American Buying a UK Boat

[WaterTrails]

Great info from all! Shout out of Thanks to Dockhead and Zanshin for that very useful info. If I've absorbed all of this correctly, to summarize my situation:

1- Have a UK address (a forwarding service works great for this - which is what I planned to do anyway).
2- Apply with Part I of the registry. Part III is not obtainable to an American.
3- Pantaenius is a good source of fairly priced liab insurance.

I was thinking about registering in one of the many offshore opportunities (ie bermuda), but it doesn't sound like this is needed, so happy to hear cruisers can have a world hq in the UK, as it should be (nautical heritage).

Tonnage survey shouldn't be a problem (I knew this, I've been a marine surveyor in the past and will start again as my retirement job - I only used to chg $75 for taking these simple measurements).

More info is welcomed, I'm not worried about Brexit, these things always have a way of working out, just causes some discomfort for those who have to adj the procedures.

˜Chris (aka Water Trails)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by WaterTrails

Great info from all! Shout out of Thanks to Dockhead and Zanshin for that very useful info. If I've absorbed all of this correctly, to summarize my situation:

1- Have a UK address (a forwarding service works great for this - which is what I planned to do anyway).
2- Apply with Part I of the registry. Part III is not obtainable to an American.
3- Pantaenius is a good source of fairly priced liab insurance.

I was thinking about registering in one of the many offshore opportunities (ie bermuda), but it doesn't sound like this is needed, so happy to hear cruisers can have a world hq in the UK, as it should be (nautical heritage).

Tonnage survey shouldn't be a problem (I knew this, I've been a marine surveyor in the past and will start again as my retirement job - I only used to chg $75 for taking these simple measurements).

More info is welcomed, I'm not worried about Brexit, these things always have a way of working out, just causes some discomfort for those who have to adj the procedures.

˜Chris (aka Water Trails)

UK is a great flag. Zero tax (except VAT on acquisition), very little regulation, and what regulation there is is very sensible, and is respectable and unnoticed in European waters, which may not be the case with tax haven flags.


Brexit will inevitably tarnish the Red Duster somewhat for European cruising -- suddenly you are a vessel not in her legal home waters from a customs point of view, so there will be more red tape. But I think it's not the end of the world; customs clearance in Europe is pretty easy in most places and you don't generally have to do it when sailing among European countries.



Pay attention to the VAT issue. If your boat is VAT paid and you want to retain that status in the UK, you want the boat to be lying in UK waters on the day Brexit is legally effective, and you want good proof of that. If on the other hand you want the boat to have European VAT paid status, then you need to be in European waters, and you need to study the rules in advance because they may change. They may also be different from country to country. This is an important question. Unless there is some special agreement, after 31 January or whenever Brexit legally occurs, you will not be able to cruise in European waters with European citizens or residents aboard in a UK boat which lost European VAT paid status, and expect some of the officious jobsworths in Belgium or some other such place to be aggressively enforcing it.


In my own case, I have decided in favor of retaining European VAT status rather than UK, so my boat is in Denmark right now waiting for Brexit to occur. I sail with lots of European citizens and residents on board and I have a European residence permit myself, so I couldn't risk getting caught in that situation. This might hurt my chances of later selling the boat in the UK, but I think there is a better chance that the Brits, who are much more relaxed about such things than the Continental, will not care and will continue to presume all UK built and UK flagged boats to have VAT paid status if they had it in the first place. I can say that in 10 years of cruising UK waters I have never once been asked for VAT documents, and have never heard of UK flag UK built boats being asked for VAT documents.


One minor downside to the UK flag is -- the UK flag. The flag itself is pretty enough, but it's predominantly red, and red dyes fade in the sun and you have to replace them constantly, which gets expensive if you like the nice sewn ones. My latest one is made of nylon rather than cotton, with different dyes, and seems to be holding up better; we'll see.

[Dockhead]

[WaterTrails]

Thanks again for this very useful info.

[valhalla360]

We bought a UK registered boat a few years back...in Spain.

Really wasn't a big deal. The prior owner deregistered it and sent us the document confirming. We then filled out the USCG registration paperwork sent it in.

Only issue was they took forever until we finally called and once we explained that the boat was out of the country, they put a rush on it and we had it in a week.

Got insurance thru a local spanish insurance agent in the same port...no issues.

We never brought it back to the USA, so never paid import duty.

[earthbm]

Originally Posted by WaterTrails

Great info from all! Shout out of Thanks to Dockhead and Zanshin for that very useful info. If I've absorbed all of this correctly, to summarize my situation:

1- Have a UK address (a forwarding service works great for this - which is what I planned to do anyway).
2- Apply with Part I of the registry. Part III is not obtainable to an American.
3- Pantaenius is a good source of fairly priced liab insurance.

I was thinking about registering in one of the many offshore opportunities (ie bermuda), but it doesn't sound like this is needed, so happy to hear cruisers can have a world hq in the UK, as it should be (nautical heritage).

Tonnage survey shouldn't be a problem (I knew this, I've been a marine surveyor in the past and will start again as my retirement job - I only used to chg $75 for taking these simple measurements).

More info is welcomed, I'm not worried about Brexit, these things always have a way of working out, just causes some discomfort for those who have to adj the procedures.

˜Chris (aka Water Trails)

This is a good find and USA being on the Schedule 6 list seems to be fairly recent, Brexit-related?

On the same list are: Argentina, Aruba, Bahrain, Brazil, the Canary Islands, China, the Faroe Islands, Haiti, Israel, Japan, Liberia, Madeira, the Marshall Islands, Monaco, Panama, South Korea, Switzerland, Suriname, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States of America.

Is UK the only country doing this? Other jurisdictions seem to require some connection to the country itself (eg via a local corporation). What's the concept behind it?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by WaterTrails

Tonnage survey shouldn't be a problem (I knew this, I've been a marine surveyor in the past and will start again as my retirement job - I only used to chg $75 for taking these simple measurements).

˜Chris (aka Water Trails)

If measuring under the "simplified rules" (for smaller vessels) anyone can do it however, many vessels (depending on jurisdiction) require a full measurement (usually over 42' or so and all multi-deck or multi-hulls). A full measurement can only be done by an IMO government appointed "Tonnage Measurer" and you ain't getting that with all the Simpson Rules for $75.

I hold such a ministerial appointment from Transport Canada and my measurements are accepted by all IMO signatories.

If you get into a situation that requires "Part 3 measurement" rather than "Simplified Measurement" PM me and I may be able to help.

[Bubblehead]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Pay attention to the VAT issue. If your boat is VAT paid and you want to retain that status in the UK, you want the boat to be lying in UK waters on the day Brexit is legally effective, and you want good proof of that. If on the other hand you want the boat to have European VAT paid status, then you need to be in European waters, and you need to study the rules in advance because they may change. They may also be different from country to country. This is an important question. Unless there is some special agreement, after 31 January or whenever Brexit legally occurs, you will not be able to cruise in European waters with European citizens or residents aboard in a UK boat which lost European VAT paid status, and expect some of the officious jobsworths in Belgium or some other such place to be aggressively enforcing it.

Dockhead, thanks for this excellent post. I'm a US citizen and resident and am keen to buy a steel Dutch-built boat in NL next year. The boat will be used, EU-built, EUVAT-paid, in the EU upon Brexit, and likely registered at the Kadaster.

Plan is to cruise it for a few years between EU, Britain, and Ireland to meet visa limits and avoid tax residency. Maybe through France to the Med for a while. Preserving EUVAT-paid status will be important, since (I think) resale will best back in NL when the time comes.

It seems my best registration options are USA and UK Part I. I lean toward UK, but it would be ugly to trigger UKVAT and I'm not sure if it could tilt a tax residency question the wrong way at the margins. I have relatives who are EU residents who would be aboard at some point, just to make the registration choice more interesting.

Any advice or other points to consider?