Alternatives to IP 38

[Papasail]

I’ve spent a lot of time rummaging through the world’s sea chest of sailboats, and am hoping for some experienced thoughts before buying my forever boat this year. I’ve waited almost 12 years. Shopping budget stops at $180,000.
Sailing & refit cash have already been provided for. The expectation is serious sailing: Maine to Caribbeans for a couple years; Caribbeans to Pacific Northwest; Pacific; South America; Cape Horn; Mediterranean; UK; Nordic region; back to Maine.

The basic criteria below, lands me on a post-1996 38’ Island Packet (I want the sugarscoop). *Chainplate issues already addressed.

1. Bluewater.
2. Thin water.
3. Full fiberglass build, no rot.
4. Solo sailor setup.
5. 38’ as resale “sweetspot,” plus (1,2,&3).
6. Sea kindly, comes into it’s own at sea, tracks well, and becomes a solid performer in a storm. (boat is better than the sailor).

I pause at a few issues:
1. Not so good in light air, doesn’t point well.
2. Considered slow (as a problem).
3. Tough to maneuver in tight quarters.
4. No doghouse, no pilothouse.

As I read comments about IP’s (both love & hate), I don’t typically see pound-for-pound replacement alternatives…

Would love to hear your thoughts on better boats in the same class of wallet, that don’t turn into project boats.

Thanks in advance!

[SY Harmony]

Originally Posted by Papasail

I pause at a few issues:
1. Not so good in light air, doesn’t point well.
2. Considered slow (as a problem).
3. Tough to maneuver in tight quarters.
4. No doghouse, no pilothouse.

Would love to hear your thoughts on better boats in the same class of wallet, that don’t turn into project boats.

Thanks in advance!

Just some thoughts
1) that’s a side effect of the features the makes her so sea kindly in snotty weather.
2) see above, are you in it for the ride or, to get somewhere?
3) and again - long keel, single screw, atleast the P factor is relatively low.
4) have a dodger built.

All boats are projects. Even brand new ones, it’s just a matter of how deep are you willing to get into one. A quality surveyor should be able to help you make these decisions.
Read up on boat building and refitting. A lot of people find it to be fun to maintain and upgrade their vessels.

[marcjsmith]

As harmony mention. Canvas can be added for the protection of the occupants. Thruster could be added to help with the docking manners.

Sail inventory can be increased to combat the light air issues. Still a displacement hull it’s Just gonna dig a big hole the faster it goes.

How about a Cabo Rico 38 pilothouse? No sugar scoop but at 115k. Plenty of budget for a swim platform or stern mods

https://www.edwardsyachtsales.com/bo...-cutter/17800/

A bit older but tartan 37 with center board to help with upwind perf

[Benz]

Hans Christian made a nice 38, which is spite of the canoe stern far exceeds the IP in build quality, hull form, and excellence.
Second the Cabo Rico suggestion. Both these have a keel that's closer to full than the IP, whose bilges are too tight to be properly full and behave like it. It's more like a skinny lengthwise fin.

[Bobby Lex]

Crealock/Pacific Seacraft 37 is an excellent choice in your category. So is a Caliber 38.

Sugar scoops are over-rated.

Limited maneuverability in tight quarters is exaggerated. Helm skills, experience, and learning your boat's idiosyncrasies is the key. (Maryland School of Sailing has a docking video on Youtube which shows a young lady student spinning around and maneuvering an Island Packet quite adeptly. You should watch it. IPs and other full keel sailboats are not the uncontrollable slugs that they are often made out to be).
(Brings to mind how car makers now tout cars that park themselves because people have forgotten how to parallel park. It's not the car, it's the driver. Likewise with boats, it's not the Island Packet, it's the Captain).

Bottom line: IPs are great boats. And you have several good other choices as well.

Bob

[gonesail]

the IP38 and 40 are tempting but at the age where things start breaking. like the chain plates and the encapsulated fuel tanks.

[Sailor Sailor]

Take a look at John Neale's list of boats to consider for offshore cruising:

https://mahina.com/wp-content/upload...e-Cruising.pdf

You might also read "Desirable and Undesirable Characteristics of Offshore Yachts", by the Technical Committee of the Cruising Club of America, edited by John Rousmaniere.

The problem with your post is you will get answers from members who did not make very good choices in their selection of a bluewater cruiser. Their criteria may not have been based on purpose, design, and build quality, but other criteria with higher value to them such as interior volume, spaciousness, number of queen size berths, lowest cost new, etc.

[clamshack]

With modern day weather models/forecasting their is little need for “blue water cruisers” anymore. Get something that is pleasant at anchor and can make progress in light air. You don’t want to be living in a cave with a tiny cockpit and motoring everywhere..

There is definitely a trade off, but unless you are making 3-5 day passages all the time you’ll be happier in my opinion.

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by clamshack

With modern day weather models/forecasting their is little need for “blue water cruisers” anymore. Get something that is pleasant at anchor and can make progress in light air...

That was probably the mindset of the captain of the Beneteau 393 Faule Haut, which was rescued off the U.S. east coast last year by the U.S.C.G. in 40 knots with 10-12 foot seas. He apparently had no storm sails, no drag devices, and chose to lie ahull. A wave picked up the boat and capsized it, breaking bulkheads and portlights, and dismasting the vessel.

If you have ever read Fastnet Force 10 by John Rousmaniere, you will be impressed by how fast and unpredictable that storm developed. The weather forecasts were inaccurate. The boats were only 100 miles offshore, or less.

Finally, if one follows your advice, what happens if you lose electrical power well offshore and you cannot get weather information. What do you do when it starts to go downhill? Cross your fingers or pray?

[clamshack]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

That was probably the mindset of the captain of the Beneteau 393 Faule Haut, which was rescued off the U.S. east coast last year by the U.S.C.G. in 40 knots with 10-12 foot seas. He apparently had no storm sails, no drag devices, and chose to lie ahull. A wave picked up the boat and capsized it, breaking bulkheads and portlights, and dismasting the vessel.

If you have ever read Fastnet Force 10 by John Rousmaniere, you will be impressed by how fast and unpredictable that storm developed. The weather forecasts were inaccurate. The boats were only 100 miles offshore, or less.

Finally, if one follows your advice, what happens if you lose electrical power well offshore and you cannot get weather information. What do you do when it starts to go downhill? Cross your fingers or pray?

I actually talked to him right after he was rescued. He was using one source for weather Predict Wind. He had not hired anyone to assist with forecasting.
Any competent meteorologist would have been able to direct him away from that storm.

John Neal is a great guy. I’ve talked to him too. He thinks that list needs to be updated. He does provide it for free though. He also offers a consultation service and seminars. I’ve participated in both and he ended up convincing me not to buy a “blue water cruiser” or whatever you want to call it.

I know they are popular with hipsters and the 1 in a million doom crowd, but they don’t make sense for what the vast majority of people are doing with them.

[pcmm]

If you can step away from the "traditional look" This one is very high on my list these days If I was in the market:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/200...on-40-8504641/

Wauquiez Pilot saloon. Great setup from a very well respected builder I really like the pilot house/saloon for being able to drive in crappy weather without having to get soaked/cold in the process (that gets old really quick)

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by clamshack

I actually talked to him right after he was rescued. He was using one source for weather Predict Wind. He had not hired anyone to assist with forecasting.
Any competent meteorologist would have been able to direct him away from that storm.

John Neal is a great guy. I’ve talked to him too. He thinks that list needs to be updated. .

The list shows it was updated in April 2021. Did something change in the last 2 years?

What you are missing is his discussion of design features, which the boats on the list have.

So, now we are blaming the Beneteau falling into pieces as the fault of a paid meteorologist?

Last year, it was blamed on the skipper's storm tactics for lying ahull. Why make excuses, because it does not fit your narrative? It could not possibly be the boat chosen and the lack of preparation with storm gear.

Has anyone heard of Occam's Razor - pick the simplest explanation, not the more obtuse indirect cause. So now for the quiz: What is the simplest explanation?

If you read Fastnet Force 10, you will understand that many of those boats racing were capsized or pitchpoled; while many were dismasted, very few except the lightest had bulkhead separations and exploded portlights. The Nautor Swan 48 the author was on came through fine. Coincidence?

[clamshack]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

The list shows it was updated in April 2021. Did something change in the last 2 years?

What you are missing is his discussion of design features, which the boats on the list have.

So, now we are blaming the Beneteau falling into pieces as the fault of a paid meteorologist?

Last year, it was blamed on the skipper's storm tactics for lying ahull. Why make excuses, because it does not fit your narrative? It could not possibly be the boat chosen and the lack of preparation with storm gear.

Has anyone heard of Occam's Razor - pick the simplest explanation, not the more obtuse indirect cause. So now for the quiz: What is the simplest explanation?

If you read Fastnet Force 10, you will understand that many of those boats racing were capsized or pitchpoled; while many were dismasted, very few except the lightest had bulkhead separations and exploded portlights. The Nautor Swan 48 the author was on came through fine. Coincidence?

I can only speak to personal experience, which I understand doesn’t carry much weight on a message board :-). I don’t have a narrative, agenda or a god. Nor am I citing sensational stories. Island Packet makes great boats. If that is what the poster wants, that’s great.

Though I will say getting at rotting aluminum tanks will be more of an issue than chain plates or boat design.

[Don C L]

So I used to sail a Downeast (Downeaster) 38 and while I am not really a heavy boat kind of guy I was always pleasantly surprised by her combination of performance, roominess and comfort. Pretty stoutly built as far as I could tell too. And though it is a pretty full keel, I was able to work it around in tight quarters by giving it blasts from the prop over the rudder. If you find one of these in good shape I'd say to go get a good look at it.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/downeaster-38

[Papasail]

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex

Crealock/Pacific Seacraft 37 is an excellent choice in your category. So is a Caliber 38.

Sugar scoops are over-rated.

Limited maneuverability in tight quarters is exaggerated. Helm skills, experience, and learning your boat's idiosyncrasies is the key. (Maryland School of Sailing has a docking video on Youtube which shows a young lady student spinning around and maneuvering an Island Packet quite adeptly. You should watch it. IPs and other full keel sailboats are not the uncontrollable slugs that they are often made out to be).
(Brings to mind how car makers now tout cars that park themselves because people have forgotten how to parallel park. It's not the car, it's the driver. Likewise with boats, it's not the Island Packet, it's the Captain).

Bottom line: IPs are great boats. And you have several good other choices as well.

Bob

Hilarious…. I literally looked up Maryland School of Sailing this morning before diving into these posts…. *I told myself I must be fated to sign up with them… )