American Buying a UK Boat

[WaterTrails]

I'm considering purchasing a boat in the UK, but I'm a US citizen. I'm a little concerned about the paperwork implications. Anybody done this that wants to chime in and share the experience is welcome. Did you use a Documentation Agent (from UK or US?) Where did you register the boat? Any surprise taxes?
Thanks much for experience/knowledge.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by WaterTrails

I'm considering purchasing a boat in the UK, but I'm a US citizen. I'm a little concerned about the paperwork implications. Anybody done this that wants to chime in and share the experience is welcome. Did you use a Documentation Agent (from UK or US?) Where did you register the boat? Any surprise taxes?
Thanks much for experience/knowledge.

I did it in 2017. I wouldn't do it again!

There are many paperwork pitfalls:

The biggest problem we had was getting insurance. There isn't space to list all the problems (and mercifully, I've forgotten most of them) but suffice to say you need to allow at least 2-3 months for this process, assuming you have a good agent. A bad agent will throw in the towel before clearing all the hurdles. Make sure you talk to a few companies ahead of time to make sure it is even possible to get insurance for what you want to do after purchase, like sailing home. Depending on your experience, the insurance company might require you to hire a delivery captain, or find two experienced crew for the sail home. Luckily, we were able to find crew, but the insurance company had to approve them first.

Bottom line: your purchase MUST be contingent on securing insurance, or you could end up with a very expensive problem.

Pre-purchase survey: you will want this, and your insurance company definitely will. Problem: we had one heck of a time finding a qualified surveyor in Martinique who our insurance company would accept. I imagine the same could happen in lots of places. Allow lots of time for this surveyor approval process.

BTW, the surveyor was useless. He missed all sorts of things. Luckily we purchased a seriously over-built boat that made it back to the US despite all the hidden problems, which we have spent the last 2 years fixing. But that's a different story!

Depending on your experience, your insurance company may required you to be 'checked out' by a licensed Captain. i.e. licensed by the USCG. This might be tricky in an out-of-the-way place where Captains aren't a dime a dozen at the yacht club bar.

To purchase the boat, you really should use a USCG Bill of Sale. That will make it much easier for importing the boat to the US. Problem: you will need to have the form notarized. Notarization is a US thing, so you will have to find a US Consulate or Embassy that can notarize it for you. Make sure there is one close by.

We did hire an agent to process the USCG documentation application for us, mainly because we were under time constraints and couldn't afford to have the application rejected. Problem: it takes forever to get the actual Documentation. Luckily, you can request a temporary letter which will allow you to sail. I forget what it's called, but it's an option you can request. The USCG bill of sale + this letter + insurance will be your boat papers until the Documentation arrives.

Clearing in through immigration is no problem, assuming you have the 'boat papers' I mentioned above. You must clear in before importing the boat through Customs.

To import the boat into the US, you will need to hire an import agent. US customs will not deal with an individual. These are available in major ports of entry, like West Palm Beach.

Since we are Florida residents, we also had to register the boat in FL. You will read on the Intertubes that this isn't necessary if you document the boat. Believe me, it is. FL DMV get a copy of the import documents and will track you down to collect their registration fee and sales tax. Ask me how I know this. I'm sure the same is true in other states, though I will get an argument from some for saying this. Hint: ask your local DMV for the straight answer.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Zanshin]

Are you intending on bringing the boat back to the USA or sailing in Europe or the Caribbean?

Jalmberg had issues not with the purchase of the boat in the U.K. but getting it registered and imported in the U.S.

If you don't intend on taking the boat back to the U.S. then you have a number of options. You can choose any one of a number of flags of convenience, including keeping the British registry if you reside in the U.K.

If the boat is registered as PART I then things are even easier than when registered under the small ships registry, because in that case there is a clear title on the boat.

I'm on my 3rd British Registered boat and I'm not British and things have always gone easily, the exception being one boat with U.S. papers that I re-registered under the U.K. flag - but those problems were due to issues on the U.S. side and not in the U.K.

Insurance on a U.K. flagged boat is usually quite simple to get. Pantaenius is a good option and will give you an idea of what the highest premiums are and then you can look for better offers.

So the question remains - where do you intend on keeping the boat? And must you re-flag it to the USA?

[Zanshin]

I should add that if you do buy the boat, it must be physically present in the U.K. at the time of sale if you want to keep the "VAT paid" status; if you intend on bringing it to the USA then that makes no difference.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

those problems were due to issues on the U.S. side and not in the U.K.

Absolutely. I've heard it's trivial to register a boat in the UK. Everything is harder and more expensive in the US.

[WaterTrails]

Thanks for all the good info, I once heard that it was difficult to import a boat into the US. I plan on cruising UK, Norway and the Med for a couple of years before I sail back to the US. I was also planning on not insuring, since the boats I'm looking at are less then $50k (probably will seek liability insurance). So it sounds like registering it in the UK (where the boats I'm looking at are located and currently registered). I'm hoping I can do that as an american, not living in the UK until I purchase the boat (liveaboard). Thanks for mentioning the VAT, I see it mentioned in boat ads but didn't know the implications.

One more question: does anyone know of a reputable UK Documentation Agent (to keep me from doing something stupid)?

[Pete7]

You don't need a document agent, it's all on the government website for free, though there is small costs for the registration. This assumes you have a UK address, a friend, possibly the marina but a UK address.

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register

The rules on VAT are about to get a shed load more complicated for UK boats when we leave the EU very shortly. At the moment no one really knows what is going to happen or the exact date.

As an American, you ought to be able to get a Temporary Admission for the boat to whats left of the EU for 18 months. However, you as an individual are likely to get 90 days in any 180 the key word is "schengen". Worth doing a search on CF because it has been covered regularly.

I am concerned you are not going to insure the boat. For a starters, most marinas require you have insurance, we are asked to prove it occasionally. Secondly if you make a mistake and damage someones boat or yours sinks you could be in for huge bills. Insurance in the UK is around £300 for £30k of value, perhaps a bit more if you extend the cruising area.

[Wendi]

I bought a Catamaran that was registered in Europe. I made a BVI corporation was about $1500, registered the boat with that corporation. No vat tax, no U.S. registration. I am a US citizen and it is legal to buy a yacht this way.
Insured it with Pantaneous. Also, you have the protection of the British Royal Navy.
Worked great!

[dfelsent]

I bought a uk boat. Sailed from Scotland to Southampton and shipped it to the us. I used a good documentation service.
Insurance for the uk leg was the biggest challenge. I needed a friends address, but my name. The insurance
Company required a Scottish local for the trip. And required two on board for loading on to the ship. The entire insurance process was done inside the UK.
Separate insurance for shipping and for US waters.
Both sensible requirements.
Documentation required a notary, or an appostille the appostille can be had by mail from the uk foreign office in London.
The documentation can be turned around rapidly if the boat is in transit. In my case the documentation arrived before the boat was unloaded from the ship.
Less than two weeks. Again the documentation agent.
The boat was in the UK SSR. She was formerly US Documented. More paper there.
Two months for all this sounds about right.

[jalmberg]

You need to be a UK resident to register a boat there. It’s literally in the first sentence on the SSR website.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by jalmberg

You need to be a UK resident to register a boat there. It’s literally in the first sentence on the SSR website.

Only Part III registration. Part I, the regular ship registry, which is highly preferable to Part III, is now open to U.S. citizens, since a year or so ago. You just need a "representative person" in the UK who is willing to let you use his address for official notices. This can be any friend in the UK, and probably you can rent this service as well.


The only even slightly complicated part of this is the tonnage survey, but if you ask around you will find someone who can do it. Otherwise the process is exceedingly simple and no agent is needed, as Pete7 said.


https://www.gov.uk/government/public...essel-msf-4727


As to insurance, I did not have any great difficulties insuring my UK registered boat, and the cost of insurance is something like 1/5 of what it is in the US. I have half a million of hull coverage and £5 million of liability insurance for about £1500 per year; through Pantaenius. A <£50k boat will cost peanuts to insure, I guess just several hundred a year. You will need at least liability insurance for cruising N Europe.

[Zanshin]

I think that Dockhead has nailed it. The Part I registry shows clear title when you decide to either sell it or import it to the USA, and liability-only insurance is easy to get and I used Pantaenius for years and I think it was somewhere between $100 and $200 per year and included the all of the important limitations that could get expensive quickly. Marinas only look for liability insurance, not comprehensive. I think that getting a RYA membership will also open up other avenues of insurance.
I did my tonnage survey in the BVI because the only accredited surveyor I found in the Annapolis region (where my boat, despite the UK flag, was initially commissioned) wanted to haul the boat out for the survey and that is not necessary. I got a letter of running/temporary registration from the nice people at the Registry until I handed in the tonnage survey and confirmed to them that the official number "O.N." plate was affixed to the boat, a week later I had my laminated full registration sent to me in the BVI.

From what I understand, doing a BVI registry by creating an IBC there has an annual $1000 charge, they also require a survey of their own and now have some additional costs for boat ownership, but it is a "Red Ensign" flag and thus enjoys those privileges. Another popular flag of convenience is Malta, but for 200GBP a year you can get an address at a "Mailboxes etc." in the U.K. and have them forward any correspondence to you wherever you might be.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Only Part III registration. Part I, the regular ship registry, which is highly preferable to Part III, is now open to U.S. citizens, since a year or so ago. You just need a "representative person" in the UK who is willing to let you use his address for official notices. This can be any friend in the UK, and probably you can rent this service as well.

For reference:

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register

So, if I understand it, you need Part III to 'go foreign' from the UK. Part I is for small boats that stay in the UK (i.e., the vast majority)?

-- John

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Only Part III registration. Part I, the regular ship registry, which is highly preferable to Part III, is now open to U.S. citizens, since a year or so ago. You just need a "representative person" in the UK who is willing to let you use his address for official notices. This can be any friend in the UK, and probably you can rent this service as well.

For reference:

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-boat/the-uk-ship-register

H'mmm. On reading the details for Part 1, it does seem like a possible option. Interesting...

-- John

[Zanshin]

jalmberg - Part I is the full registry, Part III is the small ships. Both types of registration are accepted outside of the U.K. You could have done a Part I registration on your boat, and the VAT-paid status would have been reverted to not-paid. I did exactly the same, purchased a small-ships-registry Jeanneau while in the BVI and converted it to Part I; I didn't know about the VAT part - as it turns out I later sold that boat to Americans so that ended up not making a difference.

Big ships and boats >24m have to be Part I as are any boats that have or need liens on them. The SSR is more for small boats that rarely leave the U.K. but need proof of ownership to clear into other countries.

I am curious as to what changes will occur with Brexit, as I'll be moving out of the U.K. and becoming a non-resident but would like to keep my boat flagged there.