make a proper ground tackle on the bow? Where to store chain in this case? In my case it is important to have a heavy enough anchor with at least 30 meters of chain to anchor from the bow, which makes it impossible to drag all this from a stern locker to the bow when you need to anchor. How to solve anchoring problems on Ballad?Since many of these boats were raced, owners opted for the lightest and easiest ground tackle, since it was hardly ever used. It is quite simple to lead the anchor line from the bow to the cockpit, where a singlehanded can drop it over the side. What 30m of heavy chain will do to the sailing characteristics of such a small and relatively light boat, especially if it is stowed forward, could be interesting, and perhaps dangerous for the handling of the boat in some conditions.
- Auxiliary. The boat I am looking for has Yanmar 2GM engine with 500 work hours. Engine has direct sea water cooling system. Most probably cooling needs replacement because of the rust.Our boat has a 1982 Yanmar 3GM raw-water cooled engine too. We have replaced hoses, interior zincs, gaskets and belts as needed. We do not have an hour meter, but it likely has more than a thousand hours on it. Diesels can last a long time. Is cooling channels replacement possible with this engine and how much will it approximately cost?A Yanmar mechanic should be able to tell you.
- How big are diesel and water tanks?This link: https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/ballad-30-albin shows that these boats have 30L diesel and 61L water tanks
- Pictures show heads located close to the bow without any door in sight. Is it so, or heads have a sliding door?You are going to sail with your family or singlehanded, and you worry about a door on the head??? Many smaller boats have curtains if a door is unworkable.
- What problems to look for when buying Ballad?We looked at an Albin at one point and noticed that the steel floors had extensive rust. Having the keel fall off because of this could ruin your afternoon. Check under the floorboards of the cabin sole.
- Is there any Ballad specific forum in English?

Many thanks for any info on Ballads!

Hope this is helpful.

[mait]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Thanks for the info!

Standard Ballad ground tackle puzzles me. How it was supposed to be used? Why sitting with a stern to wind and waves is considered to be a good idea? How standard anchor tape is supposed to be attached to the boat? If from the stern then to one of the cleats on port or starboard side and not in the middle, how it works then? Do Ballad have a central cleat on the bow that can be used to secure anchor chain / tape?

In Sweden / Finland it is normal practice to drop the anchor from the stern. The bow will be tied to the trees or rings on shore. The shores are pretty steep usually and one can step on shore from the bow.


You can always walk to the bow with your anchor rode and cleat it there if you want to anchor the usual way, away from the shore.

[Hermia II]

In Sweden we mostly tie up bow to land and an anchor off the stern. Being a "sporty" boat in the old days the main anchor was stowed low in the boat.

[johnn33]

try Home - Triola - Albin Ballad #50

[johnn33]

also The Ballad Exchange - Index page

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "I plan to buy Albin Ballad 30 mostly for single-handed sailing, cruising with my kids sometimes and eventually living on the boat all by myself."

While psk's interspersed answers in post #4 are admirable, I think there are a number of additional things you might like to consider since the overall impression given by your OP is that you are new to the game.

The Albin 30 is a nice little boat and much of a muchness with other Scowegian "cruiser/racers" of her vintage. The King's Cruiser is the one I know best:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/kings-cruiser-29

These two boats are contemporaries and functionally equivalent. They are based on older Scowegian tradition and are direct derivatives of the Folkebåd which we know as the "International Folkboat"

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/in...ional-folkboat

"Modern" North Americans CAN cruise in these boats, but doing so is very much like "camping out" - in the rough at that. We Scowegians thought, back then in the late '60s, that these were BIG boats, because most boats were, like the IF, in the 24 and 25 foot range.

You will see that the interior arrangement is much the same in all these boats, so there really isn't anything to choose between there. Cooking arrangements are, to say the least, minimal in their native configuration, and I would expect that for any of the boats this side of The Pond, these arrangements have been upgraded. Toilet arrangements are primitive because the boats have so little interior space. In the "heads" (the toilet "room"), there is, typically "not room to swing a cat", or more to the point, not sufficient room for a grown man's elbows to move while he "does the paper work". Having a shower is just not an option for want of space.

No need to elaborate further on those things I'm sure :-)!

For day-sailing, or weekends out with a coupla smallish kids or young teenagers, they are excellent boats, particularly if they haven't been "upgraded" with such things as roller furling. If they are kept mechanically simple they can, in the hands of a competent skipper, go like veritable stink, but they are only 3 1/2 tons, so you can easily spoil their performance by loading them down with clobber, both personal and boat related.

So that brings us to your question/comment about 90 feet of chain. Whyever would you need 90 feet? Where are you gonna sail? Where are you gonna anchor?

Another practicality is that an Albin 30 in good condition should set you back no more than five grand. For that money you would get a boat that is EXCELLENT for learning the basic on - particularly if it is kept simple as to rigging - and for taking a coupla kiddie-winks out for a weekend's or even a week's camping. If, after you get some miles under your keel, you decide that you would like to take the Albin down to where the coconuts grow, or even around Vancouver Island, then know that the BOAT is perfectly capable of undertaking such a voyage. The question is whether YOU will be. It is not the boat that takes the crew safely across vast stretches of water. It' the skipper that takes the boat with her crew safely across!

You may decide after getting some experience in the Albin that for a permanent retirement upon the bounding main you'd prefer a bigger boat. In that case, just walk away from your five grand by giving the boat to one of the foundations that accept old boats against a receipt for tax purposes, and then use the proceeds from the (eventual) sale of the boat for various benevolent purposes. One of the realities of a sailorman's life is that he should never put more money into a boat than he can walk away from with s smile still on his face :-)!

Good luck to you, and let's know how you get on.

TrentePieds

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by mait

In Sweden / Finland it is normal practice to drop the anchor from the stern. The bow will be tied to the trees or rings on shore. The shores are pretty steep usually and one can step on shore from the bow.
Attachment 228854

You can always walk to the bow with your anchor rode and cleat it there if you want to anchor the usual way, away from the shore.

Yes, this can be done. If your anchor from the bow, when leaving anchorage singlehand to get anchor back, you pull you boat with your hands to anchor, get chain and anchor back on the deck first and then carry all this load back to stern to put in the cockpit locker. Correct?

[mait]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Yes, this can be done. If your anchor from the bow, when leaving anchorage singlehand to get anchor back, you pull you boat with your hands to anchor, get chain and anchor back on the deck first and then carry all this load back to stern to put in the cockpit locker. Correct?

Correct. Put the boat on the course and then clear the mess from the foredeck.

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by mait

Correct. Put the boat on the course and then clear the mess from the foredeck.

What about doing this in a blow? Can you safely coil anchor rod and chain on foredeck in big waves and no anchor box when you are alone on the boat?

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: "I plan to buy Albin Ballad 30 mostly for single-handed sailing, cruising with my kids sometimes and eventually living on the boat all by myself."

While psk's interspersed answers in post #4 are admirable, I think there are a number of additional things you might like to consider since the overall impression given by your OP is that you are new to the game.

The Albin 30 is a nice little boat and much of a muchness with other Scowegian "cruiser/racers" of her vintage. The King's Cruiser is the one I know best:

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/kings-cruiser-29

These two boats are contemporaries and functionally equivalent. They are based on older Scowegian tradition and are direct derivatives of the Folkebåd which we know as the "International Folkboat"

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/in...ional-folkboat

"Modern" North Americans CAN cruise in these boats, but doing so is very much like "camping out" - in the rough at that. We Scowegians thought, back then in the late '60s, that these were BIG boats, because most boats were, like the IF, in the 24 and 25 foot range.

You will see that the interior arrangement is much the same in all these boats, so there really isn't anything to choose between there. Cooking arrangements are, to say the least, minimal in their native configuration, and I would expect that for any of the boats this side of The Pond, these arrangements have been upgraded. Toilet arrangements are primitive because the boats have so little interior space. In the "heads" (the toilet "room"), there is, typically "not room to swing a cat", or more to the point, not sufficient room for a grown man's elbows to move while he "does the paper work". Having a shower is just not an option for want of space.

No need to elaborate further on those things I'm sure :-)!

For day-sailing, or weekends out with a coupla smallish kids or young teenagers, they are excellent boats, particularly if they haven't been "upgraded" with such things as roller furling. If they are kept mechanically simple they can, in the hands of a competent skipper, go like veritable stink, but they are only 3 1/2 tons, so you can easily spoil their performance by loading them down with clobber, both personal and boat related.

So that brings us to your question/comment about 90 feet of chain. Whyever would you need 90 feet? Where are you gonna sail? Where are you gonna anchor?

Another practicality is that an Albin 30 in good condition should set you back no more than five grand. For that money you would get a boat that is EXCELLENT for learning the basic on - particularly if it is kept simple as to rigging - and for taking a coupla kiddie-winks out for a weekend's or even a week's camping. If, after you get some miles under your keel, you decide that you would like to take the Albin down to where the coconuts grow, or even around Vancouver Island, then know that the BOAT is perfectly capable of undertaking such a voyage. The question is whether YOU will be. It is not the boat that takes the crew safely across vast stretches of water. It' the skipper that takes the boat with her crew safely across!

You may decide after getting some experience in the Albin that for a permanent retirement upon the bounding main you'd prefer a bigger boat. In that case, just walk away from your five grand by giving the boat to one of the foundations that accept old boats against a receipt for tax purposes, and then use the proceeds from the (eventual) sale of the boat for various benevolent purposes. One of the realities of a sailorman's life is that he should never put more money into a boat than he can walk away from with s smile still on his face :-)!

Good luck to you, and let's know how you get on.

TrentePieds

Many thanks for your kind advice, Trente! Really helpful.
After getting the boat ready I plan to single-handedly sail her from France where she is now to Tenerife, Canaries, where I work occasionally as RYA Cruising Instructor and where I plan to bring my grandchildren for a vacation once in a while to sail with me around the islands.
I singlehand quite a bit on smaller and bigger (up to 40 feet) boats and Ballad looks like a nice, seaworthy boat that is able to take me there, I hope.
Just waiting this virus thing at least somewhat over to get to the boat. And meanwhile getting all info (money and work-wise) I need to make my Ballad ready :-)

[mait]

Originally Posted by dokondr

What about doing this in a blow? Can you safely coil anchor rod and chain on foredeck in big waves and no anchor box when you are alone on the boat?

Depending on the blow and waves, no, probably not.

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "What about doing this in a blow? Can you safely coil anchor rod and chain on foredeck in big waves and no anchor box when you are alone on the boat?"

Why would you try to do it that way anyway?

There are some preliminary considerations. In Scowegian waters, which was the Albin 30's cruising ground, the fetches are very short and wave height therefore always little or moderate. Sailing in "The Skerries" (east coast of Sweden) there is always a lump of rock that you can use as a breakwater and you can always find a lee somewhere to shelter behind. However, just like here in the Salish Sea, you can be 50 feet from shore and in 200 feet of water. The distances between harbours are very short so anchoring is never much of a problem since it's something you do only if you are hell-bent on isolating yourself. "Emergency anchoring" is, if ever, rarely called for.

Now for a 3 1/2 ton boat is those waters you only need a 15 lb (7 Kg) anchor for a bower. On my five tonner in the Salish Sea I have a Bruce because it stows so beautifully on a bow roller. It would stow in absolutely the same delightful way on a bow roller on an Albin 30. It's never any bother at all when stowed. It is never in the way, and it never shifts unless I TELL it to :-). About 200 feet (32 fathoms or 60 metres) of total scope should be enuff, and it's nice to have, say, six or seven fathoms of 5/16" (8mm) chain, to lay the shank flat on the bottom and to take the chafe of the first few fathoms of scope near the anchor, particularly if the ground is foul with rocks. The rope part of the scope should be 7/16" (11mm) three strand nylon, because nylon is elastic and becomes its own "snubber" (shock absorber).

5/16" chain weighs just under a pound (say than 400gr.) per foot and has a breaking strength of 4,700 lbs, say 2 tons. So 40 feet (which is what I have) weighs about 16Kg.

7/16" three strand nylon has a breaking strength of 4,500 lbs (i.e. very much the same as the chain), and a weight of 5 lbs per 100 feet. So 200 feet, which is what I have, weighs about 4 1/2 Kg.

The weight of ALL the ground tackle may therefore be expected to be about 28Kg.

So weight is simply NOT a problem. Nevertheless, since you obviously don't need an anchor when you are in deep water, say more than 30 feet or 10M deep) you take the weight out of the ends of the boat and thereby make a light boat like an Albin 30 more sea kindly. You stow the stuff as near to midships as you can. Just make sure that the stuff is securely lashed down just in case Poseidon gets up on the wrong side of the bed.

Now, I have an electric windlass, but — Oh, my Aunt! What a turkey! So, Dok, I you want to know what I do in TrentePieds, just ask :-)

TP